why faith fails

[Astreja]

The purpose or ultimate goal of christianity is what? to inherit eternal life.

Good luck with that -- there's no evidence for eternal life, at least not as a sentient being that has your current worldview and memories.

On the other hand, if your eternity will be "lived" by a loosely-organized collective of insentient atoms, I think the universe will oblige you.

[Dancefortwo]

yes. When Ask Jesus himself gave two laws.
Love God with all you are. love your neighbor as yourself.

He literally says in following these two laws everything God wants from you is completed.

luke 10

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

And what part said "christianity" and I mean the phrase you stated was in the bible?

don't be obstinate. the term christian was not coined till 30 years after this point. 
The purpose or ultimate goal of christianity is what? to inherit eternal life.
This passage starts out with a teacher of the law asking what he must do to earn this.
Jesus Christ gave a 2 part answer.


once the church was formalized and the teaching of Christ became solidified into 'christianity' this two rule set remains. known as the golden rule.

why? because as he said all of the laws of God can be completed by following these two rules.

Putting aside that you've never once provided falsifiable evidence your god exists, why the fuck would anyone want to live eternally?  The thought of that is horrific!  You religious nuts think a lot of yourselves, don't you.  Somehow you think you're so special and deserving that if you follow a bunch of rules and regulations created by ignorant tribal goat and sheep herders who didn't know where the sun went at night, that you'll magically live forever.   What a load of horseshit.

The "Golden Rule" predates  Christianity and Judaism by over 1000 years.  It's written in the Hindu Mahabharta which goes back to over 3000 BC.  Christianity isn't a special religion, dearie.  It's recycled run of the mill nonsense.

[Drich]

It's ambiguous what Jesus was referring to by "this," but its proximity to the subject Peter, as well as the obvious parallel that Jesus was drawing between Peter, meaning rock, and the foundation of his church being a rock pretty much clinches it. 

actually it is not ambiguous if one looks to the over all history of the church and the church peter himself started. His church efforts failed. Peter was the apostles of the Jewish conversion which far exceeded the gentiles. So much so he received much greif from his members. Peter was seen as the rule of the church in jerusalem, and later in antioch. He NEVER went beyond there until he was captured and executed. He hated rome and stayed out of rome.

But one apostle did not in fact he seeded all of the gentile churches and was known as the father of the roman church it is the same man who wrote the book of romans. His name? "not Peter." (Paul.)

What was this church built on? The confession that Jesus is lord. 

what was the church peter built (and later failed) built on? act 2 starting at verse 20 that jesus is lord.

what was john's church built on?
what foundational truth was the church titus taught built on?

What you would try and hide in ambiguity history has uncovered and proven over and over and over again. Christ's church was build on the rock of His deity and not some man's efforts which fail historically and has all but been forgotten aside from his personal mistakes and errors

which again included the rule that all gentile men be circumcised prior to their conversion to christianity! He did this up to his end, yet the church even the RC church does not require circumcision of it's male converts does it? wonder why? oh, that's right Paul was the Father of the gentile church in Rome and thought peter had lost his way teaching this foolish work, which spawn a fued between them that Paul won out on.

Some infallible church father he wasn't.
https://kajvincent.wordpress.com/2015/11...volvement/

And the idea that there was a distinction between small and large rocks being referred to didn't hold at the time, so that's a non-issue. 

sure it did. that is why peter is peter and not "Simon The Rock Johnson" there were two very distinct words used. on meant unstable the other foundational. Peter's name while a tribute was a little mean. which went well with his failure in the garden (chopping off the guard's ear and again born the sun rise) it is said hard core jews use to crow like a rooster during his sermons to mess with him.

("The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used." [source])  You're welcome to believe otherwise, but your belief is just conjecture.  But then, I forget that you are God, so I guess that settles that.

this is not what the actual reference material cites.
https://biblehub.com/greek/4073.htm
Eitherway History was Peter's judge and the final determining factor of the meaning of Christ. 

If peter's church building efforts where meant to be the church of Christ it failed in 70Ad with the invasion of rome into jerusalem where His church was based.

Incidentally, looking at an interlinear bible, it clearly indicates that Jesus is saying something in addition to what came before the "And I tell you" that you are keying on here, which in the interlinear bible I am consulting is " which it translates as, "I also now to you say," so your grammatical point doesn't seem to hold up, either. 

So? In the complete form blessed are you for no person gave you this revelation but my father in heaven... you are a rock (something the size a man could toss) "I Also Now to you say" On this Sheer mountain face/petra (think of the ancient city of petra in comparison to a stone you could toss away) the word play indicating from this small stone that can be tossed aside, comes a mountain face/rock so large that hell shall not prevail against it!

Again this works not only grammatically correct history bears this truth out! You can not just follow what grammatically works it also has to jive with history. (reason for my first video) like it or not Peter's church failed when he was captured by rome in antioch. Paul had the only established church in rome. Paul's church is the measure of all but the RC church.

The idea that the church would be founded upon Christ's divinity was a weak point to start with.  Do you really believe that Jesus was saying that the church would be founded upon his divinity?

Ah, ye-yah.. the fact that Jesus is God in this religion separates us from every other abrahamic form of worship! that the teaching of Christ supercede any old covenant teaching that he has the authority as God to issue a new covenant one which includes the gentiles. EVERYTHING depends on his deity, and what's more at that point Only peter knew. When the rest found out they were still instructed to not tell anyone.

ETA:  Taking another look at the verse, I don't see Jesus consecrating Simon as Peter serves any function in that sentence other than to serve as the antecedent to the "this" that follows.

again this was Jesus being a little drich to his student. Jesus knowing all of the future failures of simon 'the rock' peter, assigned him a title he will fail over and over and over again.

ETA2:  Inb4 your usual bullshit, saying that papal infallibility is not mentioned in the bible is modally equivalent to saying that it is not possible that papal infallibility is mentioned in the bible, but since it is possible that this is what Jesus meant, your assertion fails.

Argumentum ad lapidem. you are going to have to do a little better than an appeal to stone to show my statement invalid.

again nothing in anything taught by jesus the prophets the apostles or even in a psalm does it say anyone is infallible let alone specifically a pope, or peter or even paul. The bi9ble does not even claim infallibility for what is written. the bible only says God himself is infallible.

Peter was wrong so many times in his ministry and in his actions it is a wonder jesus had anything to do with him. Again his big flub, not including gentiles in his church. they had to be converted to jews first. If he was the first pope I just showed you a mistake.

Paul himself in the book of romans details his mistakes and sin.

If these men if these true church fathers were fallible then explain to me how the pope is better. If the genuine apostles were commissioned by Christ himself could perform miracles by the way of the holy Spirit how is it they remain fallible but a man centuries removed is now somehow perfect when nothing in the bible confirmed this?

[Drich]

Personal experience isn't proof, dearie.  How many times do we have to tell you this?

it is for the intellectually honest.

If god showed up in your room right now and demonstrated who he was. you would still claim to not believe?

Are you so tied to group think you need permission by your scientific overlords to think anything different than what they tell you?

How would he do that?  Card tricks, pulling Hitler out of a tophat?  Daffodils in January?

he sent me a big scary homeless man asked if I could do him a favor, in helping him he told me of my past life present problems and what God had instore for me in the future with out me saying a word. even answered a question i had in my head but did not say out loud.

Then for the day to day stuff I starting to listen to christian radio. maybe 5 or 6 different preachers a day. i would ask a question or be facing a problem and over the radio everyday get a new set of answers to deal with my daily problems... which there was alot back then as I married a recovering heroin addict who relapsed into a 250 dollar a day habit..

sorted through all of that got her to a spiritual place and god flipped a switch and turned off the addiction. first 7 years of marriage was holy hell, but we have had almost 10 more trouble free years.

7 years though of me getting daily answers on what to do next from prerecorded radio. seven years of answers is a little more than what even a honest skeptic can dismiss.

Now it is direct. my answer to evolution my answers to you all come direct

[Drich]

Oh look. Another spamy video spouting irrelevant Christian BS ... which NO ONE here cares about at all.  
If it fails, then it's the fault of their gods.

"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, it is not from works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8

They really ought to read their Babble once in a while.

Drippy, you're far more entertaining with your batshit crazy inventions ... like tapping into the "nuclear energy" at the center of the Earth. LOL

not talking about salvation here dummy. watch the video.

I am speaking on relationship. why some people like me are close to God and get daily affirmation and proof, while other languish and only get nothing.

It is possible to be saved and never hear from God. this video explains why. which is separate and apart from salvation... so wrong again. do you know anything at all about the christianity spelled out in the bible?

Not gonna watch your stupid ignorant videos. Don't care what you think you are TRYING to speak about. No one cares here what you are speaking about.
There is no "daily proof" ... if you had "proof" you wouldn't need faith ... now would you. Do you ever actually *think* about the drivel that flows from your nonsense. It doesn't matter what you think you are talking about ... you nonsense contradicts your basic position (deism). Since you don't get the big concepts, you are incapable of seeing the contradictions.

it is for the intellectually honest

BTW,
Personal anecdotes are evidence and proof of nothing.
"Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." More generally, a statistical correlation between things does not in itself prove that one causes the other (a causal link)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

There is no "Christianity *spelled out in the Bible*. The Bible says nothing about "Christianity".
Paul and Jesus (if they existed .... which you have never proven, just like you have never demonstrated the authority of you scripture) were both Jewish apocalyptics.
They thought the end-times were immanent. There was no reason to "spell out" anything, if the "end-times were immanent". They were both wrong. "Christians" in the First Century were JEWS, and went to temple and synagogues. At the end of the 1st Century the Jewish High Priest issued the "expulsion curses" as the Jews were sick of the members of the "Way" (later called Christians) subsect of Jews causing trouble.
(Sorry ... I know that's a lot of big words for you). Christianity was never spelled out anywhere. If you actually KNEW anything about the subject you pretend to be able to talk about, you would know it developed over decades, centuries and is still developing today.

not gonna watch my video
not gonna read your tripe:

[Drich]

The problem is associating something to a god that has never been proven to exist.

God is proven daily to billions.. only 2.4% of the population says there is no proof. It is more accurate to say god does not cater to this 2.4% who want Him to meet them on their terms.

According to Pew Research and Gallup, 10% of Americas are atheists.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

Do you believe in God?
2017 May 3-7

Yes  87%
No  12%
No opinion 1%

https://www.pewforum.org/2018/04/25/when...they-mean/

Of this group, about half (10% of U.S. adults) say they do not believe in a higher power or spiritual force of any kind.


You should understand, there is a difference between those who self identify as atheists and those who admit they do not believe in God.

and what percentage of the world dummy?

or does the whole God thing center around this ungrateful nation?
2.4%

A 2004 survey by the CIA in the World Factbook estimates about 12.5% of the world's population are non-religious, and about 2.4% are atheists. A 2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries.
[/url]undefineden.wikipedia.org › wiki › Demographics_of_atheism


Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism]

[Bucky Ball]

not gonna read your tripe:

But you did post the only possible answer you have .... a childish irrelevant piece of shit. 

It says a lot. 
Not watching your video is not at all equivalent to crafting an intelligent response. 

That's OK. 
No one here expects anything of you. 
Stop your preaching career ... now ... you're horseshit at it. Stop spamming this site.
Get lost.

[Drich]

Anyone who has "daily proof" of anything, has no need of faith.

DUH!!!!
That is what I am saying. I do not have faith. i have daily affirmations.

Things one has proof of, are not the objects of faith.
These people say they are saved by faith. Apparently they're out of luck.

when we start we need faith. just a mustard seed's worth, just enough to seek God on his terms. then God shows up. and faith is needed no more for belief.. God will test and strech/grow your faith by trials.

[Dancefortwo]

.....the church peter himself started.

More meaningless twattle and circular reasoning quotes.   The vast majority of new testament scholars highly doubt that an ignorant, illiterate fishermen from Galilee wrote Peter's 1 or 2 in the high end, highly educated style of Greek they were written in.  They show no sign of translation from Aramaic so he couldn't have written it or dictated it either.   

Christianity wasn't built on a rock, it was built in hearsay, fraud and embellished storytelling.

[Bucky Ball]

Anyone who has "daily proof" of anything, has no need of faith.

DUH!!!!
That is what I am saying. I do not have faith. i have daily affirmations.

Things one has proof of, are not the objects of faith.
These people say they are saved by faith. Apparently they're out of luck.

when we start we need faith. just a mustard seed's worth, just enough to seek God on his terms. then God shows up. and faith is needed no more for belief.. God will test and strech/grow your faith by trials.

You have no clue what you're saying. 
That you think you have "daily affirmations" is irrelevant. 
Personal anecdotes are irrelevant. 
Do parents with infants with cancer have "daily affirmations". 
Your religion says you are saved by faith. 
You are so fucked up, have no clue what you have. 

Stuart has "daily affirmations" too. Aren't you special.

[Drich]

[quote="Drich" pid='178338' dateline='1579196145'] I was told my reasoning was circular. That was the charge. I want proof of it. I want a cut and paste or a link or something that demonstrates what i have been accused of.

Every time you reference the Bible as evidence, this is circular. The bible is a book of claims.  It claims a god exists, it is not evidence a god exists.  Every time you quote the bible you're using circular reasoning.  Every video you post that has a link to a bible quote is circular reasoning.

duh, i mean ok welcome to the conversation glad to see you understand your objective now simply find where i reference the bible in a way that is conducive to this definition.

Or save yourself the time and trust I have never once in 15 years of teaching done this.

I have understood circular reasoning long long before I was christian and use to beat the hell out of christian who used this form of logic. So why would I then use the same... No this is you being a lazy moron looser too short minded to make a distinction between what I have been teaching here and the rest of christianity. You only assume this stereotype fits, sorry sport try again.

What you crazy theists need is unbiased evidence for the magical biblical events outside of the book  to prove your deity exists and there are none to be had.

and if I had this... i would never have a circular argument again... hmmm gotta get me some of that huh? oh, wait.. tee hee.

  Personal experience is not evidence.

my experience is for me you are right, however God offers you the ver same sit down proof he personalized for me, He offers for you. What proof of donald trump's presidency would be the best? a 20 min long cnn news article, or trump inviting you into the whitehouse to shadow him for the rest of this term and the next?

  Personal experience is the LEAST reliable of all because it's confirmation bias.

ever had sex? real sex with someone of the opposite sex? not lets kill god in our minds so monkey can poke monkey in the b-hole. So what was better? the clinical scientific proof given about the purpose, nature of sex and pleasure you can get in the movie you watched in the 4th grade, or the experience of it?
If you watch the same movie i did made in the 1960s... then please.. seriously don't pretend personal experience means nothing. You sound like nun teaching abstinence on a nude beach.
God is offering what amounts to a 'free ride' to find out for yourself.

  Funny that people have personal experiences only with the very deities they were brought up to believe in.  

that's funny I was brought up with buddha and God showed up instead.. you know what is even more funny? the millions of chinese brought up under the threat of death if caught worshiping any god and still reports of them experiencing angels and jesus. without any real knowledge of him.

You personal experience is no different. It's a bunch of confirmation biased crap.

echo... kinda what i said.

now imagine what you would think if a scary homeless man spoke to you of all of your troubles and conversed with you without you saying two words to him?

little different when you are the one in the story and you test out the limits of what you experience.

[Drich]

How faith fails is a better question.

the how faith fails is the answer to why it fails. meaning that explanation is what the video is about.

I disagree. Your "Why" includes Jesus. Your video does not answer "How". "How" includes the fact that the Bible is bullshit and Jesus turned up a worm farm long ago (if he ever existed at all).

watch the video the why is based on the lack of jesus. or the lack of a biblically based jesus.

[Dancefortwo]

.....when we start we need faith.

 

One more time, because you're so goddamn dense.  Faith is belief without evidence.  ALLLLLLL religions around the world use faith as a vehicle to believe in whatever god they insist exists. Since faith can be used as a path to believe in Zeus, Odin or hundreds of other gods faith becomes meaningless.  Faith is utterly arbitrary, it has nothing to do with whether anything of it true or not.  You might as well throw a dart at a map of religions and have faith in the one it lands on.  

......just a mustard seed's worth....

Oh, that reminds me,  the Babble claims the mustard seed is the smallest seed.  It's obvious wrong but when a book is written by ignorant farmers what does one expect.

[Drich]

If God sat or even sent an angel to sit with you for 20 mins answered every question you had without asking them, told you of your life past present and future and conversed with you without you saying anything out loud, would you need 'science' to tell you it was ok to believe in God?

No, but I think I would need a doctor or two to work out wtf had happened to my brain.  

so in the little box you  live, in the world group think/science has created  in there is nothing out side of it? science knows everything?

[Drich]

The proof I sought was/is offered to everyone but only on god's terms.

Another classic from "The Great Omnibus of Christian Loopholes".

a loop hole between only you and god. no one else moderates no one knows no one else gains anything, this is not even a verbal thing. it is a decision that happens internally. so then what is the purpose of the 'christian loop hole' if christianity has nothing to gain? isn't that the purpose of the loop hole?

[Drich]

The proof I sought was/is offered to everyone but only on god's terms.

"Love me on my terms or I'll beat you forever." another impressively bad slogan from religion, the all-time champion abusive relationship.

no.

Elect to serve God, and go with him to eternity... or stay with your current master who has a proclivity to hate his slaves, who subjects them routinely to pain murder rape war death and finally hell.

are you so ignorant of the christian gospel that you think Christianity is about following rules? don't you know that was the core of judaism? don't you know under Christ as a christian we have only been given 2 rules to follow? Love god with all you can and your neighbor as yourself?

Are these two rules so offensive to you you can not love or even seek God out on his terms?

Don't yu get all the pain hate and evil in this world is the result of our current default master? that we are born as slaves to him and Christ died to pay for your freedom, which is yours if you simply recognise what he did...

your right too much to ask for some. they rather stick with the husband that beats the hell out of them than live in the freedom God offers.

[Bucky Ball]

I decided for the god Ishtar. No one gains anything. No one moderates. No one knows. It happened internally.
The Ishtar loophole.

What a bunch of fucking nonsense.

[no one]

drick, did late-night sneaky uncle convince you just how special you were? If so, I think you took it the wrong way. You're a special kind of special.

[Drich]

1980 called and they want your outdated sterotype back


f- your bullets God is real

[Drich]

The purpose or ultimate goal of christianity is what? to inherit eternal life.

Good luck with that -- there's no evidence for eternal life, at least not as a sentient being that has your current worldview and memories.

On the other hand, if your eternity will be "lived" by a loosely-organized collective of insentient atoms, I think the universe will oblige you.

Time will tell. I am ready are you?

[Drich]

Anyone who has "daily proof" of anything, has no need of faith.

DUH!!!!
That is what I am saying. I do not have faith. i have daily affirmations.

Things one has proof of, are not the objects of faith.
These people say they are saved by faith. Apparently they're out of luck.

when we start we need faith. just a mustard seed's worth, just enough to seek God on his terms. then God shows up. and faith is needed no more for belief.. God will test and strech/grow your faith by trials.

You have no clue what you're saying. 
That you think you have "daily affirmations" is irrelevant. 
Personal anecdotes are irrelevant. 
Do parents with infants with cancer have "daily affirmations". 
Your religion says you are saved by faith. 
You are so fucked up, have no clue what you have. 

Stuart has "daily affirmations" too. Aren't you special.

are you on the spectrum? why the need to make connections like how the word affirmation is used in other ways? not even remotly relevant except for 'special people.'

[Bucky Ball]

are you so ignorant of the christian gospel that you think Christianity is about following rules? 

Jesus was a Jew. 
He wasn't a Christian. He said it WAS about the rules. 
He said ""Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

[Bucky Ball]

DUH!!!!
That is what I am saying. I do not have faith. i have daily affirmations.

when we start we need faith. just a mustard seed's worth, just enough to seek God on his terms. then God shows up. and faith is needed no more for belief.. God will test and strech/grow your faith by trials.

You have no clue what you're saying. 
That you think you have "daily affirmations" is irrelevant. 
Personal anecdotes are irrelevant. 
Do parents with infants with cancer have "daily affirmations". 
Your religion says you are saved by faith. 
You are so fucked up, have no clue what you have. 

Stuart has "daily affirmations" too. Aren't you special.

are you on the spectrum? why the need to make connections like how the word affirmation is used in other ways? not even remotly relevant except for 'special people.'

It's actually exactly the same as your affirmations. 
As usual, the point went WAY over your head. 
Nice try at evasion. 
You really should learn how to debate some day.

That's hilarious. "On the spectrum" ... what ? Did you actually look up a word when YOU were talking about "ass-burgers" ? LMAO

af·firm·a·tion
/ˌafərˈmāSH(ə)n/

1.
the action or process of affirming something or being affirmed.
"he nodded in affirmation"
2.
emotional support or encouragement.
"the lack of one or both parents' affirmation leaves some children emotionall

[Dancefortwo]

 Or save yourself the time and trust I have never once in 15 years of teaching done this.

LOLOL, you aren't teaching anyone anything about the Bible.  Most of the posters here know 5 times more about the bible than you do.

now imagine what you would think if a scary homeless man spoke to you of all of your troubles and conversed with you without you saying two words to him?

What's that got to do with anything at all.  You're really weird and mentally out of alignment, aren't you.

 that's funny I was brought up with buddha...

Liar!  From your posts you know very little about Buddhism.

   the millions of chinese brought up under the threat of death if caught worshiping any god and still reports of them experiencing angels and jesus. without any real knowledge of him.

  

Bullshit, the vast majority of Chinese know who Jesus was.  They aren't threatened if caught worshipping a god.  Your knowledge of the world could fit in a thimble.

The Chinese have visions of ancient deities that were worshipped in the past. They have an old book of prophecy, the Tui bei tu, that they believe was inspired by spirits which prophecized WW II, the Chinese revolution and predicts many future events.  Nobody threatens them to not read this book. It's a bestseller in China. 

Hindus have near death experiences of Vishnu and other gods they worship.  American Indians have near death experiences of the deities they believe in.  NDE's are cultural.  They're called NEAR death experiences because the person isn't dead.

[Astreja]

Time will tell. I am ready are you?

I've been "ready" since at least 1968.  Eternal life strikes me as singularly pointless, just an ego game.  Why do "I" need to survive forever, when there are so many other sentient beings whose collective experiences -- even in a mere 100 years of life -- render my own experiences into a minuscule minority view?

A finite life has a poignancy and preciousness that is bulldozed into insignificance by the prospect of eternal life.  No thanks.