The Damned Cops Are Out Of Control

[Minimalist]

Just one of 110,000,000, huh?  Hardly worth mentioning.

Why I'm surprised his family even bothered to sue the motherfuckers.

[WhiskeyDebates]

Just one of 110,000,000, huh?  Hardly worth mentioning.

Why I'm surprised his family even bothered to sue the motherfuckers.

You know good and fucking well the point he was making, this kinda nonsense is beneath you Min.

[Minimalist]

He always makes the same point.  The cops "only"kill 1000+ people a year and what does that matter when there are 330,000,000 people in the country. 

I don't buy his math.  Each death matters.

If you don't agree, that's your problem.

[WhiskeyDebates]

He always makes the same point.  The cops "only"kill 1000+ people a year and what does that matter when there are 330,000,000 people in the country. 

Show me where he said the bolded. That is a complete mischaracterization of what he said, to the point of being malicious and deliberate, as he never said anything close to that at all.

You accused him of playing "statistical games" (which seems to be in actuality just ....stating statistics. I'd love to see where the game part is...) so he gave you a statistic, one that is relevant to the topic under discussion. You don't dispute the numbers, what you do is try to superimpose your strawman onto him. He makes no argument that they don't matter, you make that assertion on his behalf, he makes no argument that because the odds are 1/110,000,000 that the 1 is hardly worth mentioning when it happens, you make that assertion on his behalf. You are attributing malice where none exists.

The fact that the odds are insanely low doesn't make it any less tragic when it does happen, and the fact that it does happen doesn't change the actual data, and that data is that your odds of being killed by police are statistically insignificant. Even the totality of all negative police interactions is less than a percent of all interactions.

I don't buy his math.  Each death matters.

This reads like "fuck your data, my outrage is is what's important". Each death matters, but that doesn't mean it's a springboard to castigate a group of people as "out of control". His math, as he has actually expressed it and not with the implications you have assigned to it, is factually correct. 99.1ish% of people in America will never have anything but positive interactions with police, and thus your assertion that they are out of control is nonsensical and not supported by fact.

That isn't the only instance of this either, as earlier in the thread you make a comparison between UK police and US police as if it had any merit whatsoever (it has very little if any) and in the same post actively look down your nose on anyone who might bring actual data to the discussion. You seem, at least to me, far far far more interested in your emotional standing on the issue than what the facts actually are.

If you don't agree, that's your problem.

I agree with the premise that each death matters and that each death should be investigated, however, I don't agree with your over the top conclusions for a number of reasons.

Doctors kill somewhere between 250 to 440 times the number of people (250,000- 440,000) every year in the course of doing their job. Are doctors outta control?

[SYZ]

I couldn't get that link to work...

Try this:  https://www[dot]sbs[dot]com[dot]au/news/us-police-who-shot-justine-damond-had-issues-court-documents    

The killer cop, black Muslim Mohamed Noor, has been charged in Minneapolis with 3rd-degree
murder and manslaughter of the victim Justine Damond. I mention his religion as relevant
simply because it's been acknowledged that Muslim males have very little respect for
(particularity) white females—who they consider should be subservient, are inferior, and should
never question a male's authority.

Off-topic I know, but UK journalist Jessica McCallin who's worked in the Middle East says that
"when we were in Turkey, dark-haired Western women suffered significantly less harassment
and we concluded that this was happening because we were pale and blonde".

She also said that her male Muslim friends later confirmed that many of their peers consider
all Western women "whores".

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Just one of 110,000,000, huh?  Hardly worth mentioning.

Why I'm surprised his family even bothered to sue the motherfuckers.

You know good and fucking well the point he was making, this kinda nonsense is beneath you Min.

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

He always makes the same point.  The cops "only"kill 1000+ people a year and what does that matter when there are 330,000,000 people in the country. 

I don't buy his math.  Each death matters.

If you don't agree, that's your problem.

You can't do the math evidently. Internet furorista.

[WhiskeyDebates]

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

[Dr H]

Are all police bad? Of course not. That's a silly question. But the ones who are should be called out and I'm okay with that. It's a thread here just like any other.

Looks like time to haul out one of my favorite Bukowski quotes:

" ...when a man puts that uniform on that he is the paid protector of things of the present time. he is here to see that things stay the way they are. if you like the way things are, then all cops are good cops. if you don't like the way things are, then all cops are bad cops."

-- Charles Bukowski, "Notes on the Pest"

[Vera]

Are all police bad? Of course not. That's a silly question. But the ones who are should be called out and I'm okay with that. It's a thread here just like any other.

Looks like time to haul out one of my favorite Bukowski quotes:

" ...when a man puts that uniform on that he is the paid protector of things of the present time. he is here to see that things stay the way they are. if you like the way things are, then all cops are good cops. if you don't like the way things are, then all cops are bad cops."

-- Charles Bukowski, "Notes on the Pest"

Sadly, while there is truth in it, it's more complicated than this...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

Show me.

[Dr H]

Are all police bad? Of course not. That's a silly question. But the ones who are should be called out and I'm okay with that. It's a thread here just like any other.

Looks like time to haul out one of my favorite Bukowski quotes:

" ...when a man puts that uniform on that he is the paid protector of things of the present time. he is here to see that things stay the way they are. if you like the way things are, then all cops are good cops. if you don't like the way things are, then all cops are bad cops."

-- Charles Bukowski, "Notes on the Pest"

Sadly, while there is truth in it, it's more complicated than this...

Unfortunately, yes.  

On the one hand I have friends who are cops.

On the other, there are far too many incidents like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and especially this -- to make me entirely sanguine with their choice of profession.  There have been a steady stream of incidents like this, going back as far as I can recall.  

On the one hand a policeman once prevented what almost certainly would have been a physical assault on my person.  

On the other, I've been slammed facedown on the hood of a police car and handcuffed, because the police didn't think I should have been in the part of town they found me, at a particular time of day, and didn't like my (legitimate) explanation.

Clearly there are some issues here that require addressing.  First and foremost, the police need to police themselves.  But too often, they don't.  
Citizen's review boards have been established in a number of communities, including my own, in response to incidents like this.  Their formation is almost universally opposed by the police.  

Incidents like the examples above do far more damage than just to the unfortunate individual involved and their family.  They undermine community trust in the police, call their mission into question, and make both police and citizens less safe, and communities less secure, as a result.

[Joods]

Are all police bad? Of course not. That's a silly question. But the ones who are should be called out and I'm okay with that. It's a thread here just like any other.

Looks like time to haul out one of my favorite Bukowski quotes:

" ...when a man puts that uniform on that he is the paid protector of things of the present time. he is here to see that things stay the way they are. if you like the way things are, then all cops are good cops. if you don't like the way things are, then all cops are bad cops."

-- Charles Bukowski, "Notes on the Pest"

Totally not even close to what I said.

[Old Man Marsh]

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

People in glass houses shouldn't complain about the lack of insulation.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

People in glass houses shouldn't complain about the lack of insulation.

Or too much Leelee.

[WhiskeyDebates]

No, it's not. It's pure Min.

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

Show me.

Show you what?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Glass houses Gawdzilla, Glass houses.

Show me.

Show you what?

Show me what the fuck WhiskeyDebates is claiming I was doing.

[WhiskeyDebates]

Show me.

Show you what?

Show me what the fuck WhiskeyDebates is claiming I was doing.

Oh sorry, I thought it was clear. Hypocrisy, we have had exchanges in the past, specifically over gun control, on the old forum and you have made posts, not all that dissimilar to Mins in this thread. Obviously, this is this and that is that but my point was to just say that those kinds of comments don't really push the conversation forward.

[Minimalist]

I don't really have a problem with G/S on this.  He just thinks the cops should be allowed a certain number of free murders as long as they do not exceed his daily 1 for 110,000,000 threshold.

I disagree with him.

[WhiskeyDebates]

He just thinks the cops should be allowed a certain number of free murders as long as they do not exceed his daily 1 for 110,000,000 threshold.

*sigh* 

If you can't defend your position without resorting to lying your position lacks merit. You are being maliciously dishonest.

[Alan V]

It should be clear from this discussion and others which Minimalist has started that he thinks anecdotes prove larger points. The reason to point to the statistics is to show that anecdotes do not prove larger points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

So if Min wants to make his points, he should refer to statistics (if he has any supporting his points). So let's say he had a link to back up this assertion:

American cops killed 1,000+ people last year.

British cops killed 1.

No[w] we can hear all about the population difference from the math types.

This is on the right track, but it doesn't prove cops are out of control. It may prove that a population (including police) with more firearms are more likely to get shot by police in ambiguous situations. But even that depends on the details.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Show you what?

Show me what the fuck WhiskeyDebates is claiming I was doing.

Oh sorry, I thought it was clear. Hypocrisy, we have had exchanges in the past, specifically over gun control, on the old forum and you have made posts, not all that dissimilar to Mins in this thread. Obviously, this is this and that is that but my point was to just say that those kinds of comments don't really push the conversation forward.

Okay, so you won't/can't show me. 30

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I don't really have a problem with G/S on this.  He just thinks the cops should be allowed a certain number of free murders as long as they do not exceed his daily 1 for 110,000,000 threshold.

I disagree with him.

This is a Min thread.

[SYZ]

On the other, I've been slammed facedown on the hood of a police car and handcuffed, because the police didn't think I should have been in the part of town they found me, at a particular time of day, and didn't like my (legitimate) explanation....

Can I ask what exactly was your "legitimate explanation", and what prompted the police to
treat you as a dangerous criminal? Normally, this sort of police treatment is only warranted by
an uncooperative individual. Whatever, a story with no substance hardly makes for a convincing
debate about alleged police brutality.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Argumentum via Anecdotum. /bastardized Latin.