A problem about Abrahamic religious scriptures that is not discussed enough

[epronovost]

When we discuss about Abrahamic religious scriptures, especially the Bible, moral problems. We often focus on slavery, misogyny, homophobia and genocidal rethoric towards certain people. I would like to bring out a just as explicit moral problem that of corporal punishment, and fairly severe one's at that, of children. The Bible endorses on numerous occasion the idea that a good father should strike an unrully child with a rod on their back or threaten to do so. This, of course, was cruel and much less effective than other forms of parenting. Yet, because it's in the Bible and despite the fact we ought to know better thanks to the mountain of scientific proof against the use of corporal punishment against children and teens, it's still use as a justification. Worst, there is more than a few conservative politicians and educators, who advocate for the return of corporal punishment in schools and family life. I find this much more pernicious now than the appeals to the immorality of slavery and genocide.

[airportkid]

I certainly agree that corporal punishment is antique and ineffective, and its prevalence in scripture is a significant problem.

But to my mind the greatest problem with scripture is the notion that its ideas are timeless, that it embodies the best answer to all problems.  That is what makes it dangerous and damaging.

It's ancient.  Being ancient it's missing more than a thousand years of exponentially accumulating knowledge, in every sphere of human experience.

If the predominant application of scripture is in the field of social and personal psychology, to foster peace, and peace of mind, it has become worse than useless, it is dead wrong in all its prescriptions.  Just as the OP says, corporal punishment is a failed remedy - so failed it's the opposite of a remedy and makes things worse.

We shouldn't wage battle against the particular obsolescences (turned obscenities), we should work to overturn the notion itself that scripture is useful.

[Minimalist]

The fuckers think their holy horseshit is the answer to EVERYTHING.

[mordant]

The fuckers think their holy horseshit is the answer to EVERYTHING.

Once again, we must ask ourselves, "Is this real, or just parody? And why can't we ever tell the difference?"

[brewerb]

The board of education and I met infrequently. My mothers spoon of discipline is a different story. 



It was part of the culture she grew up with (german immigrants) more than a religious teaching.

[Dānu]

I received a switch to my behind a time or two as well.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I considered roasting my son in the oven for all eternity on a couple of occasions when he disrespected me, but hey, I'm a forgiving sort, so it never came to pass.

My son's mom, on the other hand, threatened him with la chancla at times. She wasn't as forgiving, either, so he probably feared that more.

[SYZ]

...We shouldn't wage battle against the particular obsolescences (turned obscenities), we should work to overturn the notion itself that scripture is useful.

Exactly.    2,000-year-old morals and/or ethics have
no place in a scientifically-enlightened 21st century
text of childhood behaviours and parental involvement.

[pattylt]

My parents spanked me often (I mostly deserved it) . My father even pointed out that the crack in my ass was due to being spanked and had I ever seen a kid without a butt crack?

I spanked my son a few times…he was a mini me version. By the time my daughter came along (3 1/2 years later), I had completely reversed my view on spanking and never did it again. I used time outs. My son hated time outs so much he told me to just spank him…proving that timeouts were a better way to go.

[The Paladin]

Physical punishment must have evolutionary roots. I can certainly see a tribal father out gathering berries with his brothers and his children when one of them does something that could endanger the entire tribe. A good beating in that case might have been the most effective way to prevent a total party kill and it just got passed down a few thousand generations.

[epronovost]

Physical punishment must have evolutionary roots.  I can certainly see a tribal father out gathering berries with his brothers and his children when one of them does something that could endanger the entire tribe.  A good beating in that case might have been the most effective way to prevent a total party kill and it just got passed down a few thousand generations.

That seems unlikely. Native Americans, specifically the Algonquians and the Hurons, were shocked when they discovered Europeans beat their kids as a form of discipline in the 16th and 17th century and yet they were living in the same way as their ancestors from the paleolithic. There is no link between technical and social development and violence (in fact it seems to be inversed to a certain point). Violence as a form of coercive control in groups and in group dynamics far precedes the existence of humans.

[The Paladin]

Physical punishment must have evolutionary roots.  I can certainly see a tribal father out gathering berries with his brothers and his children when one of them does something that could endanger the entire tribe.  A good beating in that case might have been the most effective way to prevent a total party kill and it just got passed down a few thousand generations.

That seems unlikely. Native Americans, specifically the Algonquians and the Hurons, were shocked when they discovered Europeans beat their kids as a form of discipline in the 16th and 17th century and yet they were living in the same way as their ancestors from the paleolithic. There is no link between technical and social development and violence (in fact it seems to be inversed to a certain point). Violence as a form of coercive control in groups and in group dynamics far precedes the existence of humans.

Well, that's enlightening.  I was totally unaware of that.  It is somewhat of a contradiction considering that some tribes held many different traditions that involved physical and sometimes even emotional abuse, but those were mostly reserved for adults.

[pattylt]

The American natives also had a village mentality on raising children while Europeans raised children under one roof. Having a support system of neighbors and family able to help take the stress off of the parents was huge. In Europe, mom pretty much had the job alone and dad was the total head of the household.

While I don’t like spanking and gave it up as just a power move over the kids, I can also sympathize with the frustration and overwhelming responsibilities raising an independent minded child can induce. I’m ver glad my kids didn’t spank theirs. My daughter’s husband did and my daughter left him when his violence turned onto her. They are all better off for it. Children really do learn behaviors they experienced themselves.

[Szuchow]

Bible is problematic in nearly everything aspect which shouldn't be a surprise given that it is product of unenlightened culture from times of yore. As for beatings - I wonder if supporters of these would support it still if other adults in positions of authority over them would be allowed to beat them too? It's fucking disgrace that this primitive practice still have people deeming it good.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Bible is problematic in nearly everything aspect which shouldn't be a surprise given that it is product of unenlightened culture from times of yore. As for beatings - I wonder if supporters of these would support it still if other adults in positions of authority over them would be allowed to beat them too? It's fucking disgrace that this primitive practice still have people deeming it good.

I'm not going to lie, Comrade Cat -- I can think of a few "adults" desperately in need of a beat-down.

Then that whole Golden Rule thing sets in on me. Be my better self, and all that.

I'd still like to take a good whack or three at the orange turdmonkey. I'd learn him a little, and I'll take the negative karma.

[Szuchow]

Bible is problematic in nearly everything aspect which shouldn't be a surprise given that it is product of unenlightened culture from times of yore. As for beatings - I wonder if supporters of these would support it still if other adults in positions of authority over them would be allowed to beat them too? It's fucking disgrace that this primitive practice still have people deeming it good.

I'm not going to lie, Comrade Cat -- I can think of a few "adults" desperately in need of a beat-down.

Then that whole Golden Rule thing sets in on me. Be my better self, and all that.

I'd still like to take a good whack or three at the orange turdmonkey. I'd learn him a little, and I'll take the negative karma.

Everyone can think of a few I suppose. Also i doubt that trump is teachable no matter how often he would be whacked.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Everyone can think of a few I suppose. Also i doubt that trump is teachable no matter how often he would be whacked.

But it'd be fun even if he learns nothing. I can be an asshole that way.

[Szuchow]

Everyone can think of a few I suppose. Also i doubt that trump is teachable no matter how often he would be whacked.

But it'd be fun even if he learns nothing. I can be an asshole that way.

I definitely can see how it could be fun. Also wanting to punch trump hardly make one asshole, Buddha himself would be tempted to beat the shit out of him.