The Brexit Thread (topical thread)

[Thingymebob]

Push notification says that Liz Truss is the new PM.

I forgot to put any link: https://www.cnn.com/uk/live-news/liz-tru...index.html

I saw that ... also saw her tossing out the praises to Boris.  I'm sure it was customary but, she is a climber.  

It's quite a precarious time - I have to wonder how the conservative party is going to fumble through it.  

By doing what they always do, looking after the fat cats and shitting on the working class from a great height.


Let's see how she plans to help families on low incomes to stay warm and fed this winter.

[Kim]

Damn. I tried to post a short vid of Her Maje Elizabeth herself, dancing to ABBA's Dancing Queen. But it wouldn't show. I suppose MI5 will be checking all my shit now.

Personally, I think she's probably just happy she won't have to deal with all these idiots much longer.

[Kim]

Don't know about anyone else but, I'm a huge fan of HIGNFY. I figured they'd do a special of some kind. Boris gets everything he deserves...

[Cavebear]

Don't know about anyone else but, I'm a huge fan of HIGNFY.  I figured they'd do a special of some kind.  Boris gets everything he deserves...

Boris will be a hole-in-the-ground of British history.  And our President Trump can go join him there too...

It is amazing how the US and Britain have similar political leaders.  Thatcher and Reagan, Clinton and Blair, The Donald and Boris.  Hey you Brits, try to pick a better one next time.  Oh wait, you might have.  

[Kim]

So, Liz Truss (the fighter, not the quiter) is resigning.  Six weeks.  Seems a bit hasty to me but, maybe it's just a shitty job.  

[Szuchow]

So, Liz Truss (the fighter, not the quiter) is resigning.  Six weeks.  Seems a bit hasty to me butmaybe it's just a shitty job.  

One shit stain less in power. Hard to feel anything but joy.

[Minimalist]

Doubtlessly to be replaced by another shitstain.  The problem is the Tories, not individual people. 

Britain is in deep shit.

[epronovost]

So, Liz Truss (the fighter, not the quiter) is resigning.  Six weeks.  Seems a bit hasty to me but, maybe it's just a shitty job.  

Frankly, it is indeed a shitty job. The psychodrama of both Brexit, COVID and now the post COVID crisis makes the Torie government unstabble. I don't have high hopes for the next leader. He or she will also be a sacrificial lamb.

[Cavebear]

So, Liz Truss (the fighter, not the quiter) is resigning.  Six weeks.  Seems a bit hasty to me but, maybe it's just a shitty job.  

I'll be darned. The head of lettuce did outlast Truss!

One news station said her PM reign was the shortest in British history; another said 301 years (which seems pretty specific, so I will go with that without checking further - but does it really matter?). Either way, that was impressively short! I love the idea that they might get Boris back.

[Aractus]

Boris will be a hole-in-the-ground of British history.

No he won't. His predecessor Theresa May was incompetent, before that it was David Cameron and he idiotically committed hari-kari by staking his political future on the outcome of the EU referendum. After Boris was Liz Truss who was beyond incompetent and a brazen crook. Fast Lizzy has destroyed the Tories in the same way that Jeremy Corbyn did with Labour but it's even worse than how Corbyn left Labour really because Keir to his credit has somewhat repaired the party now. Oh and don't forget the alternative to a Johnson government was a Corbyn government and that would have been a complete disaster for the world.

Boris fixed the Brexit mess he inherited, re-unified the Tory party, and left it in far better shape than he found it when he took over from May. He was perfectly competent for the job, but he had a dreadful character and in the end the greased piglet couldn't slip his way out of all his scandals that brought the office of no 10 into disrepute. Sure he'll go down in history for that, but alongside May and Fast Lizzy his government looked more competent. Also worth mentioning here is that Boris actually set about implementing the agenda that he campaigned on, Fast Lizzy didn't. She pulled a fast one, that's why the markets crashed because they were blindsided by the swindler. And then instead of taking responsibility she fired her chancellor for enacting her policies.

The small Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party has been a long and divisive problem for them starting in the 90's wen the ERG was set up. The ERG was an ongoing problem for the Tories. Who knows what they're going to demand now from the next government, and they're going to be emboldened now to tear it down if they don't get their way.

Boris is going to run again, so watch out. He could be back from his political grave and be given the keys to no 10 in a matter of days.

[Cavebear]

Boris will be a hole-in-the-ground of British history.

No he won't. His predecessor Theresa May was incompetent, before that it was David Cameron and he idiotically committed hari-kari by staking his political future on the outcome of the EU referendum. After Boris was Liz Truss who was beyond incompetent and a brazen crook. Fast Lizzy has destroyed the Tories in the same way that Jeremy Corbyn did with Labour but it's even worse than how Corbyn left Labour really because Keir to his credit has somewhat repaired the party now. Oh and don't forget the alternative to a Johnson government was a Corbyn government and that would have been a complete disaster for the world.

Boris fixed the Brexit mess he inherited, re-unified the Tory party, and left it in far better shape than he found it when he took over from May. He was perfectly competent for the job, but he had a dreadful character and in the end the greased piglet couldn't slip his way out of all his scandals that brought the office of no 10 into disrepute. Sure he'll go down in history for that, but alongside May and Fast Lizzy his government looked more competent. Also worth mentioning here is that Boris actually set about implementing the agenda that he campaigned on, Fast Lizzy didn't. She pulled a fast one, that's why the markets crashed because they were blindsided by the swindler. And then instead of taking responsibility she fired her chancellor for enacting her policies.

The small Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party has been a long and divisive problem for them starting in the 90's wen the ERG was set up. The ERG was an ongoing problem for the Tories. Who knows what they're going to demand now from the next government, and they're going to be emboldened now to tear it down if they don't get their way.

Boris is going to run again, so watch out. He could be back from his political grave and be given the keys to no 10 in a matter of days.

My quote about Boris The Nutso was accurate at the time. He was always a loose peg. I stand by that now. His wretched personal activities quite rightfully resulted in his removal from office. If you want him back, that is your business.

But as bad as US politics has become, you Brits are doing worse. I am sad about that. It would be nice to have Our Favorite Other Nation give us a bit of an example of how to do things right. Your last couple of PMs have not exectly been "sterling" (if you will forgive a pun). We here expect better of you.

Yeah, you could get Boris back. I offer you my condolences. We might get Trump back in 2024 and my head almost implodes at the horror of that. Sometimes I think the West is failing and we need a hobbit or an Aragorn.

Brexit will probably go down in history as one of the dumbest decisions since Arthur attacked Lancelot in France or the 100 Years War. OK, maybe Gallipoli...

[Aractus]

In terms of the EU referendum, don't forget that was David Cameron's idiotic policy. What this proves is three things:

Firstly governments should not hold referendums on a question that they don't support or which doesn't at least have strong parliamentary support. Secondly governments should develop a clear model for what the policy will look like, generally this greatly increases the chances that the referendum will be successful because otherwise there's a lot of room for doubt over the details of what people are voting for, and the “no” side will always use that doubt (i.e. “it isn't broken so leave it as it is”). Thirdly you pick the most ideal time to run the referendum, that is when you think the public supports your policy idea.

Cameron ignored the first rule. He actually did heed the second guideline but for Remain as that was the side his government was supporting: he negotiated further concessions from the EU and took them to the people, but as it turned out he didn't get enough concessions to satisfy enough voters. On the third point he promised an in-out referendum in 2013, and again in May 2014 when he made it an election promise - a cast iron guarantee that he would hold a referendum if the Tories were returned. The political reality in May 2014 was Remain should have easily won, that's why he made the promise then because he knew he would win at that time. But he delayed the referendum allowing Leave to garner support. Significantly later in May 2014 (after Cameron's cast-iron guarantee to hold an in-out referendum) for the European Parliament election UKIP got the largest vote of any UK party at 27.5%.

None of this was a good idea if his policy was to remain in the EU. Here's a list of mistakes Cameron made:

1. Promised a referendum over a question the government nor the parliament supported.
   
2. Promised reform of the EU but his re-negotiation fell short.
   
3. Held the referendum at the height of Euroscepticism.
   
4. Did not have a clear policy about how to deliver Brexit - this would lead to over 3 years of non-stop infighting and chaos in the government. He did say in the campaign that voting to leave meant “leaving all the EU institutions” but that was a politically-charged fear-based campaign message as it was a warning and didn't provide clarity over what they would be replaced with.
   
5. Staked his future as PM on the outcome.
   
6. Resigned without delivering Brexit leaving behind chaos.
   
7. He also told lies in the campaign, but everyone does that.
   

After he left the office of no 10 the Tories bizarrely put in a Europhile and one that wasn't very capable. The reason why May didn't deliver Brexit is simple: she did not have a clear, positive, vision for how to deliver it and worse still the left-biased media from the BBC and others were rewriting history on an Orwellian scale. They created the narrative that people didn't vote to leave all the EU's institutions, they claimed that because people didn't understand every single aspect of how leaving the EU would be delivered that it invalidated what they voted for, and on and on their condescending self-indulgent nauseating rhetoric would go. It was so blatantly Orwellian that Leave voters rightly felt it was condescending. I think that a lot of people in the media believed their own rhetoric, as did many MPs in Westminster.

[c172]

Yup, Twitter has BoJo running again. fml....or at least fbpl

[Aractus]

My quote about Boris The Nutso was accurate at the time.  He was always a loose peg.  I stand by that now.  His wretched personal activities quite rightfully resulted in his removal from office.  If you want him back, that is your business.

But as bad as US politics has become, you Brits are doing worse.  I am sad about that.  It would be nice to have Our Favorite Other Nation give us a bit of an example of how to do things right.  Your last couple of PMs have not exectly been "sterling" (if you will forgive a pun).  We here expect better of you.

Yeah, you could get Boris back.  I offer you my condolences.  We might get Trump back in 2024 and my head almost implodes at the horror of that.  Sometimes I think the West is failing and we need a hobbit or an Aragorn.

Brexit will probably go down in history as one of the dumbest decisions since Arthur attacked Lancelot in France or the 100 Years War.  OK, maybe Gallipoli...

I'm not British, we have Mr Potato Head who wants to be the next prime minister here:



He'd last longer than a lettuce, however his predecessor burned the joint down and basically betrayed all the liberals in the Liberal party such that their seats are now held by Teal Independents. As I tried to warn people, he was far worse than the greased piglet or Trump. The Coalition now faces I'd say at least 10 years in the wilderness because I don't see how they can win without their liberals. The Teals took 10 seats (plus Pocock in the Senate but that's different as he was up against a very conservative incumbent and he ran his own campaign that was very different to the lower-house Teals) including Dave Sharma, Josh Frydenberg, and Trent Zimmerman and they represented three of the most competent liberals left in the party. It should be Frydenberg not mr potato head as leader, but because they lost all their competent liberals who were leadership material they elected the vegetable you see above in a recent photo posing with his family.

Brexit was inevitable, it was always going to happen eventually due to the political direction that the EU has been going in. I've pointed this out before, John Curtice one of the UK's leading election gurus has pointed it out as well. They want to be an open free-trading country now like Australia and EU membership was holding them back. Of course they're at least 30 years behind us on free trade, and all the large trade deals take a VERY long time to achieve. The US isn't even negotiating with them at the moment, and that pause is likely to extend until the end of Biden administration, plus the Americans want to see a solid and stable arrangement set in Northern Ireland.

Speaking of Curtice as he points out here in peer review, one of the things that happened in 2019 was that the Tories had adapted to the politics of Brexit but Labour had failed to adapt to the politics of Brexit. In fact it wasn't just Tory and Labour, that divide was quite clear: the SNP adapted to the politics (in the negative), the Liberal Democrats didn't and like Labour they faced electoral wipe-out as a result. The Lib Dems came out against Brexit and for a second referendum but that clearly wasn't what their voters wanted.

[Deesse23]

Boy, what would I do without Aractusplaining of UK politics.

[Cavebear]

My quote about Boris The Nutso was accurate at the time.  He was always a loose peg.  I stand by that now.  His wretched personal activities quite rightfully resulted in his removal from office.  If you want him back, that is your business.

But as bad as US politics has become, you Brits are doing worse.  I am sad about that.  It would be nice to have Our Favorite Other Nation give us a bit of an example of how to do things right.  Your last couple of PMs have not exectly been "sterling" (if you will forgive a pun).  We here expect better of you.

Yeah, you could get Boris back.  I offer you my condolences.  We might get Trump back in 2024 and my head almost implodes at the horror of that.  Sometimes I think the West is failing and we need a hobbit or an Aragorn.

Brexit will probably go down in history as one of the dumbest decisions since Arthur attacked Lancelot in France or the 100 Years War.  OK, maybe Gallipoli...

I'm not British, we have Mr Potato Head who wants to be the next prime minister here:



He'd last longer than a lettuce, however his predecessor burned the joint down and basically betrayed all the liberals in the Liberal party such that their seats are now held by Teal Independents. As I tried to warn people, he was far worse than the greased piglet or Trump. The Coalition now faces I'd say at least 10 years in the wilderness because I don't see how they can win without their liberals. The Teals took 10 seats (plus Pocock in the Senate but that's different as he was up against a very conservative incumbent and he ran his own campaign that was very different to the lower-house Teals) including Dave Sharma, Josh Frydenberg, and Trent Zimmerman and they represented three of the most competent liberals left in the party. It should be Frydenberg not mr potato head as leader, but because they lost all their competent liberals who were leadership material they elected the vegetable you see above in a recent photo posing with his family.

Brexit was inevitable, it was always going to happen eventually due to the political direction that the EU has been going in. I've pointed this out before, John Curtice one of the UK's leading election gurus has pointed it out as well. They want to be an open free-trading country now like Australia and EU membership was holding them back. Of course they're at least 30 years behind us on free trade, and all the large trade deals take a VERY long time to achieve. The US isn't even negotiating with them at the moment, and that pause is likely to extend until the end of Biden administration, plus the Americans want to see a solid and stable arrangement set in Northern Ireland.

Speaking of Curtice as he points out here in peer review, one of the things that happened in 2019 was that the Tories had adapted to the politics of Brexit but Labour had failed to adapt to the politics of Brexit. In fact it wasn't just Tory and Labour, that divide was quite clear: the SNP adapted to the politics (in the negative), the Liberal Democrats didn't and like Labour they faced electoral wipe-out as a result. The Lib Dems came out against Brexit and for a second referendum but that clearly wasn't what their voters wanted.

First, I gather you are English, not British. I get the difference (if I am correct). If not, enlighten me further.

OK, second, what is a "Teal"? I have never seen that term before other than as a color.

Third, I suppose I should have said "English". It's just that, for all my life, "English" and "British" have been about the same. I acknowledge the difference, but habit is hard to overcome.

Fourth, that's why it was called "Brexit", not "Englexit". LOL!

[Vera]

Apparently Bozo's flying home from the Caribbean to save Britain once again.

Hence this on Greg Egan's twitter:





(Also, I wish this thread wasn't quite so mired in Aractus's verbal excreta )

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Euro referendum has poisoned British politics for at least a generation.

[Minimalist]

Yup.... elections DO have consequences.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yup.... elections DO have consequences.

We Americans learned the same lesson at around the same time.

[Aractus]

First, I gather you are English, not British.  I get the difference (if I am correct).  If not, enlighten me further.

OK, second, what is a "Teal"?  I have never seen that term before other than as a color.

I'm 'Strayan!!

BTW Truss was instrumental in getting our bilateral FTA signed and it was to be fast-tracked for enactment under her government, but it's so far along now that there's really no chance of Poms screwing us. Each-way Albo (our prime minister) gave an interview where he talked about our FTA with the UK and how he had discussions with Truss to fast-track it and get it operational and that now he'll be dealing with the 3rd UK prime minister since he was elected to office earlier this year.

Albo is top dog of the centre-left ALP, Dutto (the potato) is the head of the centre-right Liberals but the previous prime minister has totally destroyed the Liberal party and they will face a decade in opposition because of single-handedly tearing apart the party. He doesn't stand for anything, hence why he's known to his friends as each-way Albo. Several of the key small-l liberals (the more moderate ones typically representing inner-city seats) were ousted by Teal Independents who are not real independents but are clueless hacks that relied on the funding of Climate 2000 in order to secure support and run their campaigns. That was the case in the House of Reps as I mentioned David Pocock who ran for the Senate here was a special case - he did get Climate 2000 funding but the guy had organised something like 2,000+ volenteers and he ran a very good campaign, plus of course he's in the Senate not the House of Reps which means he can actually affect legislation whereas cumulative effect of the lower-house teals is simply that the took seats away from other lower house moderates, mostly from the Coalition who as I explained lost several key small-l liberals like Josh Frydenberg. It should be Frydenberg who is leader of the opposition right now not Dutto the dud.

Albo's latest brain-fart idea was to rescind Australia's recognition of West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It angered a Jewish  in his own party.

[Minimalist]

At this point I'm pretty sure the E.U. is glad Britain is gone!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/17/world...onomy.html

[color=var(--color-content-primary,#121212)]Facing Recession, U.K. Outlines Billions in Tax Increases and Spending Cuts[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The government is betting that the plan will put public finances back on sound footing but acknowledges that the measures are likely to deepen the economic misery for Britons.[/color]

[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]Seeking to restore Britain’s fiscal credibility after a calamitous foray into trickle-down economics, the British government on Thursday announced tens of billions of pounds of tax increases and spending cuts that officials promised would plug a gaping hole in the nation’s public finances.[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The chancellor of the Exchequer, Jeremy Hunt, detailed a raft of higher taxes, worth 25 billion pounds, or about $29.7 billion, and cuts to government programs, saving £30 billion. Together, it amounted to one of the most austere budgets ever imposed on Britain, a country that is already in a recession.[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The plan’s immediate goal was to reduce a public deficit swollen by vast payouts during the coronavirus pandemic and the energy crisis. But the budget was also an act of fiscal penitence after the sweeping tax cuts rolled out in September by the last prime minister, Liz Truss. Those proposals roiled the markets, caused the pound to crash and cost Ms. Truss her job a few weeks later.[/color]
[color=var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)]The remedy prescribed by Mr. Hunt and his boss, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, will be economically and politically painful, though many of the spending cuts do not kick in for two years. It will raise taxes on tens of millions of Britons, who will suddenly find themselves in a higher tax bracket, and effectively cut funding for the Defense Ministry, foreign aid, and cultural institutions in London.[/color]

[Minimalist]

Two years on and Brexit is proving to be a disaster. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/24/economy/b...index.html

Brexit has cracked Britain’s economic foundations

London CNN  — 
It’s been two years since former Prime Minister Boris Johnson signed his Brexit trade deal and triumphantly declared that Britain would be “prosperous, dynamic and contented” after completing its exit from the European Union.
The Brexit deal would enable UK companies to “do even more business” with the European Union, according to Johnson, and would leave Britain free to strike trade deals around the world while continuing to export seamlessly to the EU market of 450 million consumers.
In reality, Brexit has hobbled the UK economy, which remains the only member of the G7 — the group of advanced economies that also includes Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States — with an economy smaller than it was before the pandemic.
Years of uncertainty over the future trading relationship with the European Union, Britain’s largest trading partner, have damaged business investment, which in the third quarter was 8% below pre-pandemic levels despite a UK-EU trade deal being in place for nearly two years.
And the pound has taken a beating, making imports more expensive and stoking inflation while failing to boost exports, even as other parts of the world have enjoyed a post-pandemic trade boom.

The ultimate in self-inflicted wounds!

[Deesse23]

London CNN  — 
It’s been two years since former Prime Minister Boris Johnson signed his Brexit trade deal and triumphantly declared that Britain would be “prosperous, dynamic and contented” after completing its exit from the European Union.
The Brexit deal would enable UK companies to “do even more business” with the European Union, according to Johnson, and would leave Britain free to strike trade deals around the world while continuing to export seamlessly to the EU market of 450 million consumers.

....and free BJs for everyone, right?

[Minimalist]

That clown didn't last long, did he?