PRRI Survey: The American Religious Landscape in 2023

[CapriMark1]

PRRI Survey: The American Religious Landscape in 2023

I wanted to point out this survey.  Lots of interesting information. 
Short version:  White religious subgroups are in decline and the religious unaffiliated are rising.

This is not new information, but this survey shows a continuation of previous decline of religion in the US.

But I want to point out something I noticed some years back:

https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/236e2590-4352-48c1-8c74-9998ff4c1450_1032x630.png

In this graph, the results of 2023 are compared to 2013 by age group.  I've seen similar graphs before and they indicate that younger generations are less religious.  But if you dig a bit deeper, this seems to point to the idea that the decrease in overall religiosity is due to younger generations entering and older generations leaving. 

Put another way, a generation's religiosity doesn't change much as they get older, and the overall change is due to the older generation dying off.

This particular graph isn't as clear as others I have seen, but this one isn't inconsistent with the idea.

What do you think?

[SYZ]

Here in Australia, the religiously unaffiliated group accounts
for 39% of our population (v. US at 27%), with atheism now
exceeding each of the Catholic and Anglican religions by numbers.

The number of people affiliated with Christianity in Australia
decreased from 12.2 million (52.1%) in 2016 to 11.1 million
(43.9%) in 2021. This decrease occurred across most ages,
with the largest decrease for young adults (18-25 years).

Interestingly—and for some unknown reason—the Federal Census
has, amongst numerous other religions, an option to select either
"no religion" or "atheism".  

I think any distinction implied by this is prone to inadvertently
erroneous responses, is confusing, and unnecessary, and could
also misrepresent the true number of sell-described atheists.

[pattylt]

I think it’s also interesting that the 65+ age group is less religious than previously.
This is the age group that all grew up with religion in their youth and while the numbers aren’t high, it’s still significant. It’s not like only the religious are dying…they’re still losing numbers! When those of us 65+ now are gone, it’s the end of the era where everyone went to church or Sunday school.

Religions are always hopeful that those that stray in their youth will come back as they age and that looks pretty unlikely. Any predictions when religion will become an insignificant number? I doubt it’ll be completely gone but I’ll settle for insignificant like flat earthers…

[Reltzik]

I think this might have something to do with the theistic desperation to get back into the schools.

[Fireball]

I'm hoping for a world where the Vatican has been found irrelevant, and they have a fire sale on stolen artworks, the proceeds of which are used to assuage the pain (such as it can) of the people so injured by that organization. If there is anything left, it could be used to help the poor. Wot!? Yes, I have been drinking, why do you ask? 

[Cavebear]

I'm hoping for a world where the Vatican has been found irrelevant, and they have a fire sale on stolen artworks, the proceeds of which are used to assuage the pain (such as it can) of the people so injured by that organization. If there is anything left, it could be used to help the poor. Wot!? Yes, I have been drinking, why do you ask? 

"In vino, veritas". I'm not saying that alcohol improves thoughts exactly, but it does reduce inhibitions about saying what you think. And I'm not saying that a whole bottle of wine improves your thinking. A small amount of wine (my preference) is about like a couple of smokes of MJ. You get different connections in the mind. Not that I want too much where I type "Tramp grabbled the poodium and fronted it", but sometimes I see connections between events I wouldn't have "without".

But to your post... I equally hope for a world where the Vatican (and all other religious organizations) are irrelevant. We humans went from "many gods of nature" to a few single gods, to some understanding of how the world actual works. In every step of the way, superstitions were reduced and cast aside. As we slowly turn to more factually-based ways of understanding our surroundings, we escape more false thoughts.

I am sure that (eventually), we will all cast aside religious thoughts. I haven't heard from many flat-earthers or earth-centrics lately. Some day, the superstitious theists will disappear as well.. Not in my lifetime, but there seems to be an inevitable path toward factualism.

[mordant]

Any predictions when religion will become an insignificant number? I doubt it’ll be completely gone but I’ll settle for insignificant like flat earthers…

I have always said that religion will never completely disappear from human life and memory. The most that can be hoped for is that it becomes marginalized and not taken seriously by society generally.

I think we will get there eventually, very eventually. It will take a few thousand more years at this rate. I'm very willing, even eager, to be proven wrong ;-)

[Minimalist]

"In vino, veritas"

Vespasian was a cool dude.

[Fireball]

I'm hoping for a world where the Vatican has been found irrelevant, and they have a fire sale on stolen artworks, the proceeds of which are used to assuage the pain (such as it can) of the people so injured by that organization. If there is anything left, it could be used to help the poor. Wot!? Yes, I have been drinking, why do you ask? 

"In vino, veritas".  I'm not saying that alcohol improves thoughts exactly, but it does reduce inhibitions about saying what you think.  And I'm not saying that a whole bottle of wine improves your thinking.  A small amount of wine (my preference) is about like a couple of smokes of MJ.  You get different connections in the mind.  Not that I want too much where I type "Tramp grabbled the poodium and fronted it", but sometimes I see connections between events I wouldn't have "without".

But to your post...  I equally hope for a world where the Vatican (and all other religious organizations) are irrelevant.  We humans went from "many gods of nature" to a few single gods, to some understanding of how the world actual works.  In every step of the way, superstitions were reduced and cast aside.  As we slowly turn to more factually-based ways of understanding our surroundings, we escape more false thoughts.

I am sure that (eventually), we will all cast aside religious thoughts.  I haven't heard from many flat-earthers or earth-centrics lately.  Some day, the superstitious theists will disappear as well..  Not in my lifetime, but there seems to be an inevitable path toward factualism.

For the humor impaired, I wasn't drinking. It was meant to be sarcastic about expectations from the RCC. Must be drunk to expect anything.

[brewerb]

[Reltzik]

I have always said that religion will never completely disappear from human life and memory. The most that can be hoped for is that it becomes marginalized and not taken seriously by society generally.

I think we will get there eventually, very eventually. It will take a few thousand more years at this rate. I'm very willing, even eager, to be proven wrong ;-)

Disappearing from human life is one thing, but from human memory?  I'd prefer it if humanity does remember religions like Catholicism.  Cautionary tales like that are important.

[SYZ]

Everything else being equal, the more religious the individual
in the US today, the higher the probability that the individual
identifies with or leans toward the Republican party. I called
this the “R and R rule” in my 2012 book on religion, found the
phenomenon alive and well in my 2014 review of Gallup data,
and now, nine years later, Gallup’s data confirm that this religiosity
gap is more evident than ever.

Across the combined 2021-2023 Gallup data, equal proportions
of Americans identified as Democratic or Democratic-leaning (46%)
or Republican or Republican-leaning (46%).

But the group of Americans who are religious "nones" split 63% Democratic
versus 26% Republican.



This says a lot in my opinion.   If you believe in God,
then you're far more likely to see Trump as some sort
of demigod—a mortal raised to divine rank.                 

  —Gallup, The Politics of Religion, Frank Newport, 1 September 2023.

[brewerb]

^^^ There you have it, evidence that religion makes you less sane.

[Reltzik]

^^^ There you have it, evidence that religion makes you less sane.

I'm seeing correlation, but not causation.  How are you eliminating the possibility that mental instability leads to religion?  (It would explain hearing the voice of God, among other things.)

[Rhythmcs]

Before the christian fever broke, back in the early 80's, the overwhelming majority of college students that responded to a survey about their religious lives reported having auditory hallucinations. Something like 75%. The same question today puts us at somewhere between 5-10% saying as much. Now, we can believe that just 40 years ago 3/4 of american youth had what is most often a hereditary condition which went untreated, undiagnosed, and somehow didn't pass on to the next gen...or...we can accept that respondents reply to questions about their religious experience in religious language. That is to say utterances which are metaphorically apt and thematically appropriate but not factually accurate.

You're much more likely to be dealing with religious language than medical phenomena. A quick series of questions resolves this. Is the voice embodied or disembodied? Left, right, or stereo? Is it gendered? Does it have an accent or dialect? In my experience, people who utter the phrase rarely appreciate those questions. They know you're asking them if they're nuts and they're not talking about that at all. They want you to take them seriously, not literally.

[brewerb]

^^^ There you have it, evidence that religion makes you less sane.

I'm seeing correlation, but not causation.  How are you eliminating the possibility that mental instability leads to religion?  (It would explain hearing the voice of God, among other things.)

Ya got that backwards. Being a part of religion includes embracing less sane ideas. Religion is the source. I didn't comment on mental instability leading to religion (or religious experience). I think that it can, but that would be a different discussion and considered on an individual, case by case, basis.

[brewerb]

Before the christian fever broke, back in the early 80's, the overwhelming majority of college students that responded to a survey about their religious lives reported having auditory hallucinations.  Something like 75%.  The same question today puts us at somewhere between 5-10% saying as much.    Now, we can believe that just 40 years ago 3/4 of american youth had what is most often a hereditary condition which went untreated, undiagnosed, and somehow didn't pass on to the next gen...or...we can accept that respondents reply to questions about their religious experience in religious language.  That is to say utterances which are metaphorically apt and thematically appropriate but not factually accurate.  

You're much more likely to be dealing with religious language than medical phenomena.  A quick series of questions resolves this.  Is the voice embodied or disembodied?  Left, right, or stereo?  Is it gendered?  Does it have an accent or dialect?  In my experience, people who utter the phrase rarely appreciate those questions.  They know you're asking them if they're nuts and they're not talking about that at all.  They want you to take them seriously, not literally.

I'd also include that they are trained to respond that way, whether true or not, to be a member of the group. Think of it as a type of factitious disorder. Example: Pentecostal Glossolalia.

[Reltzik]

I'm seeing correlation, but not causation.  How are you eliminating the possibility that mental instability leads to religion?  (It would explain hearing the voice of God, among other things.)

Ya got that backwards. Being a part of religion includes embracing less sane ideas. Religion is the source. I didn't comment on mental instability leading to religion (or religious experience). I think that it can, but that would be a different discussion and considered on an individual, case by case, basis.

I wasn't saying that it WAS mental issue leading to religion, I was just pointing out that you hadn't covered that base.  And second, what about the scenario in which the religion originates with people who have mental problems and then joined by more healthy individuals?  That would be instability leading to religion too.

(Yes, I'm playing around with this for fun.  Not going fora serious debate.)

[Edible crust]

Ya got that backwards. Being a part of religion includes embracing less sane ideas. Religion is the source. I didn't comment on mental instability leading to religion (or religious experience). I think that it can, but that would be a different discussion and considered on an individual, case by case, basis.

I wasn't saying that it WAS mental issue leading to religion, I was just pointing out that you hadn't covered that base.  And second, what about the scenario in which the religion originates with people who have mental problems and then joined by more healthy individuals?  That would be instability leading to religion too.

(Yes, I'm playing around with this for fun.  Not going fora serious debate.)

Religion is just a part of life for some people mental issues or not. Being spoon fed and idea from an early age is the biggest contributory factor possibly followed by guilt or fear.


I don't think that the vast majority of religious people truly believe...They rarely practice what they preach. Saying one thing and doing another as the majority do proves the point.

[brewerb]

Ya got that backwards. Being a part of religion includes embracing less sane ideas. Religion is the source. I didn't comment on mental instability leading to religion (or religious experience). I think that it can, but that would be a different discussion and considered on an individual, case by case, basis.

I wasn't saying that it WAS mental issue leading to religion, I was just pointing out that you hadn't covered that base.  And second, what about the scenario in which the religion originates with people who have mental problems and then joined by more healthy individuals?  That would be instability leading to religion too.

(Yes, I'm playing around with this for fun.  Not going fora serious debate.)

That's what I recognize in some cults. Usually the 'more healthy' joiners also have issues.

[Cavebear]

"In vino, veritas".  I'm not saying that alcohol improves thoughts exactly, but it does reduce inhibitions about saying what you think.  And I'm not saying that a whole bottle of wine improves your thinking.  A small amount of wine (my preference) is about like a couple of smokes of MJ.  You get different connections in the mind.  Not that I want too much where I type "Tramp grabbled the poodium and fronted it", but sometimes I see connections between events I wouldn't have "without".

But to your post...  I equally hope for a world where the Vatican (and all other religious organizations) are irrelevant.  We humans went from "many gods of nature" to a few single gods, to some understanding of how the world actual works.  In every step of the way, superstitions were reduced and cast aside.  As we slowly turn to more factually-based ways of understanding our surroundings, we escape more false thoughts.

I am sure that (eventually), we will all cast aside religious thoughts.  I haven't heard from many flat-earthers or earth-centrics lately.  Some day, the superstitious theists will disappear as well..  Not in my lifetime, but there seems to be an inevitable path toward factualism.

For the humor impaired, I wasn't drinking. It was meant to be sarcastic about expectations from the RCC. Must be drunk to expect anything.

Well, in fairness you did say you had been drinking, without cluing us in that it was a joke.

We're cool.