After The Election

[Dānu]

[jerry mcmasters]

Zero sympathy you guys made your own bed now lie in it. Harsh? Absolutely especially as you don't support the orange turd however 60+% did and that's who I'm talking about.

I'm not clear on why this isn't a golden opportunity for the opposition.  If Trump is every bit the idiot everybody says he is, he destroys the economy and ruins every govt agency he touches.  Dems sweep in to victory in 2028, after huge gains in the midterms in 2026.

[pattylt]

Zero sympathy you guys made your own bed now lie in it. Harsh? Absolutely especially as you don't support the orange turd however 60+% did and that's who I'm talking about.

I'm not clear on why this isn't a golden opportunity for the opposition.  If Trump is every bit the idiot everybody says he is, he destroys the economy and ruins every govt agency he touches.  Dems sweep in to victory in 2028, after huge gains in the midterms in 2026.

That will depend on if the Dems message it correctly.  We have got to start pointing fingers early and often….something we seem to be terrible at.

[Dānu]

I'm gonna guess you haven't really thought that one through.

[jerry mcmasters]

I'm gonna guess you haven't really thought that one through.

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

[jerry mcmasters]

I'm not clear on why this isn't a golden opportunity for the opposition.  If Trump is every bit the idiot everybody says he is, he destroys the economy and ruins every govt agency he touches.  Dems sweep in to victory in 2028, after huge gains in the midterms in 2026.

That will depend on if the Dems message it correctly.  We have got to start pointing fingers early and often….something we seem to be terrible at.

I agree in principle, but execution is so so difficult.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

Zero sympathy you guys made your own bed now lie in it. Harsh? Absolutely especially as you don't support the orange turd however 60+% did and that's who I'm talking about.

And just how many of the 60% do you think post here? Put the broad brush away, thanks.

He was referring to the wider American
voting public when he says "you guys".

(my bolding)

Considering the bolded part above, I highly doubt it.

[Cavebear]

Actually, according to tonight's news, Trump's percentage of the vote has fallen below 50%...

[Thumpalumpacus]

Zero sympathy you guys made your own bed now lie in it. Harsh? Absolutely especially as you don't support the orange turd however 60+% did and that's who I'm talking about.

I'm not clear on why this isn't a golden opportunity for the opposition.  If Trump is every bit the idiot everybody says he is, he destroys the economy and ruins every govt agency he touches.  Dems sweep in to victory in 2028, after huge gains in the midterms in 2026.

... assuming that whole "official acts" SCOTUS ruling doesn't give him carte blanche. He's putting loyalists in positions to make use of that shitty ruling, counting on them to do the dirty work, with the fallout being that even if the people are unhappy with his presidency, the opposition will be appealing to a SCOTUS that has already ruled that his decisions taken in office aren't prosecutable.

[Mathilda]

I'm gonna guess you haven't really thought that one through.

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

You're assuming that you're living in a free and fair democracy.

[SYZ]

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

You're assuming that you're living in a free and fair democracy.

Yes.    False assumption.

When asked, most Australians would say that
we live in a democracy downunder.    Which is
only wishful thinking in any real world.

We have virtually little to no say in what our
state and federal governments do with our lives.

[jerry mcmasters]

I'm not clear on why this isn't a golden opportunity for the opposition.  If Trump is every bit the idiot everybody says he is, he destroys the economy and ruins every govt agency he touches.  Dems sweep in to victory in 2028, after huge gains in the midterms in 2026.

... assuming that whole "official acts" SCOTUS ruling doesn't give him carte blanche. He's putting loyalists in positions to make use of that shitty ruling, counting on them to do the dirty work, with the fallout being that even if the people are unhappy with his presidency, the opposition will be appealing to a SCOTUS that has already ruled that his decisions taken in office aren't prosecutable.

That is my assumption.  Time will tell.

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

You're assuming that you're living in a free and fair democracy.

It's far from perfect, but I am working with the assumption that the usual guardrails that have gotten us this far will hold up.  It's going to be an interesting four years.

(Don't get me wrong, I see no hope for the country long run, I just see its ruin having a different look and feel)

[jerry mcmasters]

You're assuming that you're living in a free and fair democracy.

Yes.    False assumption.

When asked, most Australians would say that
we live in a democracy downunder.    Which is
only wishful thinking in any real world.

We have virtually little to no say in what our
state and federal governments do with our lives.

Do you believe that whatever party is in control in Australia right now, they cannot be beaten by another party in the next election?  That's the analogy with what I'm describing here, I've not suggested our country isn't politically rotten and broken.

[Dānu]

I'm gonna guess you haven't really thought that one through.

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

You mean besides the point that those who supposedly will benefit will also be feeling the consequences of a ruined economy. It's analogous to the Hunter Biden pardon. Not pardoning his son would have been good politics, and the optics of the pardon are terrible. Still, not pardoning Hunter would have resulted in considerable suffering for Joe Biden's family. At what cost politics?

[Thumpalumpacus]

... assuming that whole "official acts" SCOTUS ruling doesn't give him carte blanche. He's putting loyalists in positions to make use of that shitty ruling, counting on them to do the dirty work, with the fallout being that even if the people are unhappy with his presidency, the opposition will be appealing to a SCOTUS that has already ruled that his decisions taken in office aren't prosecutable.

That is my assumption.  Time will tell.

I'm just not a fan of assuming optimal outcomes when the stakes of being wrong are so large.

[Minimalist]

The last undecided House race has gone to the Democrats.  The republiKKKunts will have a 220-215 "majority" which is down one from the last congress...but Fuckface has tapped three of his favorite House assholes for administration jobs which means even that "majority" is virtually non-existent when 2-3 idiots can shoot down any proposal.

The Klown Kar is running at full speed.  


CNN estimated the total cost of this election - which frankly seems like more of an auction than an election - was over $16 billion.  $10 billion of that went to House races by outside groups - mainly billionaire sleazebags who want to buy themselves more tax cuts.  That seems like a lot of money pissed away for no significant gain.

[Antonio]

The last undecided House race has gone to the Democrats.  The republiKKKunts will have a 220-215 "majority" which is down one from the last congress...but Fuckface has tapped three of his favorite House assholes for administration jobs which means even that "majority" is virtually non-existent when 2-3 idiots can shoot down any proposal.

The Klown Kar is running at full speed.  


CNN estimated the total cost of this election - which frankly seems like more on an auction than an election - was over $16 billion.  $10 billion of that went to House races by outside groups - mainly billionaire sleazebags who want to buy themselves more tax cuts.  That seems like a lot of money pissed away for no significant gain.

That kind of money makes a democracy a joke

[Minimalist]

Democracy?  What a load of shit.

[Inkubus]

There is general agreement in the economic research on the effects of Trump’s trade and tariff wars in his first term as president, in which he placed tariffs on about $380bn of US imports. The overall impact on living standards for US workers and most Americans is found to be negative, with the cost of the tariffs being absorbed by US consumers. Employment overall did not increase, and may have fallen due to the negative impact of retaliatory tariffs Link.

And afaics not one of his buddies advising him against it.

We are truly fucked.

[jerry mcmasters]

I don't think it's a sin to shoot from the hip a bit, so yeah it's not my PhD dissertation.  What am I overlooking?

You mean besides the point that those who supposedly will benefit will also be feeling the consequences of a ruined economy.  It's analogous to the Hunter Biden pardon.  Not pardoning his son would have been good politics, and the optics of the pardon are terrible.  Still, not pardoning Hunter would have resulted in considerable suffering for Joe Biden's family.  At what cost politics?

I'm not overlooking it, I'm counting on it.  You have to have economic suffering or people won't vote against the party they believe is causing it.  The price is steep but the payoff is worth it; do yall want the Rs out in 2028 or not?

[Rhythmcs]

I'd take the r's in in 2028...that's where we're at right now. When the donald gets up there and barks about beating republicans, beating democrats, beating them all..he means it.

[jerry mcmasters]

That is my assumption.  Time will tell.

I'm just not a fan of assuming optimal outcomes when the stakes of being wrong are so large.

?  It's just forum chat.  You and I making assumptions has no bearing on the outcomes.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm just not a fan of assuming optimal outcomes when the stakes of being wrong are so large.

?  It's just forum chat.  You and I making assumptions has no bearing on the outcomes.

Right, we're just having a chat. And I'm expressing my distaste for optimistic assumptions in these conditions. I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

Of course we can't change anything with our words here. I'm unsure where I argued otherwise. I'll settle for changing one mind at a time.

[jerry mcmasters]

?  It's just forum chat.  You and I making assumptions has no bearing on the outcomes.

Right, we're just having a chat. And I'm expressing my distaste for optimistic assumptions in these conditions. I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

Of course we can't change anything with our words here. I'm unsure where I argued otherwise. I'll settle for changing one mind at a time.

As a hypothetical I guess I'm wondering if what I'm saying has any agreement here.  It rests on two assumptions, which may not prove true: 1, There will be a presidential election in 2028.  2, Trump's economic policies in  2024-2028 will be shit and cause misery, inflation, etc.  I would have great optimism if I was a Dem; of course there will be suffering but sometimes you have to go backwards to regroup and go forward, let people get whacked with the hard stick of reality and they will come back to their senses and realize how good they had it with Dem presidents of the last few decades (I'm imagining this from a Dem perspective).  

If we just rule in an assumption of fascist manipulation that will make any 2028 election a sham, then yes the point is moot, but I am optimistic things won't get that dire.  As always, I am a ray of sunshine in the gloomy fog.

[Dānu]

You mean besides the point that those who supposedly will benefit will also be feeling the consequences of a ruined economy.  It's analogous to the Hunter Biden pardon.  Not pardoning his son would have been good politics, and the optics of the pardon are terrible.  Still, not pardoning Hunter would have resulted in considerable suffering for Joe Biden's family.  At what cost politics?

I'm not overlooking it, I'm counting on it.  You have to have economic suffering or people won't vote against the party they believe is causing it.  The price is steep but the payoff is worth it; do yall want the Rs out in 2028 or not?

We have a good map going into 2026, so we don't really need help to regain some power. So the economic suffering would be gratuitous. Additionally, it's not like a ruined economy is going to right itself quickly, or even at all. There are plenty of economies that take a long time to recover. It took two additional years past the pandemic for the U.S. economy to recover, and it was one of the fastest to recover worldwide. And some economies simply don't recover. Does the term 'stagflation' mean anything to you? There were many economists predicting that was where the U.S. was headed in Biden's term. And I don't think anybody would consider it a win if we became like Argentina. These are real consequences, and what would they be in exchange for? Superficial power that results in nothing being changed due to gridlock and business-as-usual politics in Washington? How is that a win? How is it a win if you can't afford gas, food, or rent? All you're doing is showing your privilege, that it's something that you personally wouldn't worry about. Your empathy and compassion for the situation of the average American is truly underwhelming. No, an actual win would be material good times for Americans. Not political power which ends up being impotent anyway. The ideal situation would be for Trump to do little or nothing and not harm the economy, regardless of what that means for Washington.