10 MN to 720 MN: Christian Demographics in Africa.

[Xavier]

Wiki says: "As of 2023, there are an estimated 718 million Christians from all denominations in Africa,[13] up from about 10 million in 1900. [14]" From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa

How did this extraordinary demographics change, within living memory, take place so dramatically and drastically in Africa? The Christian explanation is that Miracles in the Name of Jesus undoubtedly must have taken place, for such an extraordinary effect must have had a proportionately extraordinary cause. The BBC credits Reinhard Bonnke as being one of the men who changed the face of Christianity in Africa, from a small minority religion of around 10% to around 50-60% today. Bonnke reported miracles during his ministry, and about 1 MN Souls, mostly Muslims, gave their lives to Christ at a single Gospel Crusade in Africa.

Here is the article: Reinhard Bonnke: The man who changed the face of Christianity in Africa https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50781193 His organization CFAN records about 79 MN conversions in Bonnke's life. It is reasonably projected that Christianity will cross 750 MN Souls, perhaps by 2025, and 1 BN Souls in Africa soon thereafter.

What is the Atheist explanation? How many Atheists are there in Africa? Are there 720 MN Atheists in the entire world? How could this dramatic change from 10 MN to 720 MN Christians, which is a 70X times in just about a century, take place without Miracles?

[Thumpalumpacus]

How could this dramatic change from 10 MN to 720 MN Christians, which is a 70X times in just about a century, take place without Miracles?

"I'll take 'What is colonialism?' for $1000, Alex."

[Astreja]

Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad populum. Even if virtually everyone on Earth was a Christian, it is my belief that every one of them is wrong. All of them.

I believe with 100% conviction that when these Christians eventually die, they will go to their graves and remain there, and not one of them will see heaven.

That includes you, Xavier. I can vividly imagine you lying insentient in your grave, 25 or 50 or 75 years from now, not even knowing that your faith died with your body.

[Xavier]

How could this dramatic change from 10 MN to 720 MN Christians, which is a 70X times in just about a century, take place without Miracles?

"I'll take 'What is colonialism?' for $1000, Alex."

Bonnke founded Christ for all Nations in 1975, well after the colonial period ended. "Late Twentieth Century 1975
April—Gaberone, Botswana – Reinhard Bonnke ... German missionary to Africa, Reinhard Bonnke, founded Christ For All Nations (CFAN), which now ministers to millions ... Some Christ For All Nations crusades in Africa have reached huge open-air crowds of 600,000 to 800,000 people. Always hundreds or thousands are saved, healed, and delivered as the power of God moves on the people." https://revival-library.org/histories/19...rd-bonnke/ "Christ for all Nations was founded by Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke in 1975 ... Our main focus is Africa, however we have offices in the US, Canada, Germany, United Kingdom, South Africa, Nigeria, Singapore, Australia & Hong Kong. From 2000 to 2009 CfaN recorded over 55 MILLION decisions for Christ." https://www.linkedin.com/company/christ-...l-nations/

Logical fallacy: Argumentum ad populum. Even if virtually everyone on Earth was a Christian, it is my belief that every one of them is wrong. All of them.

Ok. I'm not saying that Christianity is true just because billions believe in it. I'm saying, this dramatic demographic change, so different from say the time period between 1800 to 1900 (when many Christians held "cessationist" opinions - the false belief that miracles ceased after the Apostolic age), most likely could not have been effected without miracles. Also, we are not taking just about people taking a poll etc, but radically committing their life to Christ after they believe they experienced a miracle. When you have 100s of Millions of people doing that, there's likely something underlying it. Where there's smoke, there's fire, as the saying goes.

That includes you, Xavier. I can vividly imagine you lying insentient in your grave, 25 or 50 or 75 years from now, not even knowing that your faith died with your body.

I'm confident Jesus Christ rose from the dead, Astreja, and that there's solid historical evidence for it. I don't know whether I'll be alive or dead in 25 years, God knows. I do know that when I die, I will go to meet the Lord in Heaven. And He will raise my body on the Last Day, as He raised His own. Meanwhile, here is where Global Atheism in be, in about 25 years, by 2050: "While Christianity and other religions are growing around the world, the global atheist population is falling. The current growth trend for atheism is -0.12%, with their number falling from 147 million in 2020 to 146 million in 2024. Atheism peaked around 1970 with 165 million people ... Overall, non-religionists, atheists, and agnostics combined will fall to less than 849 million by 2050." https://research.lifeway.com/2024/01/22/...-for-2024/

[SaxonX]

Bonnke founded Christ for all Nations in 1975, well after the colonial period ended. "Late Twentieth Century 1975

April—Gaberone, Botswana – Reinhard Bonnke ... German missionary to Africa, Reinhard Bonnke, founded Christ For All Nations (CFAN), which now ministers to millions ... Some Christ For All Nations crusades in Africa have reached huge open-air crowds of 600,000 to 800,000 people. Always hundreds or thousands are saved, healed, and delivered as the power of God moves on the people." https://revival-library.org/histories/19...rd-bonnke/ "Christ for all Nations was founded by Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke in 1975 ... Our main focus is Africa, however we have offices in the US, Canada, Germany, United Kingdom, South Africa, Nigeria, Singapore, Australia & Hong Kong. From 2000 to 2009 CfaN recorded over 55 MILLION decisions for Christ." https://www.linkedin.com/company/christ-...l-nations/

That doesn't mean Africans were not influenced by colonialism and as for the rest of your preaching is bull

Ok. I'm not saying that Christianity is true just because billions believe in it. I'm saying, this dramatic demographic change, so different from say the time period between 1800 to 1900 (when many Christians held "cessationist" opinions - the false belief that miracles ceased after the Apostolic age), most likely could not have been effected without miracles. Also, we are not taking just about people taking a poll etc, but radically committing their life to Christ after they believe they experienced a miracle. When you have 100s of Millions of people doing that, there's likely something underlying it. Where there's smoke, there's fire, as the saying goes.

Nope there is zero evidence here for supernatural intervention this is simply you pulling that out of nothing 

m confident Jesus Christ rose from the dead, Astreja, and that there's solid historical evidence for it. I don't know whether I'll be alive or dead in 25 years, God knows. I do know that when I die, I will go to meet the Lord in Heaven. And He will raise my body on the Last Day, as He raised His own. Meanwhile, here is where Global Atheism in be, in about 25 years, by 2050: "While Christianity and other religions are growing around the world, the global atheist population is falling. The current growth trend for atheism is -0.12%, with their number falling from 147 million in 2020 to 146 million in 2024. Atheism peaked around 1970 with 165 million people ... Overall, non-religionists, atheists, and agnostics combined will fall to less than 849 million by 2050." https://research.lifeway.com/2024/01/22/...-for-2024/

The historic evidence for the resurrection is piss poor. Also it doesn't matter how many atheist there are being right has nothing to do with the number of people who agree with you. Also your link is broken and Lifeway Research is Christian propaganda.

[SaxonX]

By the way hasn't this guy breached the rules about proselytization about dozen times now and isn't spamming threads also not allowed

[Deesse23]

I dont understand anything about everything, particularly cosmology, evolution and history. Therefor god!

[SaxonX]

I dont understand anything about everything, particularly cosmology, evolution and history. Therefor god!

Yup ignorance and god seem to go hand in hand

[Dexta]

How did this extraordinary demographics change, within living memory, take place so dramatically and drastically in Africa?

Probably due to the dearth of thorough and free education provision in most of Africa.

[Dānu]

Argument from incredulity. Are you seriously arguing that a bunch of conversions can't happen without supernatural intervention? That's fucking stupid.

[brewerb]

Wiki says: "As of 2023, there are an estimated 718 million Christians from all denominations in Africa,[13] up from about 10 million in 1900. [14]" From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa

How did this extraordinary demographics change, within living memory, take place so dramatically and drastically in Africa? The Christian explanation is that Miracles in the Name of Jesus undoubtedly must have taken place, for such an extraordinary effect must have had a proportionately extraordinary cause. The BBC credits Reinhard Bonnke as being one of the men who changed the face of Christianity in Africa, from a small minority religion of around 10% to around 50-60% today. Bonnke reported miracles during his ministry, and about 1 MN Souls, mostly Muslims, gave their lives to Christ at a single Gospel Crusade in Africa.

Here is the article: Reinhard Bonnke: The man who changed the face of Christianity in Africa https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50781193 His organization CFAN records about 79 MN conversions in Bonnke's life. It is reasonably projected that Christianity will cross 750 MN Souls, perhaps by 2025, and 1 BN Souls in Africa soon thereafter.

What is the Atheist explanation? How many Atheists are there in Africa? Are there 720 MN Atheists in the entire world? How could this dramatic change from 10 MN to 720 MN Christians, which is a 70X times in just about a century, take place without Miracles?

Taking advantage of a largely uneducated population. That's been the missionary modus operandi for centuries and nothing to brag about. Actually it's more of a condemnation and will eventually come back to haunt christianity.

An African point of view: https://www.africaw.com/religion-in-afri...ul-effects

Edit: Before you respond consider the effects of conversion of indigenous peoples in the Americas.

[Deesse23]

Argument from incredulity.  Are you seriously arguing that a bunch of conversions can't happen without supernatural intervention?  That's fucking stupid.

Its not just a bunch, its a LOT, a HUGE amount, an incre...oh, wait.

[Deesse23]

Wiki says: "As of 2023, there are an estimated 718 million Christians from all denominations in Africa,

There are about 1.6 BILLION non-christians in India. 1.5 BILLION non-christians in China. There is only an insignificant number of christians in the northern half of Africa. There is only a small amount of christians in the near and middle east. There is only a small amount of christians where christianity originated. You have any clue why? Most probably not....Well "persecution" thats going to be your only idea.

Low numbers because of persecution, of course. And high numbers, because of persecution, of course, because without persecution they would be even higher. Arguing with someone like you is like playing chess with a pidgeon....

[LastPoet]

I dont understand anything about everything, particularly cosmology, evolution and history. Therefor god!

Yup ignorance and god seem to go hand in hand

There is the thing, in my opinion, admitting ignorance is the fuel of science, to admit you don't know is what makes one to go look for knowledge.

On the other hand, religious people rarely admit said ignorance, so full of bluster and "certainty" that they stall and will go to great lenghts of dishonesty to achieve some sort of "status" amongst their peers.

As for Africa, it is not very far feched to realize that it is easier to convert a population majorly uneducated and supersticious. It happened before in other continents.

[jerry mcmasters]

As for Africa, it is not very far feched to realize that it is easier to convert a population majorly uneducated and supersticious. It happened before in other continents.

It's definitely by design, and a sign of weakness rather than strength.  True test of religion would be for American missionaries to stay in US and convert American atheists, if Christianity is true and valid and great it should be no trouble.

[Deesse23]

As for Africa, it is not very far feched to realize that it is easier to convert a population majorly uneducated and supersticious. It happened before in other continents.

It's definitely by design, and a sign of weakness rather than strength.  True test of religion would be for American missionaries to stay in US and convert American atheists, if Christianity is true and valid and great it should be no trouble.

And yet, Christianity arrived in China in the 7th century and never got any traction whatsoever, although missionaries were pushing hard. Everybody-minus-one knows why.

[Thumpalumpacus]

"I'll take 'What is colonialism?' for $1000, Alex."

Bonnke founded Christ for all Nations in 1975, well after the colonial period ended. "Late Twentieth Century 1975
April—Gaberone, Botswana – Reinhard Bonnke ... German missionary to Africa, Reinhard Bonnke, founded Christ For All Nations (CFAN), which now ministers to millions ... Some Christ For All Nations crusades in Africa have reached huge open-air crowds of 600,000 to 800,000 people. Always hundreds or thousands are saved, healed, and delivered as the power of God moves on the people." https://revival-library.org/histories/19...rd-bonnke/ "Christ for all Nations was founded by Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke in 1975 ... Our main focus is Africa, however we have offices in the US, Canada, Germany, United Kingdom, South Africa, Nigeria, Singapore, Australia & Hong Kong. From 2000 to 2009 CfaN recorded over 55 MILLION decisions for Christ." https://www.linkedin.com/company/christ-...l-nations/

That doesn't answer my point. You'd have to show not that there were other and later factors, but that colonialism wasn't a factor while this special little group is.

By the way, why would an all-powerful god need human help in spreading his faith?

[brewerb]

Bonnke founded Christ for all Nations in 1975, well after the colonial period ended. "Late Twentieth Century 1975
April—Gaberone, Botswana – Reinhard Bonnke ... German missionary to Africa, Reinhard Bonnke, founded Christ For All Nations (CFAN), which now ministers to millions ... Some Christ For All Nations crusades in Africa have reached huge open-air crowds of 600,000 to 800,000 people. Always hundreds or thousands are saved, healed, and delivered as the power of God moves on the people." https://revival-library.org/histories/19...rd-bonnke/ "Christ for all Nations was founded by Evangelist Reinhard Bonnke in 1975 ... Our main focus is Africa, however we have offices in the US, Canada, Germany, United Kingdom, South Africa, Nigeria, Singapore, Australia & Hong Kong. From 2000 to 2009 CfaN recorded over 55 MILLION decisions for Christ." https://www.linkedin.com/company/christ-...l-nations/

That doesn't answer my point. You'd have to show not that there were other and later factors, but that colonialism wasn't a factor while this special little group is.

By the way, why would an all-powerful god need human help in spreading his faith?

It wouldn't. That's the cult aspect kicking in. But let's ask.

@Xavier Why is conversion thru missionary work necessary?

[Reltzik]

Wiki says: "As of 2023, there are an estimated 718 million Christians from all denominations in Africa,[13] up from about 10 million in 1900. [14]" From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa

How did this extraordinary demographics change, within living memory, take place so dramatically and drastically in Africa? The Christian explanation is that Miracles in the Name of Jesus undoubtedly must have taken place, for such an extraordinary effect must have had a proportionately extraordinary cause. The BBC credits Reinhard Bonnke as being one of the men who changed the face of Christianity in Africa, from a small minority religion of around 10% to around 50-60% today. Bonnke reported miracles during his ministry, and about 1 MN Souls, mostly Muslims, gave their lives to Christ at a single Gospel Crusade in Africa.

Here is the article: Reinhard Bonnke: The man who changed the face of Christianity in Africa https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50781193 His organization CFAN records about 79 MN conversions in Bonnke's life. It is reasonably projected that Christianity will cross 750 MN Souls, perhaps by 2025, and 1 BN Souls in Africa soon thereafter.

What is the Atheist explanation? How many Atheists are there in Africa? Are there 720 MN Atheists in the entire world? How could this dramatic change from 10 MN to 720 MN Christians, which is a 70X times in just about a century, take place without Miracles?

Why would we assume this was miraculous?  Isn't conversion supposed to be a free will thing instead?  Or is this one of those things where God changes whatever a person thinks and believes and yet it's somehow still free will?  I can never get a single straight answer on that.  Just a bunch of conflicting dogmas and ad-hoc rationalizations that get hand-waved away.

Africa's population grew by something like a factor of 10 over the past century, so per-capita the growth rate would be closer to a factor of 7 than 70.  To explain that, at a guess, I'd say it took place because a bunch of Christians threw a lot of money into missionary efforts.  Probably a bunch of coercion and atrocity as well.  That's the usual blueprint for spreading Christianity to lands that the Christian world colonized.  You know, maybe something that looks like this.  Or this.  Or... eh, it's a nice day, I'd rather not ruin it by delving too deeply into how Christianity likes to force itself on the rest of the world.

Since you ask, estimates vary depending on poll and how broadly or narrowly you define the term atheist, but the lower end of that range would be about 740 million.  That's probably an undercount, given the many places where religious people make it extremely dangerous to just come out and say you're an atheist.  I'm not sure what rhetorical point you're trying to make there.

[Xavier]

Brewer: Why, to lead Souls to Heaven and Eternal Happiness, of course! It's those Christians who believe in Heaven, yet don't really want their Atheist/Unbelieving Friends to go there, who don't do/support Missions etc who have the explaining to do. If you love Souls, you want them to find or gain Happiness, especially Eternal Happiness. Next, because Jesus Christ told Christians to do this. But, of course, as St. Francis of Assisi says, and as St. Mother Theresa showed, sometimes just the good example of a Christian life well lived leads Souls to Christ. It certainly did in the case of Sr. Nirmala Joshi, who was born in a Hindu Brahmin Family, but later joined the Missionaries of Charity, because she was inspired by the Gospel Message, and Mother Theresa's example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmala_Joshi

Thump: God of course does not need us, but He chooses to use human beings to do His work because it contributes immensely to their own sanctification when they do. In the Gospel, He Himself first proclaimed the Truth, that He was the Son of God, and had come to pay the ransom for the sins of the world, to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. After His death, St. Paul and the other Apostles, led by His Spirit, began to do the same, debating with the Jews in the Synagogues from their Scriptures/the OT, and with Pagans from Philosophy and Natural Law, as we see in Acts of the Apostles, ch. 17 etc. It's a historical fact that Christianity spread and spread rapidly right from the beginning, despite the fact that it was started by One Poor Carpenter, and His 12 mostly fishermen disciples. St. Thomas proclaimed Christ in India, St. Matthew the Apostle, the writer of the First Gospel, proclaimed His Message in Ethiopia in Africa, where Christianity now spreads rapidly.

Deese: "Low numbers because of persecution, of course."

Persecution, yes. It can also be apathy and indifference on the part of Christians to Gospel obligations and their call to holiness. The sins of Christians can also prevent the Gospel Message from going out, while their good works can lead to many more considering Christ.

Re: Education: It's actually the exact opposite of what Atheists guess/think. Christian missionaries, as even their Islamist opponents admit, take great pains to advance even Secular Education, because they know education even in human things leads ultimately to education in divine things. Here's an Islamist lament about this, along with mentioning 6 MN Muslims convert to Christianity every year in Africa, as reported by Al Jazeera: "As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed ... Number of schools and institutions administered by churches: 104,000 * Number of muslim students in these schools: 6 million * Number colleges administered by churches: 500 * Number seminaries administered by churches graduating missionaries: 490 * Number of Christian kindergarten schools: 10,677" https://virtueonline.org/six-million-afr...-each-year And so Christianity does everything to promote education including religious education. Secular education is good and can take you places in life, like to other countries etc. But only religious education takes you to Heaven. So Christianity has always promoted and even now promotes both in Africa.

[SYZ]

...How did this extraordinary demographics change, within living memory, take place so dramatically and drastically in Africa? The Christian explanation is that Miracles in the Name of Jesus undoubtedly must have taken place, for such an extraordinary effect must have had a proportionately extraordinary cause.

Can you please list a few of those confirmed, empirically supported
"miracles"?  Location and date of event, type of "extraordinary" event,
plus links to the specific details of each purported miracle etc.

Your link to Reinhard Bonnke allegedly giving the blind sight(!) and fixing
the legs of cripples(!) is simply apocryphal, and there is NO accredited
evidence supporting these nonsensical claims—unless of course you
can provide some?    Please feel free to do so.

BTW, less than 50% of the African population
is Christian—compared with 63% in America.

[AutisticWill]

Where there is no education, there you will find witches.

[SaxonX]

Re: Education: It's actually the exact opposite of what Atheists guess/think. Christian missionaries, as even their Islamist opponents admit, take great pains to advance even Secular Education, because they know education even in human things leads ultimately to education in divine things. Here's an Islamist lament about this, along with mentioning 6 MN Muslims convert to Christianity every year in Africa, as reported by Al Jazeera: "As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed ... Number of schools and institutions administered by churches: 104,000 * Number of muslim students in these schools: 6 million * Number colleges administered by churches: 500 * Number seminaries administered by churches graduating missionaries: 490 * Number of Christian kindergarten schools: 10,677" https://virtueonline.org/six-million-afr...-each-year And so Christianity does everything to promote education including religious education. Secular education is good and can take you places in life, like to other countries etc. But only religious education takes you to Heaven. So Christianity has always promoted and even now promotes both in Africa.

Not education but indoctrination

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thump: God of course does not need us, but He chooses to use human beings to do His work because it contributes immensely to their own sanctification when they do. In the Gospel, He Himself first proclaimed the Truth, that He was the Son of God, and had come to pay the ransom for the sins of the world, to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. After His death, St. Paul and the other Apostles, led by His Spirit, began to do the same, debating with the Jews in the Synagogues from their Scriptures/the OT, and with Pagans from Philosophy and Natural Law, as we see in Acts of the Apostles, ch. 17 etc. It's a historical fact that Christianity spread and spread rapidly right from the beginning, despite the fact that it was started by One Poor Carpenter, and His 12 mostly fishermen disciples. St. Thomas proclaimed Christ in India, St. Matthew the Apostle, the writer of the First Gospel, proclaimed His Message in Ethiopia in Africa, where Christianity now spreads rapidly.

Even I, a mere mortal, can conceive of much better ways to "sanctify" (which is a poor word-choice, but whatever) oneself -- say feeding the hungry (without strings attached!), healing the sick without charge, and so on. But no, your idea of sanctification is being an annoying shouter?

How about you leave others out of your superstition and get your ass busy doing real acts of goodness?

[Minimalist]

Islam is exploding in sub-saharan Africa too.  I imagine lots of religious wars in Africa in the future.

Why don't you go there and enlist?  Fucking jesus would love your ass for it.