The continuing dishonesty and hypocrisy of Young Earth Creationists

[Silly Deity]

A bit of a long one this, and a bit of a rant.

I made a few critical comments on a YouTube video a few weeks back that was posted by Ray Comfort's European stooges. It consisted of two guys on a park bench, one of whom was supposedly just an ordinary dude out shopping or whatever, and Ray Comfort's local pet accomplice  - an apologist by the name of John Harris. In it Harris explains to Mr Ordinary that "evolution is mathematically impossible"

Mr Ordinary of course swallows the con 100% - what a surprise!

The subject matter is "Haldane's Dilemma" a tentative limit on the speed of beneficial evolution, calculated by the biologist and mathematician J. B. S. Haldane back in 1957. 

No matter that the "dilemma" was no-such-thing. No matter that the key issues raised in Haldane's 1957 paper were resolved back in 1968. No matter that it's not an issue for biologists. No matter that we know evolution is not "mathematically impossible"    

Up pops a reply from a creationist, "Having been a Research Manager for one of the world’s leading life science companies, I can assure you that Haldane’s dilemma has not been solved.  It has actually intensified as we now know that the DNA of apes and humans is at least 15% different and harmful DNA mutations are at least 1000x more common than supposed beneficial ones."

Oh this should be fun! Well if he's been a "Research Manager" at a life science company, you would think he knows his stuff. So he is asked to provide citations to the relevant scientific literature that supports his claims.  

Does he? Of course not!

Instead he refers to a series of five, approx hour-long videos on his own YouTube channel. None of them provide citations to any science whatsoever. Instead its a series of creationist PowerPoint presentations made in what looks like a church.

Naturally he's called out for his dishonesty but does he hold his hands up? Of course not. A couple of weeks have gone by and nothing.

So I do a little digging and find him on LinkedIn.....and it turns out that he was indeed a "Research Manager" at Monsanto and that he holds a degree in chemistry. Interestingly in one of his more recent posts he discloses that he and his wife have recently retired to Florida and one of the things that he likes about the area they've migrated to is its "traditional values".....aka socially conservative, white Christian nationalist.

So I decide to give him a poke and make a comment on one of his videos asking him why (as a Christian) he's prepared to repeat falsehoods. Also that he should apologise to his audience and take down his videos.   

I half expected him to censor my comment and shadow-ban me, but no! Instead I get OUTRAGE. He challenges me to provide evidence using "solid science" that his claims are false while also claiming his presentations contain numerous supporting references. (They do although invariably to sources such as Answers In Genesis, Creation Ministries International and the like so definitely not "solid science").

So I've challenged him on his claims about "Haldane's Dilemma". He covers it in the first 5 minutes of one of his videos, and its just awful. He's just making stuff up or repeating crap that others have made up. And its very easy to refute what he's saying with "solid science" because he claims to be quoting Haldane but Haldane didn't say any of it. Instead he's quoting a nutter named Walter ReMine who misrepresented Haldane in a 1993 book that's become embedded in creationist circles.

It comes down to the “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels.

Needless to say he's not responded to me pointing out his blatant falsehoods. He's also not provided citations to the scientific literature that supported his original claims about Haldane's Dilemma having intensified and that the DNA of apes and humans is at least 15% different. (I half expected him to claim "genetic entropy" - another pseudoscientific claim - and cite the DNA nonsense published by Jeffrey Tompkins but nothing yet).   

But it illustrates yet again the depths of hypocrisy and dishonesty inherent in Young Earth Creationism. I'll be interesting to read his response if it does come, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Dānu]

You watched five hours of creationist videos?

[Silly Deity]

You watched five hours of creationist videos?

Definitely not!!! 

[pattylt]

It won’t matter…kudos to your patience in responding to this nutter…but, again, it won’t matter.

Lying for Jesus is embedded in their brains. It’s not lying if it leads you to Jesus. They really can’t distinguish truth from lies because…Jesus!

[Edible crust]

They won't listen until a crocodile rears up and bites them on the arse.

[Rhythmcs]

ID isn't really an issue of lying for jesus, or even believing something untrue. It's an explicitly political movement. You don't have to tell people who believe in meat gods that or how science lines up with their nonsense. They already implicitly and instinctively believe as much. They want back in the schools, on the government dime. It's that simple. Without outside funding and mandatory access to children christianism can't function.

[Inkubus]

ID isn't really an issue of lying for jesus, or even believing something untrue.  It's an explicitly political movement.  You don't have to tell people who believe in meat gods that or how science lines up with their nonsense.  They already implicitly and instinctively believe as much.  They want back in the schools, on the government dime.  It's that simple.  Without outside funding and mandatory access to children christianism can't function.

On December 20, 2005, Jones issued his 139-page findings of fact and decision ruling that the Dover mandate requiring the statement to be read in class was unconstitutional. The ruling concluded that intelligent design is not science, and permanently barred the board from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring ID to be taught as an alternative theory Link

No mention of politics.

[pattylt]

ID isn't really an issue of lying for jesus, or even believing something untrue.  It's an explicitly political movement.  You don't have to tell people who believe in meat gods that or how science lines up with their nonsense.  They already implicitly and instinctively believe as much.  They want back in the schools, on the government dime.  It's that simple.  Without outside funding and mandatory access to children christianism can't function.

If Genesis had said that he created beings that could gradually change over time and into various “kinds”, they’d be demanding more science in the classroom and penalties for those that insisted on instant creation.  They are incapable of reading the Bible any other way than literally…thus we get snake handlers in Appalachia and creation “science” demands. It’s not like all Christian’s agree with it like the Trinity or resurrection! Nope, just a bunch of low IQ sects that try to be relevant in todays world.

[mordant]

They have in recent years realized they don't just need a young earth, but a young universe. Think about it. How can you have one without the other. They also are trying to get out in front of any life that might be discovered elsewhere in the solar system, with some insane theory about the Flood spewing organic material out into space thousands of years ago. They would probably debunk heliocentrism if they thought they could get away with it.

[pattylt]

One of many reasons that I hope we find life outside of earth…the fundamentalists would go nuts!

[DsRed19]

Having a background in chemistry myself, I can tell you that in no way makes one an expert in evolution. I teach a bit of the topic in my biochemistry class but it is a very complex subject that is really best handled by honest to goodness evolutionary biologists. Those are the true experts on the matter, not some guy who happened to work at a chemical company. And of course he doesn’t have any good sources. Their only sources they trust are biblically based, because obviously scientists are possessed by the devil and lying. ?
Having once been in the evangelical community myself, I will say the pressure is very strong to believe very stupid things lest you suffer eternal damnation. They will emotionally manipulate you and be very selective about the information they present as their “ proof”. They are also very good at making it seem like Christian’s are the persecuted victims , aren’t you special because you know the “ truth”, etc etc. Glad I eventually saw through the bullshit but they know damn well what they are doing to control people.

[Rhythmcs]

ID isn't really an issue of lying for jesus, or even believing something untrue.  It's an explicitly political movement.  You don't have to tell people who believe in meat gods that or how science lines up with their nonsense.  They already implicitly and instinctively believe as much.  They want back in the schools, on the government dime.  It's that simple.  Without outside funding and mandatory access to children christianism can't function.

On December 20, 2005, Jones issued his 139-page findings of fact and decision ruling that the Dover mandate requiring the statement to be read in class was unconstitutional. The ruling concluded that intelligent design is not science, and permanently barred the board from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring ID to be taught as an alternative theory Link

No mention of politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

[pattylt]

Having a background in chemistry myself, I can tell you that in no way makes one an expert in evolution. I teach a bit of the topic in my biochemistry class but it is a very complex subject that is really best handled by honest to goodness evolutionary biologists. Those are the true experts on the matter, not some guy who happened to work at a chemical company. And of course he doesn’t have any good sources. Their only sources they trust are biblically based, because obviously scientists are possessed by the devil and lying. ?
Having once been in the evangelical community myself, I will say the pressure is very strong to believe very stupid things lest you suffer eternal damnation. They will emotionally manipulate you and be very selective about the information they present as their “ proof”. They are also very good at making it seem like Christian’s are the persecuted victims , aren’t you special because you know the “ truth”, etc etc.  Glad I eventually saw through the bullshit but they know damn well what they are doing to control people.

Most every religious sect has at least one absurd belief.  It’s how they distinguish the “in” group from the “out” group.  If you accept that absurd belief, you gain entrance to that “in” group.

[Rhythmcs]

For the ID guys, that one belief was a commitment to building a white christian theocracy over the course of 20years.

[Dānu]

Having a background in chemistry myself, I can tell you that in no way makes one an expert in evolution. I teach a bit of the topic in my biochemistry class but it is a very complex subject that is really best handled by honest to goodness evolutionary biologists. Those are the true experts on the matter, not some guy who happened to work at a chemical company. And of course he doesn’t have any good sources. Their only sources they trust are biblically based, because obviously scientists are possessed by the devil and lying. ?
Having once been in the evangelical community myself, I will say the pressure is very strong to believe very stupid things lest you suffer eternal damnation. They will emotionally manipulate you and be very selective about the information they present as their “ proof”. They are also very good at making it seem like Christian’s are the persecuted victims , aren’t you special because you know the “ truth”, etc etc.  Glad I eventually saw through the bullshit but they know damn well what they are doing to control people.

Most every religious sect has at least one absurd belief.  It’s how they distinguish the “in” group from the “out” group.  If you accept that absurd belief, you gain entrance to that “in” group.

This video talks about "credibility enhancing displays" wherein the credibility of one's belief is enhanced by actions consistent with belief or that require significant cost to the believer, all the way up to the ultimate cost.

[Inkubus]

No mention of politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

The combination of arrogance and stupidity these people freely display is beyond words to describe.

References to creationism in drafts of a student biology book were replaced with the term “intelligent design” by the time it was published, a witness testified Wednesday in a landmark trial over a school board’s decision to include the concept in its curriculum. Link

What a cleaver move they must have thought, no one will ever notice.

Only they did:

One of the most damning moments in the trial involved the use of a text-matching program to compare Of Pandas and People to the earlier editions. Sure enough, most of the book was identical to the earlier versions. The cosmetic difference was that all instances of "creator", "creationism", and "creation science" were replaced with "intelligent agent" and "intelligent design", leaving substantive content essentially unchanged. Link

What I find more than a bit frightening is that there are many millions of people who actually believe this shit.

[Inkubus]

I just love this Haldane quote:

"If one could conclude as to the nature of the Creator from a study of creation it would appear that God has an inordinate fondness for beetles."

[jerry mcmasters]

A bit of a long one this, and a bit of a rant.

Hat's off to you, fuck that guy. 

Up pops a reply from a creationist, "Having been a Research Manager for one of the world’s leading life science companies, I can assure you that Haldane’s dilemma has not been solved.  It has actually intensified as we now know that the DNA of apes and humans is at least 15% different and harmful DNA mutations are at least 1000x more common than supposed beneficial ones."

Never heard of Haldane but this seems really unimportant unless one knows the rate at which mutations, both beneficial and harmful, occur.  Who cares if there are thousands of bad  mutations, or even disadvantageous genetic outcomes (a giraffe with a slightly shorter neck than his mates, etc.)?  That's...kind of the point, as Darwin noticed most critters are conceiving and producing way more offspring than can move on to produce future generations.  As long as there are beneficial mutations, and advantageous genetic outcomes (the giraffe with the slightly longer neck), then with the eons of time to work with you're going to get evolution.