What it means to have good education?

[Szuchow]

When I was in school I was taught (besides obvious things like math, physics biology or history) music, drawing and rudiments of painting (thanks to teacher who was painter, it wasn't in standar curriculum). There was philosophy, ethics and studies about wider world culture both ancient and new. On the other hand schools were obsessed with when but not why when it came to history, using keywords when writing essays (to the point that we were penalized for not using them, regardless of essay merits) and in the case of English writing perfect letter of complaint while ignoring day to day conversations. Biggest fault of Polish system is memorization though - students end with wide (if shallow) knowledge but it flees from their minds quickly.

It's only in University that I really was taught that why's are more important than when's and was forced to learn how to search for things that I need instead of relying on subject book. 

What education did you have and what you would consider to be a good education?

[Alan V]

What education did you have and what you would consider to be a good education?

I met the requirements and graduated a year early from high school because I was not impressed by the school, but went on to drop out of two different universities.  I was an art major since I was artistically talented, but my interest in pursuing a career in the arts collapsed.  At the first university, I took art classes which convinced me that an art career was not for me.  At the second university, I struggled to find another interest to pursue, but failed to find a career path.

So I got technical training as a draftsman and went to work.  I figured that I could study whatever interested me in my spare time instead, and be much happier in the process.  And that's exactly what happened.  I collected books and read about one topic after another, and received my general education that way.  At the age of 68, I am still learning in the same way.  That's what I consider a good education, to be enabled to continue learning instead of losing interest. (In contrast, those who are taught religious dogmas are stunted in their learning.)

Had I been able to focus on another specialization at the time, I assume I would have been a successful student and graduated from a university.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I received a strong education in my four years in Iran, much better than my eight years in America. By fifth grade, math was pre-algebra, took French classes, cultural studies (separate from history, unlike America). No philosophy offered.

I pretty much sleepwalked through my last six years in American schools. It wasn't until college that I had any challenging classes. At least American schools at the time offered stronger arts programs, so I took a couple of years of art, a couple of years of guitar, and a year of drama.

[Minimalist]

A good education depends largely on where you are and when.

College - when I went to it in the "old days" actually required some work....unlike today when it largely consists of looking shit up on Google.  Most of the individual courses were not all that interesting but I did learn how to research and write.


In Pakistan, a good education apparently means memorizing the fucking koran.  No wonder the place is backward.

[Szuchow]

I received a strong education in my four years in Iran, much better than my eight years in America. By fifth grade, math was pre-algebra, took French classes, cultural studies (separate from history, unlike America). No philosophy offered.

I pretty much sleepwalked through my last six years in American schools. It wasn't until college that I had any challenging classes. At least American schools at the time offered stronger arts programs, so I took a couple of years of art, a couple of years of guitar, and a year of drama.

Interesting, I wouldn't think that Iran would beat USA. 

I would like more subjects and courses to choose from when during my University years - history of Lithuania or history of aviation weren't exactly my speed and yet still were among best that could be chosen. Thankfully core courses weren't bad.

[pattylt]

I, too, am older. While I started school in Ohio, we moved to Florida for 2nd through 6th grade, then back to Ohio for 7th through graduation. Our high school was relatively new and everyone was placed into tracks. College, Technical or business. While all tracks had common requirements for math, history and basic science, by the sophomore year they diverged. I was on the college track and my prep for college was quite good. We had to take speech where we learned how to do presentations and debates. Math required algebra and geometry…higher math available if you wanted to go into a science. I didn’t so I never had calculus or chemistry but, I did have psychology and higher English literature classes.

My only issue was that I did eventually decide on a science career so had to take some intro courses in chemistry and biology…it worked out well because it was still a fresh skill when I went after a 10 year hiatus!

I was fortunate to have teachers (not all of them) that not only taught me knowledge but how to reason, how to be skeptical and how to find answers on my own.

I have three grandkids and watched how their schools operate. We have good schools here and I really don’t have any major complaints. The only thing I do wish for future students is the learn basic philosophical principles and how to reason through questions better. Oh, and while I don’t believe in burdening kids with massive amounts of homework, I do think small scheduled amounts is needed. I remember having four different teachers all putting a heavy load of homework on us at the same time. Co ordinate it and it’s much better instead of expecting a kid to miss sleep to get it all done. Leave that to college!

[Vorpal]

In AP history in high school it depends on the teacher. One in particular said to study the historians possible biases and motivations as much as the written history.

[skyking]

"A good education " is very subjective.
If a person goes back on their own time and cost as an adult, they have different reasons than a young person fresh out of preparatory school. Frequently the latter have no clue what they really want or what interests them. I read that in the posts above.
My high school education was similar to yours, Suchow. Not nearly enough about the "why" and it was pathetic. I see our current social situation in this country and it is no wonder at all. The average adult learned a bunch of rote BS without any real understanding.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I received a strong education in my four years in Iran, much better than my eight years in America. By fifth grade, math was pre-algebra, took French classes, cultural studies (separate from history, unlike America). No philosophy offered.

I pretty much sleepwalked through my last six years in American schools. It wasn't until college that I had any challenging classes. At least American schools at the time offered stronger arts programs, so I took a couple of years of art, a couple of years of guitar, and a year of drama.

Interesting, I wouldn't think that Iran would beat USA. 

I attended a private, international school there. It was not part of the Iranian public-school system, and accepted students based on competitive exam.

I would like more subjects and courses to choose from when during my University years - history of Lithuania or history of aviation weren't exactly my speed and yet still were among best that could be chosen. Thankfully core courses weren't bad.

My public college offered some interesting stuff, but was more designed for preparing students for a university. I attended on a liberal arts major, with a minor in English, so I got a fairly broad overview without drilling down into any one subject aside from English -- physical geography and anthropology, Native American studies, astronomy -- which I really enjoyed as I find all those topics interesting. However, being introductory courses, the depth was lacking. That's where reading kicked in; I had the education in the basic concepts of a topic, and that allowed me to supplement it with deeper and more involved reading.

[Szuchow]

"A good education " is very subjective.

Sure. But it's nice to know what various people deem to be a good one.

My high school education was similar to yours, Suchow. Not nearly enough about the "why" and it was pathetic. I see our current social situation in this country and it is no wonder at all. The average adult learned a bunch of rote BS without any real understanding.

I can say the same about Poland. People are supposedly well educated yet they fall for simplest tricks of fascists. It's no accident I'm afraid that Poland education system produces people with wide encyclopedic knowledge and lack of ability to apply it.

[Szuchow]

I attended a private, international school there. It was not part of the Iranian public-school system, and accepted students based on competitive exam.

It explain a few things I guess. I never was lucky - or unlucky - to attend private school.

My public college offered some interesting stuff, but was more designed for preparing students for a university. I attended on a liberal arts major, with a minor in English, so I got a fairly broad overview without drilling down into any one subject aside from English -- physical geography and anthropology, Native American studies, astronomy -- which I really enjoyed as I find all those topics interesting. However, being introductory courses, the depth was lacking. That's where reading kicked in; I had the education in the basic concepts of a topic, and that allowed me to supplement it with deeper and more involved reading.

Big part of my University education was preparation for work - I was taught to be archivist and Google tells me what should be translated as conservationist (that is dude who allow or deny to repair old buildings). Besides that it was history of the world, Europe and Poland (and aforementioned of course plus a subject or two) as I was working for master's degree in History. Lastly there were things like Latin, philosophy and demographic studies plus critical reading of sources. It might look eclectic but generally courses supported one another. I can't say that it was bad but I still would like to have some genocide studies or something on Marxism. 

Still University taught me to self study so I can learn whatever I want and that was biggest plus of attending it.

[pattylt]

In AP history in high school it depends on the teacher.  One in particular said to study the historians possible biases and motivations as much as the written history.

The only rote learning I remember having was history.  It was tedious, boring and I hated it.  For years, I assumed I just hated history until I rediscover “good” history in my 30’s.  All we did in hs history was memorize names and dates and wars.  Completely male focused due to that.  It’s like there wasn’t one woman that existed in history!  Later, written by good authors that actually told stories and the surrounding events that lead up to wars, I became engrossed in it.

Good teacher + good curriculum = interesting history.

[brewerb]

What do I consider a good education, do I think I had a good education or what do I think of others educations?

I'm content with the education I received, some parts lacking and others exceeding. It certainly didn't fail me but I know peers that had access to the same level(s) of education yet didn't attain the same level of success (how ever you want to define it) in life. Maybe it's the person that attains the education they desire.

[Alan V]

I consider our brain to be buckets with holes in the bottom. Whatever we learn leaks out slowly over time unless we use it somehow.

Luckily using it includes thinking about it. That's why we also have to be interested to retain what we learn.

Like with so many other things in life, our efforts are often wasted.

[pattylt]

Thinking about higher education, I had the not so unique experience of going twice over 10 years apart. Right out of high school I went to Ohio State for a year+1 semester. I had no clue what I wanted to major in other than dorm life (which I excelled at). I wasn’t flunking anything, I was just unfocused and still maturing. So, I quit. Fast forward over ten years, I’m now married with two kids, one in elementary and one in middle school.

But! I now know what I want to be when I grow up (since I did grow up). A medical technologist. While my credits from OSU transferred to the Junior College in Wyoming, only my English requirement was met. I needed chemistry for those that hadn’t had high school chem. I hadn’t taken much at OSU that helped me get back into the swing of science classes, math, biochemistry but, I was focused and determined…and that made all the difference. I was the oldest person in every one of my classes. I was the only one that ever raised my hand to ask clarifications (even though there was head nodding by others agreeing with my questions). I aced every subject and had my 2year Associates degree with a 4.0 (on a 1-4 scale). I was quickly accepted into the University of Northern Colorado to obtain my Bachelor’s and also accepted into the Med Tech program for my clinical. We moved to Colorado for me to do this.

Until I got into these upper level and specific classes, I rarely saw other students highly focused and also determined like I was. Now I was among motivated students (mostly). Because of my experience, I really don’t think most kids should enter University/College until they know what they want. I watched too many kids just drift from class to class, barely learning much. A few were exceptions but overall, they were drifting and not really learning. I told my kids I wanted them to go to college (not everyone was like now) and waiting a few years is just fine. Find a goal and then achieve it…don’t expect some college classes to find it for you. Nowadays, we shove almost every kid into college right after HS and I think it’s often a waste of money…or, at the least, an expensive way to mature our kids.

Did you college grads go in right after HS? Were you focused and motivated? Did you take some time off before college? Am I the outlier of someone that was slow to mature and get motivated?

[Fireball]

I started at a JC right out of HS and lasted one day. Kept at my job at a local car dealership. Didn't know what I wanted to do. Farted around for about 2-1/2 years and joined the US Navy. After that worked for a short time at a repair shop where the boss was giving my labor away- undercharging the customers. I got half the labor, and I guess he made enough money on the other mechanics that it didn't bother him. Went to work in an auto parts store, making more money at minimum wage. Figured I ought to go to college and enrolled as a physics major. Looked into a mathematics degree but didn't see the utility unless I got a Ph D, and I had no money for that. The second semester, I found a mechanic job where I was appropriately compensated for my work. I stayed on the uni treadmill though, and graduated with a B Sc in physics, after 6-1/2 years. I worked the last 6 years as a mechanic, and managed to scoop up a really pretty physics major in my modern physics class. We've been married 43 years as of last February. I didn't have stellar grades, as working for a living was an equal priority. There were jobs for mechanically inclined people at the defense company that I started at right after graduation. Had I known, I could have (potentially) gotten one of those positions. The highest grade of mechanical tech made about $100k a year, and overtime was readily available, most years. Probably would have made the same money without the 6-1/2 years of college expense. Ancient history- I retired 10 years ago at age 62. No regrets. I guess it was worth it. It was largely clean indoor work without a lot of heavy lifting.

I don't think I've ever made a post this long ever before on the internet. 

[brewerb]

Straight to undergrad, changed schools in my junior year. A year off between undergrad and grad to make money so that I could keep the loans down.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Did you college grads go in right after HS?  Were you focused and motivated?  Did you take some time off before college?  Am I the outlier of someone that was slow to mature and get motivated?

I went into college right after high-school, but after about 40 units I got bored -- still pulling a 3.68 GPA -- and dropped out to join the Air Force. I returned after discharge to finish my AA degree, but never continued to university; I had a heavy job and a young son.

[Vorpal]

I completed a Bachelor of Arts with a double major immediately after high school. I went to commuter school and made no real friends at school.  I was motivated and interested in learning.  My social life was at work.  I had a part time job often with full time hours through out saving 20k for grad school.

[Szuchow]

Did you college grads go in right after HS?  Were you focused and motivated?  Did you take some time off before college?  Am I the outlier of someone that was slow to mature and get motivated?

I took a gap year after finishing HS to earn the money I would need for living. Education itself is free but housing is not (there is scholarship and I've got one for grades but it still would be too little). I was motivated as I thought that my future depends on my studies. Also I worked in Germany after finishing every school year so I could not afford falling even one course. This allowed me to skip several exams and ace the others and helped my work ethics as I knew that I must do things correctly now.

[Dānu]

We do such a horrible job of educating in the U.S. But I was my own worst enemy. I'm a quick learner and so my not needing to work to learn led to terrible laziness. My education itself offered chances I probably neglected.

[pattylt]

We do such a horrible job of educating in the U.S.  But I was my own worst enemy.  I'm a quick learner and so my not needing to work to learn led to terrible laziness.  My education itself offered chances I probably neglected.

My son was the same.  The first time he had a class that challenged him, he just quit it since he was used to just getting an A with little effort.  I tend to blame myself for this as I knew he was smart and doing the minimum to get by.  Challenging him earlier may have made a big difference…or, he was destined to be this way no matter what.  He later regretted it.

[c172]

When I was in school I was taught (besides obvious things like math, physics biology or history) music, drawing and rudiments of painting (thanks to teacher who was painter, it wasn't in standar curriculum). There was philosophy, ethics and studies about wider world culture both ancient and new. On the other hand schools were obsessed with when but not why when it came to history, using keywords when writing essays (to the point that we were penalized for not using them, regardless of essay merits) and in the case of English writing perfect letter of complaint while ignoring day to day conversations. Biggest fault of Polish system is memorization though - students end with wide (if shallow) knowledge but it flees from their minds quickly.

It's only in University that I really was taught that why's are more important than when's and was forced to learn how to search for things that I need instead of relying on subject book.

Wow, this got pretty big (rightly). 

Starting in high school, because my memories before that are fuzzy, 9th grade was at a schoolhouse in San Diego on the edge of Balboa Park in the city (6th Av. and Thorn Street.). We met on the first floor; the second, IIRC, was an acupuncture clinic. The school is defunct now. I surely had fun there, but looking back, it wasn't a rigorous place and didn't check your homework too well. Nobody was violent, but everybody was quirky. Some pleasant kids, though. Mixed grades, 9-12th. Basic stuff. Only elective I remember was anthropology, with the headmaster Chuck. He had spent lots of time with the Hopi in Arizona and was a well known expert on them. 

After 9th, my biological father died of the effects of Agent Orange, which was used in the Vietnam War. My mother remarried around that time, and made the decision to move us to the Tampa Bay area. My first school there, for 10th grade, was in the city of Tampa, across the bay from me. We addressed the teachers in typical formal fashion. Everybody there had some sort of issue, whether it be ADHD, ASD, or something else (I had what IIRC are "non-specific learning disabilities"). Teachers would often lose control. Our Spanish Teacher, a 500-lb guy from Puerto Rico, would regularly flirt with a girl in my class, and grade her easily (she wasn't one to ask for that. She at least seemed pretty weirded out).

In the summer after that year, my mother was made aware of rumors concerning the headmaster at the KKK. My parents (mother and adopted father) decided upon a fairly typical Catholic school. You know the ones. Several hundred students, pride in the athletic department (Go Marauders!), some clubs and some IB classes. Bigger classes, but I liked the environment better. But I did continue to struggle with my LDs. Despite that, I liked all my teachers, and they all seemed talented. I just needed something more, like a study hall. But I met some good peers there.

The Catholic school still exists, and thrives. But my parents moved back to San Diego's North County, and I finished HS at a boarding school of a couple hundred in near-east suburban Phoenix. First time I had seen so many minorities, really. I was a bit sheltered in that respect. But this school was majority Chinese and Arabic, but with some whites, too. Lots of ARAMCO families. Again, smallish school, but they loved their sports, which included the obligatory football and basketball (the former very good), but also tennis and rodeo. I liked most of my classes. Took some interesting things, like speech (which used a vidcam. And now, 30 years later, we have YouTube. I never predicted this). Art was good, too, but physics was very hard to get a grasp of. My social life got a boost, though. Always ate at the cafeteria with the same two girls (and their friends). I was class of '94. The school folded to make way for an affluent subdivision. 

College was in southeast Vermont, right near the New Hampshire and Mass borders. Town of 1100 outside a town of 8500 (2000 and 12000 now). The college was tiny (200 at the time, almost 500 now) and required some sort of LD diagnosis, or dyslexia. I adored our tri-state region, but residing at a college where I didn't understand others' ADHD and other LDs, and they didn't understand mine, depression set in. I did enjoy going on trips to Amherst, MA and Hanover, NH for big college hockey and women's basketball, and a Red Sox game, and a mall in Cambridge, Mass (Harvard's quite the beauty!). 

The college set everybody up with an advisor, who would meet a period a day and go over homework or organizational stuff. I also took a study skills course, which was interesting, and art history and psych, which were also good. Small classes. Maybe 6:1? I did graduate with an A.A., Liberal Arts. All they had at the time.

I spent less than a year thereafter living at a lodge owned by the Unitarian Universalists in western North Carolina. I sort of liked the area, but it was very rural, and even Asheville, 50 straight miles away, was lacking in infrastructure. Never occurred to me to explore Atlanta, Charlotte, the Trianglke or the Triad, all much bigger areas. I took the time to explore universities to go to, and settled on Sac State (California State University, Sacramento). Going into Sac State, I really had no clue what I was going to major in, and I didn't have a good relationship with advising. I took everything from Hispanic studies to computer science to my favorite, occupational health and safety. But eventually, I burned out, and moved on with my life. 

What education did you have and what you would consider to be a good education?

TL'DR, I went to four private high schools because reasons. In retrospect, my first two were a joke, and my last two were pretty good. But if I had had kids, I'd have taken the route of enrolling them in public school (and live in a good school district), and endeavoring to have them all attend the same high school all four years. Moving around complicated my social life (and thus skills), and my academics. I'd also have them join an academic and/or sports club every semester, and have them maybe get a job at whatever age that is allowed to occur. I never felt very involved, and I think the academics and the other things of life are all potentially important. 

But with that comes making sure the kids' mental health is taken care of. Burnout is real, and depressing.