Social Science: What do you think the problems is?

[Secular Heckler]

In February 2001, before the terrorist attacks, I noticed that American society was increasingly disorderly. Why is there so much conflict in contrast to how sophisticated technology has evolved? "Why can't we all just get along?" is the perpetual public grievance that seems to have manifested into the recent proclamations of another civil war.

I am preparing to release my treatise on the subject, and I want to consult with the critical thinkers:

Do you agree that the evolution of American society has gotten more disorderly?

Why do you think things have gotten to the state you believe it to be?

[Rhythmcs]

Do you agree that the evolution of American society has gotten more disorderly?

Well...crime is down and keeps going down, but domestic terrorism is up and going up.  That suggests to me that society is becoming more orderly, but in a way that domestic terrorists believe leaves them out of said order and it's (alleged, purported, supposed?) benefits.  

Why do you think things have gotten to the state you believe it to be?

I think that the moneyed interests which have captured our government understand they will end up like the french aristocracy unless they can turn our own reactionary violence inward.  To that end they've exploited the most consistently productive form of class war and grievance in all of american history.

[brewerb]

In February 2001, before the terrorist attacks, I noticed that American society was increasingly disorderly. Why is there so much conflict in contrast to how sophisticated technology has evolved? "Why can't we all just get along?" is the perpetual public grievance that seems to have manifested into the recent proclamations of another civil war.

I am preparing to release my treatise on the subject, and I want to consult with the critical thinkers:

Do you agree that the evolution of American society has gotten more disorderly?

Why do you think things have gotten to the state you believe it to be?

Welcome. Your questions are to broad for me to comment on. If you can give more specifics I'll give them a shot.

[pattylt]

I think that to see where we are now, we need to follow the money and power structure over time. It wasn’t one event. It was a progressive change in how most people could economically get ahead and the deterioration of religious power over everyday lives.

Some of it is hard to nail down as the chicken or the egg coming first. Did our economic change of needing both people working come first and then women demanding more rights in both the workplace and home or vice versa? They appeared to happen at the same time.

Did our politics experience a shift with Regan or Nixon or was it the sexual revolution and the pill that changed the political dynamic?

Like most history, we may have to leave it to historians long after we’re dead to figure it out. I can’t…

[Dexta]

In February 2001, before the terrorist attacks, I noticed that American society was increasingly disorderly. Why is there so much conflict in contrast to how sophisticated technology has evolved? "Why can't we all just get along?" is the perpetual public grievance that seems to have manifested into the recent proclamations of another civil war.

I am preparing to release my treatise on the subject, and I want to consult with the critical thinkers:

Do you agree that the evolution of American society has gotten more disorderly?

Why do you think things have gotten to the state you believe it to be?

I'm a Brit and think the biggest change has been the sexual revolution, compared to more civilised times. The ability of women to sleep around makes men feel insecure as fuck, and that insecurity is acted out upon at every strata of society. The pill. More like the atom bomb. 2c

[Dexta]

DP

[Dānu]

People aren't wearing enough hats.

[Antonio]

Raygun bringing the religious fascists out of the closet (the silent majority) .

[jerry mcmasters]

In February 2001, before the terrorist attacks, I noticed that American society was increasingly disorderly. Why is there so much conflict in contrast to how sophisticated technology has evolved? "Why can't we all just get along?" is the perpetual public grievance that seems to have manifested into the recent proclamations of another civil war.

I am preparing to release my treatise on the subject, and I want to consult with the critical thinkers:

Do you agree that the evolution of American society has gotten more disorderly?

Why do you think things have gotten to the state you believe it to be?

"Disorderly" is too vague and subjective to pin down.  To the extent it means something like "contrary to human flourishing" I think a couple typically trotted out suggestions are valid, such as:

Wealth inequality:  Not just the reality of it but the inescapable (thanks, internet!) knowledge of it ("Comparison is the thief of Joy" is that how it goes?) I think it used to be something seen as true but distasteful and generally unwanted, today it is celebrated and flaunted; I got mine, you don't?  You're a failure!  I'm old, but I sympathize with the plight of the young in America and understand their discouragement and negativity.  Between AI and automation and globalized slave labor, less and less will there be anything for them (Americans) to actually do to make a living and (this affects the men more than the women I think) feel useful and purposeful and respected in society, the foundation for fatherhood.  A house and nice stuff you actually own?  "Middle class respectability"?  More and more out of reach. 

Social alienation:  I haven't read "Bowling Alone" in quite a few years so this may not do it justice, but the idea that Americans are more and more isolating themselves with good old face to face human interaction and connection, messy as it is.  We are all on line, forming ephemeral "relationships" that get us nowhere in real life.  Any of us here could get a terminal disease tomorrow but there will be no forum member to come to their house with as little as a kind word and a home cooked meal.  Possibly the only good thing about religion- local churches, a place for members of the community to gather once or twice a week (outside work) and make human connections and form face to face relationships.

Social media and the internet in general:  "Things I don't know for sure but suspect are true" Easy access to unlimited screen stimulation, especially porn, is probably melting the brains of the young.  Attention spans.  Ability to concentrate.  Read a book?  Why bother.

Dissolution of a common culture:  Fewer and fewer things that bind me in any way to my neighbor.  Reduced idea that we have common interests and share a common history and culture and values.  Shitty education system.

This is a very incomplete list btw.

[Thumpalumpacus]

This is a very incomplete list btw.

Absolutely. The factors going into societal discomfiture are many and varied. There is no "the" answer.

[Dānu]

[jerry mcmasters]

This is a very incomplete list btw.

Absolutely. The factors going into societal discomfiture are many and varied. There is no "the" answer.

For sure.  I don't even know what to make of the increasing number of kids without fathers in their lives.  Curious what OP thinks, but maybe it was just a hit and run.

[SteveII]

"Orderly" and "disorderly" are the wrong words.

It has to do with the breakdown of or participation in institutions that formed community (community groups like little league/pop Warner football, bowling league, neighborhood block associations, PTA, other civic groups and yes, churches). These groups created bonds between real people and illustrated that we had much more in common than we have differences. These have largely been replaced by online 'communities' (or what we mistake for communities) which lacks ALL of the important and positive aspects of community. Actually, much of online acts as the anti-community and sorts people into groups and builds walls and silos to sort the citizenry.

[epronovost]

If by orderly you mean regulated by complex systems of interactions and institutions of great complexity I would say this is true. But, as other members have mentioned it, your terms are not clear and generally speaking our society is mostly characterized by a greater level of isolation and higher levels of stress, especially linked to various social anxiety like fear of crime, fear of instability, fear of conflict, fear of missing out on some opportunity, etc.

[Secular Heckler]

Curious what OP thinks, but maybe it was just a hit and run.

I am not doing a hit-and-run. I am reviewing the discussion at least twice a day, and allowing for as many first responses from members who may not participate as often.

I do not understand why I have to be more specific about describing social order. Maybe, some of you are not living in the USA; and maybe, some of you just want to be contrarian, rather than deliberate. One post describe specific social interactions, but it was difficult for me to comprehend.

I am very confident that I can find plenty of social grievances discussed on this and the other more popular forums. Are the members of this forum solving any social problems? Are any forums solving any social problems?

[epronovost]

I do not understand why I have to be more specific about describing social order.

Because it's not clear. Words are context dependent and can be understood in many, many ways. In my part, for example, when someone talks about "society being increasingly disorderly" it's usually some sort of dogwhistle concerning race, sexuality or gender and not the and of conversation you want to have with that kind of people. 

Maybe, some of you are not living in the USA

Some of us don't indeed.

[jerry mcmasters]

Curious what OP thinks, but maybe it was just a hit and run.

I am not doing a hit-and-run. I am reviewing the discussion at least twice a day, and allowing for as many first responses from members who may not participate as often.

I do not understand why I have to be more specific about describing social order. Maybe, some of you are not living in the USA; and maybe, some of you just want to be contrarian, rather than deliberate. One post describe specific social interactions, but it was difficult for me to comprehend.

I am very confident that I can find plenty of social grievances discussed on this and the other more popular forums. Are the members of this forum solving any social problems? Are any forums solving any social problems?

I'm in the US and still don't quite get your meaning.  I would say on this forum the most advocated for solution for social problems is more and better government intervention.  Support Democratic party over Republican party.  How active members are in real life in pursuit of these goals as opposed to talking about it here I don't know, but I know no internet forum ever has or ever will solve a country's social problems.

[brewerb]

Are the members of this forum solving any social problems? Are any forums solving any social problems?

I didn't know that atheist forums purpose was to address/solve social problems. I'm here for social contact with atheists, I don't encounter many (if any) in my overly religious community.

What 'social problems' do you think I/we/atheist forums should be solving? I don't think you've identified any so far.

edit: Are you an SJW or just hunting?

[Thumpalumpacus]

I do not understand why I have to be more specific about describing social order. Maybe, some of you are not living in the USA; and maybe, some of you just want to be contrarian, rather than deliberate. One post describe specific social interactions, but it was difficult for me to comprehend.

Generally speaking, clarification is a good antidote to misunderstanding, and a valuable part of communication.

It beats the hell out of casting aspersions, at the very least.

[Rhythmcs]

I am very confident that I can find plenty of social grievances discussed on this and the other more popular forums. Are the members of this forum solving any social problems? Are any forums solving any social problems?

Yeah, those white grievances are pretty ubiquitous on forums and social media.  Why, it's almost as if they were manufactured there.  They sure are getting in the way of solving anything.

[mordant]

I think framing this in terms of (dis)orderliness is misguided and vague.

An authoritarian's notion of orderliness is to crush all his opponents.

A conservative's notion of orderliness is to impose conformity on non-conformists. It's couched in terms like "law and order" but it's really about "conserving" a very specific notion of acceptable values and behaviors.

A liberal's notion of orderliness is a society in which a perfectly effective and efficient social safety net guarantees a basic standard of health and well-being and lack of want.

A theist's notion of orderliness is everything being in subjection to the (alleged) will of its god.

A cultured person't notion of orderliness involves things like propriety and elevated tastes.

An anarchist doesn't even think social order is a good or healthy idea.

The current state of affairs in 'Murica isn't about a lack of whatever you personally conceive "orderliness" to consist of. It's a combination of factors. In no particular order, it's a rewiring of the social fabric and of human minds by social media, the rarity of people who are schooled and practiced in critical thinking skills, the preference for what we wish to be true rather than what is true, the rapacious and bottomless appetites of oligarchs for unaccountable money, possessions, power, and fame / influence / adulation at the expense of ordinary people (and more broadly, the insatiable appetite of under-regulated capitalist systems for endless consumption and growth), the use of religious faith to make people dumb and brutish and selfish and morally depraved and resentful and entitled and controlling. And a bunch of other things.

[jerry mcmasters]

 I'm here for social contact with atheists,

I'm here to continue cultivating all the friendships I've developed over the years. 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think framing this in terms of (dis)orderliness is misguided and vague.

An authoritarian's notion of orderliness is to crush all his opponents.

A conservative's notion of orderliness is to impose conformity on non-conformists. It's couched in terms like "law and order" but it's really about "conserving" a very specific notion of acceptable values and behaviors.

A liberal's notion of orderliness is a society in which a perfectly effective and efficient social safety net guarantees a basic standard of health and well-being and lack of want.

A theist's notion of orderliness is everything being in subjection to the (alleged) will of its god.

A cultured person't notion of orderliness involves things like propriety and elevated tastes.

An anarchist doesn't even think social order is a good or healthy idea.

The current state of affairs in 'Murica isn't about a lack of whatever you personally conceive "orderliness" to consist of. It's a combination of factors. In no particular order, it's a rewiring of the social fabric and of human minds by social media, the rarity of people who are schooled and practiced in critical thinking skills, the preference for what we wish to be true rather than what is true, the rapacious and bottomless appetites of oligarchs for unaccountable money, possessions, power, and fame / influence / adulation at the expense of ordinary people (and more broadly, the insatiable appetite of under-regulated capitalist systems for endless consumption and growth), the use of religious faith to make people dumb and brutish and selfish and morally depraved and resentful and entitled and controlling. And a bunch of other things.

The idea that "order = good" is superficial at best.

[Secular Heckler]

The idea that "order = good" is superficial at best.

I think you are just being a contrarian to my thesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_order

I think framing this in terms of (dis)orderliness is misguided and vague.

Your list provides an adequate description of the disorderliness that the other participants have asked me to be more specific about.

I want to know how we find the correct, true, or natural social order from all that competing for our attention and adherence.

[Secular Heckler]

 I'm here for social contact with atheists,

I'm here to continue cultivating all the friendships I've developed over the years.

You are both unwittingly describing your search for order.

In every society, people belong to groups, such as businesses, families, churches, athletic groups, or neighborhoods. The structure inside of these groups mirrors that of the whole society. There are networks and ties between groups, as well as inside of each of the groups, which create social order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_order