Greetings.

[Cavebear]

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- Oppositely, ethics matters in political affairs, and morality doesn't have much to say about that.

Well uh ... at least that's what we were brought up to expect, but now ... ?    

Who knows what the heck is happening!  

Sorry, maybe I pay attention to words and concepts more than most people. I see/love nuances. So morals and ethics are different words to me.

And as Douglas Adams basically said, keep your towel, don't panic, and 42!

[Thumpalumpacus]

I’ve always understood morals to be tied to beliefs, religious or not, whereas ethics is concerned with behaviors within a society.  Both can vary.  

Is eating ham moral?  To an Orthodox Jew, no…it’s immoral where a Christian considers it either morally ok or, at least, amoral.  Ethically, we shouldn’t make a Jew eat pork nor make a Christian have an abortion even though Judaism has no problem with abortions in certain situations and Christian’s assume pork is served everywhere. (Yes, Jewish deli owners have had to explain why ham isn’t on their menu).

And yes, certain actions can be in both categories.

Is there more to this that I’m missing?

Bacon.

[Minimalist]

Patty's post reminded me of a joke my Jewish colleague used to tell anyone he met.

Q.  Do you know what the Jew's Dilemma is?

Reply.  No.

Answer:  Free Ham.

[Cavebear]

Patty's post reminded me of a joke my Jewish colleague used to tell anyone he met.

Q.  Do you know what the Jew's Dilemma is?

Reply.  No.

Answer:  Free Ham.

OK, yeah, good joke. I smiled.

But I try to be a bit careful of stereotypes. From 9-13, I lived in a neighborhood with only girls around. So I learned to jump rope, hopscotch, and initials. I actually got rather good at double-dutch and salt&pepper. I was good at hopscotch.

"Initials" was trickier. That's a game of a grid drawn on a driveway where you have to hop into each square without touching the lines. If you succeed, you get to chalk your initials in any square and no one can step in that square. So it gets harder to get around the grid. And I had bigger feet and had to jump on my toes! But I did well enough.

Fortunately, my last year there had some boys move in. We played chess and "smear the queer". Don't get too upset about that. Back then, we had no idea about sex at 13, and the name was mostly alliterate from some unknown source. The game was just "tackle tag". Whoever had the ball had to try to avoid being tackle by the other few guys for as long as possible. But it was more physical and as a teen guy I needed that.

But I will add that the "girl games" sure improved my agility! And I value the differing experiences.

[pattylt]

When I left Judaism for good, I was determined to become fully secular. It took a while to eat ham and I found that while pork chops were ok, they didn’t rock my boat. Then, I finally tried bacon! Yeah, that rocked my boat. And what we called goyim gravy…thickened gravy. No more wet drippings on mashed potatoes but thick creamy gravy! Boat rocked again!

[Minimalist]

[Company loompa]

Morals is what you consider right or wrong. Ethics is more focused on why that thing is considered right or wrong. For example, I may say it is morally wrong to put pineapple on pizza. But I would ethically explain that putting pineapple on pizza is wrong because....

I consider "morals" to be within the concerns of religious behavior, while "ethics" are more a secular human concern.  I understand most people don't make that distinction, but I do.

I see "immorality" as a sin against a deity's commandments, so "morality" means following a deity's demands.  "Ethics" are more of a human community's agreed-upon rules of just living together in peace and law.

They overlap.  Both say you should not steal, you should not lie, you should respect your elders...  But morality gives the reason as a deity telling us what to do or not.  Ethics are what we develop on our own by common agreement as a society.  

So, not honoring the Lord Thy God is "immoral", but ethics doesn't really give a damn about that.  Oppositely, ethics matters in political affairs, and morality doesn't have much to say about that.

Hope that helped.  

With all due respect. My concern is not what YOU think is moral or ethical. But what Army Doctrine says. In Army FM 7-22, yes, spirituality is a fundamental building block for one's moral and ethical standards. Morality is what you consider to be "right or wrong," ethics is the task of putting your morals into action in a practical sense. You may say "This is wrong." That is a moral assertion. But an ethical conversation would say, "Okay, I believe the actions in this scenario is wrong because it violates my moral standard because...."

[Company loompa]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever served in the Navy or Marine Corps? I am asking because you stated "Welcome aboard." Which is a typical response to someone in the Navy or Marine Corps.

No.  I went to University in 1968.  There was no way I was going to tolerate being drafted and sent to Vietnam to burn villages and kill people struggling to get free of colonialism.  And aside from that, I would not have put up with some crazed drill sergeant.

The good news is that I didn't have to find out.  When I read about the 1969 draft, I realized it involved 3 years of draftees, and I was unlikely to be called.  I dropped my college deferment and took my chances.  Ny number was 250 and they didn't come close to that.  Logic has some value.

Had I been called, I would probably posting here from some place in Canada.

"Welcome Aboard" is a pretty standard greeting here and elsewhere.  I did not mean anything military about it.

Okay. I was just asking because before I became an Army chaplain, I served in the Marine Corps, both active duty/reserve, and enlisted/officer. "Welcome aboard" was a common term while I served in the Department of the Navy.

[Company loompa]

I’ve always understood morals to be tied to beliefs, religious or not, whereas ethics is concerned with behaviors within a society.  Both can vary.  

Is eating ham moral?  To an Orthodox Jew, no…it’s immoral where a Christian considers it either morally ok or, at least, amoral.  Ethically, we shouldn’t make a Jew eat pork nor make a Christian have an abortion even though Judaism has no problem with abortions in certain situations and Christian’s assume pork is served everywhere. (Yes, Jewish deli owners have had to explain why ham isn’t on their menu).

And yes, certain actions can be in both categories.

Is there more to this that I’m missing?

Yes. Morality is centered around what you believe to be right or wrong. Ethics is more practical in nature. I is centered around how in certain circumstances, based on your moral values, how would you respond under certain circumstances. Again, if you thought it was morally wrong to put pineapple on pizza, the ethical conversation would be centered around how you would respond, and why, if a pineapple pizza was given to you.

[Company loompa]

I’ve always understood morals to be tied to beliefs, religious or not, whereas ethics is concerned with behaviors within a society.  Both can vary.  

Is eating ham moral?  To an Orthodox Jew, no…it’s immoral where a Christian considers it either morally ok or, at least, amoral.  Ethically, we shouldn’t make a Jew eat pork nor make a Christian have an abortion even though Judaism has no problem with abortions in certain situations and Christian’s assume pork is served everywhere. (Yes, Jewish deli owners have had to explain why ham isn’t on their menu).

And yes, certain actions can be in both categories.

Is there more to this that I’m missing?

Wrong. Morals and ethics has nothing to do with religion. It all comes down to what you believe to be right and wrong, regardless of your religion (or lack thereof), and how you can articulate why that thing is right or wrong, or how you would respond under certain circumstances due to your moral convictions.

[Company loompa]

When I left Judaism for good, I was determined to become fully secular.  It took a while to eat ham and I found that while pork chops were ok, they didn’t rock my boat.  Then, I finally tried bacon!  Yeah, that rocked my boat.  And what we called goyim gravy…thickened gravy.  No more wet drippings on mashed potatoes but thick creamy gravy!  Boat rocked again!

Acts 10:15 is my excuse that says bacon is okay, and I love it!

[Company loompa]

I just wanted to say that, due to my work, I don't have the luxury of time to respond as much as I would like to. I am very busy caring for the soldiers. This is just a side project I'm working on with whatever little free time I have. So please do not take it personally if I do not respond as quickly as you would like. Thank you.

[Company loompa]

Not only does this violate the Hebrew laws in the Talmund about eating pork, but also the laws forbidding eating a calf cooked in its mother's milk. Otherwise, it is forbidden to eat beef with dairy products (Cheese).

[Minimalist]

Would you like to know know how little I care about the frigging Talmud?

I grew up in New York and every other kid in my class was jewish....and did they complain about kosher cooking!

[OakTree500]

Welcome aboard!

Just out of curiosity, have you ever served in the Navy or Marine Corps? I am asking because you stated "Welcome aboard." Which is a typical response to someone in the Navy or Marine Corps.

Hi,

Nope never have

I just think "welcome aboard" isn't used enough, so say it to everybody!