Is Wokeism Best Understood as a Religion?

[Vorpal]

"Wokeism" and "virtue signaling" are potential threats to intellectual integrity, including the suppression of dissent, the emphasis on superficial performative behavior, and the oversimplification of complex issues.  As far as liberal identity fears majorities and deems minorities worthy of special respect,  a liberal fundamentalism emerges. As far as attempts at moderation lead to cancellation, a monster grows.

From: Liberal Fundamentalism: A Sociology of Wokeness, By Eric Kaufmann

Viewing wokeness as a highly decentered liberal religion helps us understand the movement’s extremism, its witch hunts, and its awakenings. It explains why high-status people and elite institutions mouth its mantras, why its moderates can’t stand up to its fundamentalists, and why it is both the product of, and an engine of, polari­zation.

Trump won the election in part because liberal moderates have failed to stand up to the extremists.

[Minimalist]

Fuckface won because he lied his ass off and his idiot followers fell for it.....AGAIN.

[Dānu]

[Vorpal]

Fuckface won because he lied his ass off and his idiot followers fell for it.....AGAIN.

He gained more diverse followers and fewer people voted against him than previously. Did more people get dumber?

[Rhythmcs]

Wokism is a reich wing bogeyman. The broligarchy's excuse to rob the magat poor and give to the globalist rich.

Faced with the overwhelming success of wildly progressive ballot initiatives even in deep red magat areas the reich and their corporatist dem allies say the party need to be less of the thing that everyone apparently wants...granted, some portion of americans are mouth breathing simpletons who keep getting conned by a serial grifter. Dems lost because liberal moderates can't stand up to anyone. That's what being a moderate means in the face of facist extremism, apparently.

I wonder what percentage kaufman thinks will work to help dems win. Maybe do 50% of the fascist shit? 75 to play it safe? I say it doesn't matter. If you're thinking maybe 1% you may as well go 100 - I have no confidence in a nation that negotiates over these terms. It won't work out the way you like but then again..given the setup..nothing else would either.

[Mathilda]

"Wokeism" and "virtue signaling" are potential threats to intellectual integrity, including the suppression of dissent, the emphasis on superficial performative behavior, and the oversimplification of complex issues.  As far as liberal identity fears majorities and deems minorities worthy of special respect,  a liberal fundamentalism emerges. As far as attempts at moderation lead to cancellation, a monster grows.

From: Liberal Fundamentalism: A Sociology of Wokeness, By Eric Kaufmann

Viewing wokeness as a highly decentered liberal religion helps us understand the movement’s extremism, its witch hunts, and its awakenings. It explains why high-status people and elite institutions mouth its mantras, why its moderates can’t stand up to its fundamentalists, and why it is both the product of, and an engine of, polari­zation.

Trump won the election in part because liberal moderates have failed to stand up to the extremists.

Before we can answer that, you need to define what "woke" is.

[Dexta]

My definition of woke - believing that society is riddled with vast quantities of white privilege, male privilege, Islamophobia (sic) and LGBTQ+ phobia. I do not classify myself as woke because, while I think there is some of the aforementioned items, we are far from riddled with vast quantities. Also I think a strong dislike of Islam is fully reasonable and justified.

[Vorpal]

If being woke is just cultural sensitivity, that would be great. We could then discuss where the threshold between self-interest and awareness of potentially biased interpretation of others might reasonably be situated.

I think Woke is becoming a prescribed set of truisms that may not be critisized for fear of an extreme rejection of a questioning person.

[Rhythmcs]

That's a great description - but here again it's a reich wing phenomena. Woke is the reason california was on fire. Woke is the reason grocery prices went up. Woke is the reason the sun shined right through the window this morning too early. It's all ridiculous, we watched it happen in real time, and yet here we all are seemingly determined to live out some fantasy that any of this was ever otherwise. Haggling with the monsters that live under some other nutters bed.

[Dānu]

If being woke is just cultural sensitivity, that would be great.  We could then discuss where the threshold between self-interest and awareness of potentially biased interpretation of others might reasonably be situated.

I think Woke is becoming a prescribed set of truisms that may not be critisized for fear of an extreme rejection of  a questioning person.

We've already got words for that besides woke.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Woke is the Republican bullseye. Woke is why your steel plant closed and Afghanistan was lost and cops are now getting arrested for killing minorities. Woke is like Silly Putty -- it is anything the GOP wants it to be. It is apparently the root of all evil.

Treating people equally, being considerate of their cultural outlook, feeding poor folk, standing up against racism -- that's not "woke", that's simple decency. If that's such a big ask for someone, that tells me a lot about that someone.

[Minimalist]

Fuckface won because he lied his ass off and his idiot followers fell for it.....AGAIN.

He gained more diverse followers and fewer people voted against him than previously. Did more people get dumber?

Yes.

[Rhythmcs]

Exactly. And so, if "woke" is a thing that concerns a person, if "woke" is what they believe is between them and success...then all they're saying is that they are worth nothing if decency is a metric. That they cannot both contribute..and be decent. That they have no value and nothing to offer unless we all stop being decent..by force of law.

[brewerb]

OMFG, I've been TRIGGERED!

[Vorpal]

Woke was originally a term used by people to represent an expanded awareness of inequities in society. It has become more and more used pejoratively by the right for two reasons, one that is bogus and one that is valid.

1) To cloak actual biases covertly embracing the privilege structure of white heterosexual men of european descent.

2) As an expression of the unfairness generated by extreme, elitist rhetoric. This includes an overcorrection, a pendulum swing too far in a direction that corrupts reason and evidence in favor of the appearance of political correctness.

[Paleophyte]

Woke was a term originally used within the BLM movement. It has since been coopted as far-right weaslespeak to cover grab-bag of social issues, environment, economics, foreign policy, and pretty much everything "liberal". In doing so it has lost any real meaning, as can be demonstrated by asking any two conservatives what it means. It's now nothing more than a Republican dog-whistle. Republicans would do well to notice who's using it, because any politician wielding a dog-whistle thinks that you're his bitch. Its central tenet is that society is suffering from the oppression of the white man.

It exists as a term because even the far-right spin doctors realized that a pro-asshole platform would alienate too many moderates. A monosyllable was preferred.

So no, woke isn't a religion because it doesn't have any adherents, only detractors. The people telling you that it is are blowing smoke up your ass in an attempt to divide you against your countrymen because that's the only way that they can get elected.

What this has to do with philosophy I don't know, but I suspect that the OP is seeking cred for his position that simply can't be found in politics.

[Cavebear]

If being woke is just cultural sensitivity, that would be great.  We could then discuss where the threshold between self-interest and awareness of potentially biased interpretation of others might reasonably be situated.

I think Woke is becoming a prescribed set of truisms that may not be critisized for fear of an extreme rejection of  a questioning person.

We've already got words for that besides woke.

From Merriam-Webster dictionary "aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)". I don't see the term as a negative. But Felon-President Trump and his magarats have weaponized the term to mean weak and stupid. That's just something they do to most rational thoughts...

Other good words to use?

[brewerb]

I woke up to this, UGH!

[SYZ]

From a report in The Australian newspaper, June 2023:

How long has the disputed word "woke" been around
for and what was its original definition?

The term stretches back as far as the 1940s, when it
was used to symbolise awareness of social issues and
movements against injustice, inequality, and prejudice.
African-American novelist William Melvin Kelley first
defined the word in print in an article published in the
New York Times in 1962 called, "If You’re Woke You Dig It".

While the term seemed to disappear over the decades,
it came back with a vengeance in the early 2000s.

More than 40% of surveyed Australians couldn’t identify
the meaning of the word; only 12% knew what woke
meant, with another 26% describing themselves as woke.

I'm old enough to happily use the word as its intended
etymology suggests: as the  past tense and past participle
of "wake".   As per "Oh fuck!  I woke up with a start".

     I have no need to use silly misappropriated words.     

[Dānu]

There was an interesting Youtube video arguing that left and right as political identities don't really exist. I'll not opine on that, but one thing he did at the end was to suggest three things that could be done to avoid falling into the trap of letting identity politics lead you into undesirable behavior. One of those three was to be more granular in your language. If someone is advocating trans rights, say that and criticise or laud them for that instead of making the leap to lumping the person into a larger category that results in loading unnecessary baggage on the individual. Words like 'woke', liberal, MAGA, and extremist do more to distort any discussion or point and really don't add anything useful to what is being said.

[Deesse23]

Trump won the election in part because liberal moderates have failed to stand up to the extremists.

I think this is somehow equivalent to saying "the SPD and centrists have failed to stand up to the NSDAP" in the early 1930s*. One party is a bunch of lying violent thugs who have no limits and ethic safeguards to get what they want (which is a completely insane and incoherent narrative, completely inconsistent with reality), and the other isnt. At some point you (SPD etc) need to ask yourself if you want to give up your principles and become a lying, violent bunch of loons, to break all rules in order to preserve the rulebook. What do you do??

*Yes, Godwins law, i know, but i am out of fucks, for quite some time now, since some people wont get it even still.


Let me throw the question back at ya: What would YOU have done? Obviously, the idea of "open marked for ideas" kinda has proven to be a bit naive. Facts presented, to the public....well large parts of the public seem to be oblivious, even immune to facts in this age of www- and media-bullshitery.

[Deesse23]

There was an interesting Youtube video arguing that left and right as political identities don't really exist.  

And there is evidence for that, at least for the extremist parts of each wing:
Sahra Wagennecht, the leftest of the left*, who split the german left in two parts, now promotes policies (particularly xenophobia et.) that are identical to policies of the far right of the AfD. She was asked in an interview about this afaik (like "are you aware of the fact that you are competing with parts of the Afd fora certain part of the electorate?)", and she was quite awkward dealing with this uncomfortable truth.


*yes she IS against a free market n stuff. She IS a kinda commie

[Rhythmcs]

Same with maga. They're doing white dei at the top of the government to get white welfare at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. The dems can't wean themselves off the corporatist teat.

[Szuchow]

There was an interesting Youtube video arguing that left and right as political identities don't really exist.  

And there is evidence for that, at least for the extremist parts of each wing:
Sahra Wagennecht, the leftest of the left*, who split the german left in two parts, now promotes policies (particularly xenophobia et.) that are identical to policies of the far right of the AfD. She was asked in an interview about this afaik (like "are you aware of the fact that you are competing with parts of the Afd fora certain part of the electorate?)", and she was quite awkward dealing with this uncomfortable truth.


*yes she IS against a free market n stuff. She IS a kinda commie

It depends on how we define left. For me benchmark for extreme left is Lenin and for all his faults he was neither nationalist nor antisemite. So anyone who is either nationalist or antisemite quite simply isn't left at all just like Hitler wasn't despite calling his party "Socialist". Left (as far as I am concerned) obviously can't support laissez faire capitalism, it can't suck clergy cock or be nationalist. If it is then it ain't left despite using language of the left.

It's not that left and right not exist as political identities. It's more about them being song of the past, of age of mass parties when nowadays political identities are more fragmented and world look like "supermarket of ideas" where you can buy and try to mash together parts of any worldview. Left (and right I guess) can still be found but it's not as popular as it was in the times of yore.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Obviously, the idea of "open marked for ideas" kinda has proven to be a bit naive.

Yes and no.

The Democrats here did a piss-poor job of selling their own program. That the Trump campaign was louder and more clear about its aims and thereby got more votes, indicts the American polity, true.