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Poll: What faith were you raised in before becoming an atheist?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Presbyterian
0%
0 0%
Lutheran
5.26%
1 5.26%
Episcopalian
0%
0 0%
Catholic
26.32%
5 26.32%
Methodist
15.79%
3 15.79%
Baptist
15.79%
3 15.79%
Evangelical
5.26%
1 5.26%
Charismatic/Pentecostal
5.26%
1 5.26%
Non-Christian Religion: Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism,
5.26%
1 5.26%
Other (please share)
21.05%
4 21.05%
Total 19 vote(s) 100%
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Faith Before Atheism
#26

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 06:58 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: So, Kathryn, have you seen how these questions don't really hit, and more to the point, create an unrepresentative narrative of atheism?

You say you used to this, or used to that, before you became a christian.  No one is going to believe that.  You're doing heavy lifting in the framing of these posts that suggest you have always been a fundy asshole.

Now, that may not actually be true, but if so...think about it.....

I thought her post was well-meaning and allowed for a lot of reasonable discussion. I enjoyed replying to it. Was there something specific you objected to?
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#27

Faith Before Atheism
.........? I'm just pointing out that these questions in these forms don't really mean anything to anyone who didn't actively leave some batshit form of jesusim. Doesn't mean that our new friend Kathy is a bad faith actor...though the good money is actually on that possibility.....it just means that any factual answer to those various questions are not possible within the framework that assumes atheism is a thing you choose into rather than always were a part of.
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#28

Faith Before Atheism
I doubt 'Fellow atheists' is a term an atheist would use. But a theist wouldn't know that, and the way the op is constructed is typical boilerplate concern troll stuff. This Nailed it:

'Why did you choose atheism vs agnosticism or another religion?'

But this is hardly a revelation it was pretty obvious from her earlier posts where she was heading.
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#29

Faith Before Atheism
Back in the early oughts, when I was still in the christian orbit, I watched the collapse of christendom, in my community, in real time.

No one opened the eyes of their hearts. I'm still here, still wishing.
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#30

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 07:39 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: .........?  I'm just pointing out that these questions in these forms don't really mean anything to anyone who didn't actively leave some batshit form of jesusim.  Doesn't mean that our new friend Kathy is a bad faith actor...though the good money is actually on that possibility.....it just means that any factual answer to those various questions are not possible within the framework that assumes atheism is a thing you choose into rather than always were a part of.

I think atheism is something you decide about in a world of theists constantly hitting on you about your "hell-bound" lack of faith. I decided early in my life that there were no deities and I have not much doubted it since. Superstitious people make up terrible consequences of not agreeing with them (among many conflicting versions). Partially, they believe in those terrible consequences to help maintain their own fears of "straying", but also hoping for punishment for those who disagree.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#31

Faith Before Atheism
That may have been your experience. It wasn't mine. No one wasted time trying to win my soul. There was never a point where I chose between one state of belief or another. I guess it's important to remeber that I didn't have some elaborate facade of unitary familial belief to "choose" to accept or reject.

God beliefs impose themselves even on atheists, in ways that we/they don't always appreciate. The form of the opq was "where were you before, when did you leave, and why." - but there was never a before, there was no when, and there is no why.

-in my case.
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#32

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 08:24 AM)Inkubus Wrote: I doubt 'Fellow atheists' is a term an atheist would use. But a theist wouldn't know that, and the way the op is constructed is typical boilerplate concern troll stuff. This Nailed it:

'Why did you choose atheism vs agnosticism or another religion?'

But this is hardly a revelation it was pretty obvious from her earlier posts where she was heading.

I consider other atheists to be "fellow atheists". Why would you object to that? I also consider other democrats to be "fellow democrats", people who like cats to be "fellow cat lovers", and other gardeners to be "fellow gardeners". I don't understand your objection.

"'Why did you choose atheism vs agnosticism or another religion?" seems to be a reasonable question. What upsets you about that?
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#33

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 08:24 AM)Inkubus Wrote: I doubt 'Fellow atheists' is a term an atheist would use. But a theist wouldn't know that, and the way the op is constructed is typical boilerplate concern troll stuff. This Nailed it:

'Why did you choose atheism vs agnosticism or another religion?'

But this is hardly a revelation it was pretty obvious from her earlier posts where she was heading.

Where was she heading?
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#34

Faith Before Atheism
The usual place, quite innocently™, I'm sure...but still quite innacurately and wholly explicably by christianized tropes.

Atheism, agnosticism, and religion are not opposed options. You can be all three at once. There's no choice between them. Only protestant christo-fascists from the us in the last 15 years contextualize the three as distinct lanes that people choose from. Oops. The whole "before I was christian" thing is performative. Anyone who says it was always...and always was ...christian. What they're saying when they offer that up is that..they think...they weren't the right kind of christain.

-and now they are. Hallelujah!
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#35

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 02:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Why do they define it as belief/disbelief when addressing someone's knowledge? Agnosticism refers to what one knows or doesn't know. It literally has nothing to do with belief or disbelief. It's in the etymology. Whatever site you got that from seems ill-informed about the words it purports to define.

First one that came up. Just needed to challange that atheist = belief. 

Went and checked, "Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages".
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#36

Faith Before Atheism
Not all apply to me but I'll give a quick rundown before moving onto the Qs:

So my grandparents were religious, and my mother was raised that way. By the time I came around she'd long given up on the church but still believed. In saying that, my father never believed and it was agreed that I wouldn't be forced into anything. I live in, thus grew up in, England where while we're not a nation of "die hard believers" in general most would at least at the time identify as Christian. This was in the 90's so certain rules around faith/lack there of weren't in place - shops were shut on sundays and in my primary school we sang hymns like every day before doing anything that day. [this is no longer the case thanks to campaigning from equal representative people etc].

Because of the above, I would say I grew up with it "around me" but even then I was never like a full on believer or anything.

Now the Q's which I feel are relevant:

Was there ever a time you considered yourself agnostic before becoming an atheist?
So Atheism to me simply means "I dont have evidence that its real or not". I wouldn't say I'm agnostic/was agnostic, but my mind set has always been "we'll see when we get there". If I'm dead and gone - thats what I presume would happen. If I'm randomly in the alleged afterlife and the big G is there, then its a "fair enough" from me.

Are there other forms of religion or spirituality you like an appreciate?
I appreciate some of teachings of Buddhism, mainly around the materialism being bad and wanting things that others have got causes conflicts type of stuff. If you can't master yourself, why bother judging others.

Did you come from a more conservative or more liberal household?
Liberal - My mother, while being a believer [and more recently being back involved in the church], was always incredibly open and understanding with me as a kid. If I asked her something, she would tell me. No questions asked. My father is/was probably "more" liberal in the grand scheme of things, but my mother was and still is very cool.

What were your interests growing up (math, science, art, dancing, etc)?
Always was and still is Pro Wrestling as my first love, its dumb I know but its one thing I genuinely like. Other interests are music/reading/movies are a big part of my life/ Science as a whole always amazes me and I'm a huge space nerd as well.
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#37

Faith Before Atheism
Should we re-title to 'Faith Before Anti-theism'?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#38

Faith Before Atheism
(05-16-2024, 11:49 PM)Kathryn L Wrote: Hi, sorry, about me:  I was an atheist for 15 years.  I was raised mainly in the Methodist church.  There was a brief period of my very young childhood (maybe three to four years old) where I was raised in a hellfire brimstone baptist church run by a psychopathic preacher who preyed on people within the church to make them feel terrible about themselves.  

I'm sure methodism was a lot healthier, full of reasonably intelligent, kind people, and there was a huge social justice element which I really enjoyed, but I just did not see evidence for a loving God.  I also felt no one could answer a lot of my questions, which created a lot of frustration.  Sunday school didn't seem like a place for disagreeing much with the bible or what was going on within it.  It seemed more like a place where there was a "correct" answer already there and you just kind of had to go along with it.

Sounds like we arrived at atheism for pretty similar reasons, though your churches sound a lot less accepting than the one that I attended.

I read a little of Dawkins work before he degenerated into an embarrassing Old White Man. I didn't enjoy his writings on religion much but loved his work on biology and evolution. Ancestors Tale was brilliant.
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#39

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 10:59 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(05-16-2024, 11:49 PM)Kathryn L Wrote: Hi, sorry, about me:  I was an atheist for 15 years.  I was raised mainly in the Methodist church.  There was a brief period of my very young childhood (maybe three to four years old) where I was raised in a hellfire brimstone baptist church run by a psychopathic preacher who preyed on people within the church to make them feel terrible about themselves.  

I'm sure methodism was a lot healthier, full of reasonably intelligent, kind people, and there was a huge social justice element which I really enjoyed, but I just did not see evidence for a loving God.  I also felt no one could answer a lot of my questions, which created a lot of frustration.  Sunday school didn't seem like a place for disagreeing much with the bible or what was going on within it.  It seemed more like a place where there was a "correct" answer already there and you just kind of had to go along with it.

Sounds like we arrived at atheism for pretty similar reasons, though your churches sound a lot less accepting than the one that I attended.

I read a little of Dawkins work before he degenerated into an embarrassing Old White Man. I didn't enjoy his writings on religion much but loved his work on biology and evolution. Ancestors Tale was brilliant.

Read her bio, she claims to be a lot of things, atheist is not one of them.

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/mem...e&uid=1390
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#40

Faith Before Atheism
Isn't it interesting that for people who never -left- a religion...and don't believe that irreligious people ought to be role models on account of their irreligiosity or vv....have no fucking clue what dawkins said that embarassed the rest of you post-christians.

Wink
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#41

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 10:47 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 02:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Why do they define it as belief/disbelief when addressing someone's knowledge? Agnosticism refers to what one knows or doesn't know. It literally has nothing to do with belief or disbelief. It's in the etymology. Whatever site you got that from seems ill-informed about the words it purports to define.

First one that came up. Just needed to challange that atheist = belief. 

Went and checked, "Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages".

Agree that atheism is not a belief. It is an absence of one. Like bald is a hair color. Or silence is a musical sound. I don't have a "belief". Everyone was an atheist until some idiot thought up a deity.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#42

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 10:51 AM)OakTree500 Wrote: Not all apply to me but I'll give a quick rundown before moving onto the Qs:

So my grandparents were religious, and my mother was raised that way. By the time I came around she'd long given up on the church but still believed. In saying that, my father never believed and it was agreed that I wouldn't be forced into anything. I live in, thus grew up in, England where while we're not a nation of "die hard believers" in general most would at least at the time identify as Christian. This was in the 90's so certain rules around faith/lack there of weren't in place - shops were shut on sundays and in my primary school we sang hymns like every day before doing anything that day. [this is no longer the case thanks to campaigning from equal representative people etc].

Because of the above, I would say I grew up with it "around me" but even then I was never like a full on believer or anything.

Now the Q's which I feel are relevant:

Was there ever a time you considered yourself agnostic before becoming an atheist?  
So Atheism to me simply means "I dont have evidence that its real or not". I wouldn't say I'm agnostic/was agnostic, but my mind set has always been "we'll see when we get there". If I'm dead and gone - thats what I presume would happen. If I'm randomly in the alleged afterlife and the big G is there, then its a "fair enough" from me.

Are there other forms of religion or spirituality you like an appreciate?
I appreciate some of teachings of Buddhism, mainly around the materialism being bad and wanting things that others have got causes conflicts type of stuff. If you can't master yourself, why bother judging others.

Did you come from a more conservative or more liberal household?
Liberal - My mother, while being a believer [and more recently being back involved in the church], was always incredibly open and understanding with me as a kid. If I asked her something, she would tell me. No questions asked. My father is/was probably "more" liberal in the grand scheme of things, but my mother was and still is very cool.

What were your interests growing up (math, science, art, dancing, etc)?
Always was and still is Pro Wrestling as my first love, its dumb I know but its one thing I genuinely like. Other interests are music/reading/movies are a big part of my life/ Science as a whole always amazes me and I'm a huge space nerd as well.

Your upbringing was much like mine. No pressure toward any view, but tolerance of choice.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#43

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 11:07 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 10:59 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Sounds like we arrived at atheism for pretty similar reasons, though your churches sound a lot less accepting than the one that I attended.

I read a little of Dawkins work before he degenerated into an embarrassing Old White Man. I didn't enjoy his writings on religion much but loved his work on biology and evolution. Ancestors Tale was brilliant.

Read her bio, she claims to be a lot of things, atheist is not one of them.

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/mem...e&uid=1390

NVM, apparently it got changed.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#44

Faith Before Atheism
I often had to deal with others first assuming I was a Christian or, that being Jewish, my beliefs aligned with theirs minus Jesus.

They struggled when discussing sin and hell…both concepts absent in Judaism…no matter how much they insisted sin and hell are the same for Jews. Nope.

Trying to explain that the Christian hell developed because they needed Jesus to save them from it was rather laughable. I never found a Christian to agree that the idea of the Christian hell wasn’t a thing. They also have problems with understanding how I couldn’t accept that Jesus was the messiah we Jews were looking for…nope, not even close. They’re telling me that Jews don’t understand our own Bible was my walk away point. We wrote the damn thing! The frustration of getting a Christian to view anything outside a Christian lens had me give up. Sure, I’ll discuss if they want but I also let them know that their definition of Judaism is completely wrong.
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#45

Faith Before Atheism
Atheism is the lack of belief...but theists simply cannot comprehend that concept.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#46

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 06:00 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Atheism is the lack of belief...but theists simply cannot comprehend that concept.

I think that’s why they come up with stupid sayings like “it takes more belief to believe in atheism” and accusing us of believing in science as a religion.  Absurd.
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#47

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 10:54 AM)brewerb Wrote: Should we re-title to 'Faith Before Anti-theism'?

That would actually make some sense. Obviously, there was no specific idea of atheism before there was a theism.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#48

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 11:07 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 10:59 AM)Paleophyte Wrote: Sounds like we arrived at atheism for pretty similar reasons, though your churches sound a lot less accepting than the one that I attended.

I read a little of Dawkins work before he degenerated into an embarrassing Old White Man. I didn't enjoy his writings on religion much but loved his work on biology and evolution. Ancestors Tale was brilliant.

Read her bio, she claims to be a lot of things, atheist is not one of them.

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/mem...e&uid=1390

Read it yesterday. And?
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#49

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 10:35 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 11:07 AM)brewerb Wrote: Read her bio, she claims to be a lot of things, atheist is not one of them.

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/mem...e&uid=1390

Read it yesterday. And?

Indicated 'former atheist'. From you post I thought you were under the impression Kat is a current atheist.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#50

Faith Before Atheism
(05-17-2024, 12:18 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-16-2024, 08:01 PM)Brian Shanahan Wrote: Day late:

1) catholic.
2) Between 8 and 18 as a catholic, slowly falling away after that until I went full atheist at about 25.
3) Pretty typical for a child brought up in eighties catholic Ireland.
4) See answer 2.
5) Acceptance, though my mother did want to hear my path of reasoning (she thought I had a good chain of logic). Got no pushback on my choice.
6) a) reading the bible, b) the first stirrings of the various sex abuse scandals and c) the final straw was watching the Channel 4 documentary on the Falling Man photo of 11/09/2001.  A family's vehement "no he wouldn't commit suicide, he was a good catholic man, he wouldn't disgrace god" on hearing their son may have been the person captured in the photo severed what lingering religious ties I had.
7) I'm an agnostic atheist in that I accept that there is insufficient evidence to say that a generic god doesn't exist.  Remember agnosticism is a knowledge position, atheism a belief lack of belief one.
8) Stupid question frankly.
9) No.
11) Not really, no.  There are philosophical systems which I find useful and good and some have been hijacked by religions, but religions themselves are not good.
13) Definitely leaning heavily towards social democracy from both parents.
14) Sport, reading, music, games.

FTFY.

Got this definition of the net for agnostic bold mine: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.



Question: do you have a disbelief in Zeus, Odin, any other 'god(s)' other than a mental construct?

Stating you hold a belief position doesn't indicate whether you believe of not, without elaboration.  It's simply a statement that you have insufficient evidence to know.
Factio Republicanus delenda est!
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