How can I respond to "God works in mysterious ways"

[Jarsa]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

[Paleophyte]

"If it's incomprehensible then why are we discussing it?"

The church has spent a lot of words explaining the inexplicable and effing the ineffable.

[brewerb]

'god works in mysterious ways' is a dodge, a cop out.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

"Great, so you don't understand this god you're blathering about."

[Minimalist]

[Cavebear]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

Agree with your friend. If there was a deity, it wouldn't actually be understandable to us. If there was something omniscient, all-present, and all-powerful, an ant would understand us better that we can understand that deity. Too far beyond comprehension. But maybe ask your friend for "proof of existence" and see what kind of response you get. Imagining something like a deity is not the same as one actually existing.

[Minimalist]

[Inkubus]

"God is beyond human understanding".

Well those guys raving from pulpits on Sunday mornings obviously didn't get the memo. They never miss an opportunity to lecture us about God and his ever lengthening list of demands as to the best way to appease him. How they know all this? Or mebbi it's a load of bollocks made up by the early church.

[SYZ]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

Assuming that you're an atheist, you're seriously
wasting your time asking a religious question of
anybody who (apparently) is a theist.

At any rate, what was your question?  Maybe we
can help you.

[CapriMark1]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

Why reply at all?  This person is not trying to have a discussion.

[Dexta]

"So you're saying God doesn't make sense. I'm glad we're in agreement."

[Jarsa]

I just asked my friend about something that doesn't make sense in Christianity, and he says no human can understand the mind of God.  I don't know how to make another point. What's a good response?

Assuming that you're an atheist, you're seriously
wasting your time asking a religious question of
anybody who (apparently) is a theist.

At any rate, what was your question?  Maybe we
can help you.

We were talking about the problem of evil, and as usual, he said god wanted us to have free will.
 I asked him if it was possible to sin in heaven, and he said no. 
Doesn't that negate free will? 
No. 
He said we still have the option to sin in heaven, but no one wants to because they get something called a holy heart. 
I asked why god didn't give everyone holy hearts from the beginning to prevent all this suffering, and he said if god did that, there would be n difference between heaven and earth. 
I asked why god would make a place for people without holy hearts, then get mad at people when they sinned, and that's when he said God works in mysterious ways.

[brewerb]

That's about on par with my father telling me 'because I said so'.

[Rhythmcs]

Maybe gods really don't operate on lowly comprehensible shit like moral principles.  I'd lean into that, if one of the afflicted suggested it, to me.

[Rahn127]

Someone says "No human can understand the mind of god".

First off- How did you determine that this god fellow has a mind ?
I have a mind and I can understand how human minds work.

If this god has a mind, how did you determine that it is different than a human mind ?
Why would it be different ?

Aren't you in fact just imagining that this god has a mind ?
Aren't you giving it human characteristics because our characteristics are the only characteristics that we have to analyze ?

This god you speak of only exits through definition and imagination, not through observation.
We define this god as having a mind. We imagine that it must have a mind in order to be aware and conscious.

But those characteristics are what we imagine it to have.
If it did this thing we call X, then we imagine that it must have the power and knowledge to do this thing X.
We're giving it human characteristics of power and knowledge that are pushed up to a godly level.
We never observed these powers. We only assume that they exist.

Gods are not mysterious when you realize that they don't exist.
There is nothing mysterious about nothing doing nothing.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Assuming that you're an atheist, you're seriously
wasting your time asking a religious question of
anybody who (apparently) is a theist.

At any rate, what was your question?  Maybe we
can help you.

We were talking about the problem of evil, and as usual, he said god wanted us to have free will.
 I asked him if it was possible to sin in heaven, and he said no. 
Doesn't that negate free will? 
No. 
He said we still have the option to sin in heaven, but no one wants to because they get something called a holy heart. 
I asked why god didn't give everyone holy hearts from the beginning to prevent all this suffering, and he said if god did that, there would be n difference between heaven and earth. 
I asked why god would make a place for people without holy hearts, then get mad at people when they sinned, and that's when he said God works in mysterious ways.

If his god wanted us to have free will at all, why would that same god hold our "soul" hostage? Believing in order to avoid eternal torture is not "free will".

It's no different than a robber pointing a gun in your face and demanding your wallet or your life. Sure, you give him your wallet and hopefully avoid being shot. But did you give him your wallet in the spirit of free will? No, not at all.

Your friend is simplistic.

[Dānu]

Ask them if that's shorthand for, "It doesn't make sense but it must be true?" When they answer no, ask them which part is wrong, the doesn't make sense, or the must be true part?

[LastPoet]

Ask them if that's shorthand for, "It doesn't make sense but it must be true?"  When they answer no, ask them which part is wrong, the doesn't make sense, or the must be true part?

Off topic, I am happy to see you around. You know we ruffled feathers on more than one occasion, but that is just it, immaturity on my part. Glad to see you here Apophenia.

[Rhythmcs]

Ask them if that's shorthand for, "It doesn't make sense but it must be true?"  When they answer no, ask them which part is wrong, the doesn't make sense, or the must be true part?

Yup.  IMHO, there's no need for a response at that point because there is no argument or debate occurring at that point.  One way or the other, the afflicted person has acknowledged a terminus.

Them - "This stuff is incomprehensible to us!"
Me - "exactly......?"

[Cavebear]

Assuming that you're an atheist, you're seriously
wasting your time asking a religious question of
anybody who (apparently) is a theist.

At any rate, what was your question?  Maybe we
can help you.

We were talking about the problem of evil, and as usual, he said god wanted us to have free will.
 I asked him if it was possible to sin in heaven, and he said no. 
Doesn't that negate free will? 
No. 
He said we still have the option to sin in heaven, but no one wants to because they get something called a holy heart. 
I asked why god didn't give everyone holy hearts from the beginning to prevent all this suffering, and he said if god did that, there would be n difference between heaven and earth. 
I asked why god would make a place for people without holy hearts, then get mad at people when they sinned, and that's when he said God works in mysterious ways.

I don't think I have ever heard the argument that you can sin in heaven! Well Satan did, but he didn't stay there long LOL! Seriously, even as an atheist, I don't think that one could "sin" in the alleged heaven. That is one of the oddest ideas I have ever heard. Is that some idea actually being debated in theistic forums?

You asked your friend 2 very good questions. His answer that "God works in mysterious ways" is likely the worst example of the concept I have ever read. But WOW, sinning in heaven boggles the imagination!

[no one]

All in all, this assertion is a cop out. A backpedaling dodge. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

The outright romance with the "mysterious ways" yarn is the result of rationality chrashing through the veil of godiboi's majestic morality with the realization that their all loving savior is an imbecilic, cruel, quarter-witted, barbaric, short-sighted, sadisitc, laughably stupid, tyrannical monster. Their persuaded presumptions are at odds with this new awareness, however, it is impossible for them to grasp, and their tiny, inefficient minds withdraw to the safety of godiboi's enigma.

You cannot argue, or even reason with a mind that is cemented shut with this kind of defense mechanism.

[OakTree500]

Maybe try something like "lets just stop and think about that for a moment.......what does that mean?" and see if you can get them to really, really think about that statement.

We all know its a cop out - but I think those that say it honestly just dont think about it at all. To us, its like we know that means nothing other than "well god wins so haha", its a confirmation bias - like if nothing happes it wasnt god and if something does happen it WAS god.

To them it sort of negates having to think any further on the subject - so maybe just ask them to explain what they think that even means. Doesnt have to be like an angry challenge or a "gotcha" but a really sincere, "what do you honestly think that means?"

[ThePopesUnderpants]

Yes she does is a good answer.

[Minimalist]

[DsRed19]

I had that same argument for years, but after a while it doesn’t hold weight anymore. According to the bible, god wants to be known but yet Christianity always asserts his mysterious ways the minute they encounter contradictions