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Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
#1

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
but they do seem to keep getting wrapped up in these scandals.  Probably from being too eager to prove that their horseshit has some relevance.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52692846

Gilgamesh tablet: Bid to confiscate artefact from Museum of the Bible


US prosecutors are seeking to confiscate a rare ancient tablet from a Christian museum co-founded by the president of retailer Hobby Lobby.

The 3,500-year-old artefact, from what is now Iraq, bears text from the Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the world's oldest works of literature.

Prosecutors allege that an auction house deliberately withheld information about its origins.

Hobby Lobby said it was co-operating with government investigations.

It bought the tablet from the auction house in a private sale in 2014 for $1.67m (£1.36m) for display at the Museum of the Bible in Washington.

I don't have any use for those jesus-freak Hobby Lobby clowns but they do seem to be the victim of a scam. Of course it is equally possible that they merely winked and nodded at the assurances they were given.

P.S. The absolutely last place I would send a valuable historical artifact back to is Iraq!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#2

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Wonder if anyone thought to write a list of what was stolen in '91.
They would have been well aware they were buying smuggled items and came up with blatant BS to excuse themselves.
That makes me suspect they knew they were about to be rumbled and trying to cover their arses with the 'clarification request'.
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#3

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Same thing happened in Egypt.  There, at least, the Egyptian Antiquites Ministry had catalogued much of it.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#4

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Doesn't surprise me, Apart from Tutankhamun nothing's in a case.
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#5

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 01:07 AM)Mr Greene Wrote: Doesn't surprise me, Apart from Tutankhamun nothing's in a case.

Tutankamun's "nothing" isn't is a case either. 
His wee-wee was stolen at some point. 
Tongue
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#6

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Why would Hobby Lobby or their Fundy Bible place be interested in a tablet that basically proves their Bible flood myth, is not original ?
Maybe they didn't know what it even is, OR maybe the Bible Museum is just a front for dealing illegal antiquities.
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#7

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Because they have convinced themselves that their stupid, fucking, bible far pre-dates the Babylonian account.  They think the Babylonians stole the idea from them!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#8

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 02:11 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Because they have convinced themselves that their stupid, fucking, bible far pre-dates the Babylonian account.  They think the Babylonians stole the idea from them!

LOL
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#9

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Wasn't Noah a reincarnation of Gilgamesh?

Maybe I'm mixing things.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#10

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Yes but even Gilgamesh was the third version of the tale that went back to Early Bronze Age times in Mesopotamia.  Before Gilgamesh was the Akkadian,  Atrahasis and the even earlier Ziusudra from Sumer.

Meanwhile, the proto-Israelites didn't even begin to coalesce until about 1200 BC in the backwoods of Canaan.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#11

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 12:21 AM)Minimalist Wrote: I don't have any use for those jesus-freak Hobby Lobby clowns but they do seem to be the victim of a scam. Of course it is equally possible that they merely winked and nodded at the assurances they were given.

This has been discussed at length on /r/academicbiblical, they're not victims of anything. At the same time though they willing chose not to do due diligence as private collectors, even refusing the expert advice they were given (for example the advice from Patty Gerstenblith). So it is a positive step that HL is cooperating fully with repatriation, but since there's very unlikely to be any criminal prosecutions this won't dissuade other private collectors with deep pockets from continuing to fuel to black market of antiquities.

For more information I suggest the following resources:
All four of the above people have provided invaluable investigative efforts (see Candida Moss's twitter thread on the Castle Folio for example). From Moss's article:

“In March, the Wall Street Journal ran an article about how Steve Green, the CEO of Hobby Lobby and President of Museum of the Bible, plans to return 11,500 illicit Iraqi and Egyptian artifacts currently owned by the company or museum to their countries of origin. Among this vast collection of undocumented items that the museum was voluntarily returning is the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet an ancient clay tablet that, among other things, records part of history’s oldest creation story. One detail Green left out of the story? The tablet had been seized on September 24, 2019 by the Department of Homeland Security and Homeland Security Investigations. Now, Hobby Lobby wants the $1.6 million it spent on the tablet back.”

Good luck with that. I can just imagine the court case now, with Patty Gerstenblith in court giving evidence that she clearly advised the Greens not to purchase un-provenanced antiquities from Iraq because, well we can in fact quote from her own memo written 19 Oct 2010 as quoted in a 2017 district court complaint (Patty is cited in the complaint as "the Expert"):

“I would regard the acquisition of any artifact likely from Iraq (which could be described as Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Parthian, Sassanian and possibly other historic or cultural terms) as carrying considerable risk. An estimated 200-500,000 objects have been looted from archaeological sites in Iraq since the early 1990s; particularly popular on the market and likely to have been looted are cylinder seals, cuneiform tablets . . . . Any object brought into the US and with Iraq declared as country of origin has a high chance of being detained by US Customs. If such an object has been brought into the US in the past few years and was not stopped by US Customs, then you need to examine the import documents to see if the country of origin was properly declared; an improper declaration of country of origin can also lead to seizure and forfeiture of the object.”


Still sound like HL is "probably the victim"?
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#12

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 02:11 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Because they have convinced themselves that their stupid, fucking, bible far pre-dates the Babylonian account.  They think the Babylonians stole the idea from them!

I've actually had a theist make that claim as a straight statement of 'fact'... Facepalm
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#13

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 12:21 AM)Minimalist Wrote: P.S. The absolutely last place I would send a valuable historical artifact back to is Iraq!

So, to spin this thought a little bit further, the looters were right to rob the museum at Bagdad in 2003? I wonder how many "private collections" in the USA sport items from that robbery.
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#14

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
"parts of the epic mirror stories from the Old Testament, such as the Garden of Eden" - wouldn't it be more correct to phrase it as "parts of the Old Testament mirrors stories form the Epic of Gilgamesh"? Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#15

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 02:02 PM)abaris Wrote:
(05-21-2020, 12:21 AM)Minimalist Wrote: P.S. The absolutely last place I would send a valuable historical artifact back to is Iraq!

So, to spin this thought a little bit further, the looters were right to rob the museum at Bagdad in 2003? I wonder how many "private collections" in the USA sport items from that robbery.


After what the Taliban did to the Bamyan statues and Isis did to Palmyra it does not appear that these muslim shits value history.  So while the original crime is a crime so would sending an irreplaceable piece of history back to a nation which is full of thieves, looters, and vandals.  Sorry, Abs, not buying it.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#16

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 02:05 PM)Vera Wrote: "parts of the epic mirror stories from the Old Testament, such as the Garden of Eden" - wouldn't it be more correct to phrase it as "parts of the Old Testament mirrors stories form the Epic of Gilgamesh"?  Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Of course.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#17

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
Quote:Still sound like HL is "probably the victim"?


I don't know, Danny.  I regard all religitards as lying fools so it really doesn't bother me to see a bunch of jesus freaks hoist on their own petard.  How many pieces of the "true cross" are scattered all over Europe?  How many heads did John the Baptist have, anyway.  How many foreskins did fucking jesus have? 

Having a bunch of real sanctimonious shits like the Green family get ripped off doesn't bother me.  There are far more important things than one more dumbass xhristard in the world.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#18

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 01:55 PM)Mr Greene Wrote:
(05-21-2020, 02:11 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Because they have convinced themselves that their stupid, fucking, bible far pre-dates the Babylonian account.  They think the Babylonians stole the idea from them!

I've actually had a theist make that claim as a straight statement of 'fact'... Facepalm

Actually we know FROM the Bible, (one of the very few historical facts) ... in the OT, that the "Torah of Moses" was introduced to the Hebrews in a "Fall Festival" (it was NEVER ONCE mentioned before, historically, by ANYONE, not by the Hebrews, not by ANYONE), as described in the Book of Nehemiah. Ezra brought back with him two things, from "Exile" ... 1. The document from Artaxerxes that said the king would rule Israel IN HIS NAME, (the Persian emperor is responsible for the existence of Israel ... not any god, known as the "Persian Imperative" by historians), and 2. the Torah of Moses, which was assembled in Babylon by the Judean priests. There is NO EVIDENCE anywhere, by anyone, that there was in existence either in an oral tradition, or any written form, any "Bible text", before that.
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#19

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-21-2020, 01:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(05-21-2020, 01:07 AM)Mr Greene Wrote: Doesn't surprise me, Apart from Tutankhamun nothing's in a case.

Tutankamun's "nothing" isn't is a case either. 
His wee-wee was stolen at some point. 
Tongue
No doubt the their thought a mummy daddy part would make someone a mommy. Winking
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#20

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
That's actually part of the Osiris-Isis myth.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Osiris-Egyptian-god

Quote:According to the form of the myth reported by the Greek author Plutarch, Osiris was slain or drowned by Seth, who tore the corpse into 14 pieces and flung them over Egypt. Eventually, Isis and her sister Nephthys found and buried all the pieces, except the phallus, thereby giving new life to Osiris, who thenceforth remained in the underworld as ruler and judge. His son Horus successfully fought against Seth, avenging Osiris and becoming the new king of Egypt.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#21

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
(05-23-2020, 02:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Ezra brought back with him two things, from "Exile" ... 1. The document from Artaxerxes that said the king would rule Israel IN HIS NAME, (the Persian emperor is responsible for the existence of Israel ... not any god, known as the "Persian Imperative" by historians), and 2. the Torah of Moses, which was assembled in Babylon by the Judean priests. There is NO EVIDENCE anywhere, by anyone, that there was in existence either in an oral tradition, or any written form, any "Bible text", before that.

Which Artaxerxes are we referring to?
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#22

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
If you ever want to hear the story of how the Epic of Gilgamesh tablets came into the British Museum's hands  (all while being highly entertained) watch this wonderful lecture from Professor Irving Finkel, PhD.     And if you ever want to know more about how the "ark" was built he tells about that too. Hint: It's not what you think.  He's is himself a British national treasure.  He's an atheist but never bashes religion.  I think he gets his super inteligence from his amazing beard.  Big Grin   This guy should live forever. 




He is also an expert on cuniform writing and teaches some of the basics of it in videos.  He cracked the code to one of the oldest known board games.  He's a very fun guy. I'm always glad to see his videos have a high viewer-ship.  Gives me hope. 


                                                         T4618
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#23

Hobby Lobby Is Probably The Victim Here....
An interesting blog from Bart Ehrman that goes after the Hobby Lobby shits and other fraudsters.

When I get some time I intend to read the whole article he references but Bart is spot on with this.

https://ehrmanblog.org/academic-fraud-at...st-levels/

Quote:An article appeared in the Atlantic this past week that exposes academic fraud at the highest levels, involving millions of dollars, unscrupulous scholars, and evangelical Christians so intent on proving the truth of the Bible that they were willing, even eager, to engage in unethical and fraudulent activities to do so.  It seems weird, but the case involves Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.
The article was written by one of the country’s best investigative journalists, Ariel Sabar, who earlier had exposed for once and all the modern forgery known as “The Gospel of Jesus’ Wife” in another article in the Atlantic  (I’ve blogged on this forgery a number of times as the story unfolded; just search for “Jesus’ wife” on the blog and you’ll see the posts).    Sabar has a forthcoming book on the topic, Veritas: A Harvard Professor, A Con Man, and the Gospel of Jesus’s Wife, due out in August.  I have read it in manuscript, and it is damning indeed.
So is the current article.  You can see it here:  https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...rk/610576/   It implicates the Museum of the Bible, Hobby Lobby, the evangelical Christian billionaires behind them, and a number of individuals employed by them, all named, including one of the foremost scholars of ancient Greek manuscripts in the world, an American who was a professor at Oxford and  the general editor for the Oxyrhynchus Papryri, named Dirk Obbink.

At the end Bart asks:

Quote: Why are some intensely religious people so eager to perpetuate deceit and lies in order to prove the “truth”?


The answer is that they know it is bullshit and bullshit needs more bullshit to prop it up.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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