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Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
#51

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-17-2024, 06:32 PM)Dānu Wrote: [Image: 71Vt2yZphLL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg]

[Image: il_794xN.1037309626_c72u.jpg]
These are parody religions, so I tend not to count them.
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#52

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-17-2024, 08:22 PM)mordant Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 06:32 PM)Dānu Wrote: [Image: 71Vt2yZphLL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg]

[Image: il_794xN.1037309626_c72u.jpg]
These are parody religions, so I tend not to count them.

Second image...  "Christ bowls?"  Loved it.  Yes, I know that wasn't what the pic meant, but I had to smile.

I remember that first pic too...
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#53

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-17-2024, 08:56 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Second image...  "Christ bowls?"  Loved it.  Yes, I know that wasn't what the pic meant, but I had to smile.

I thought that is a take on the 'The Dude' from The Big Lewbowski. Drinking, bowling, toking............

“I’m the Dude, so that’s what you call me. That or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.”
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#54

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-17-2024, 10:16 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 08:56 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Second image...  "Christ bowls?"  Loved it.  Yes, I know that wasn't what the pic meant, but I had to smile.

I thought that is a take on the 'The Dude' from The Big Lewbowski. Drinking, bowling, toking............

“I’m the Dude, so that’s what you call me. That or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.”
Yes, the dude abides.
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#55

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-16-2024, 10:52 PM)halotaurusnova Wrote: Sometimes the sense of community and belonging in a church can be really appealing...

Possibly to you, but most definitely not to me.

Church congregations are bound together by fear
of the unknown, naivety, superstition, mythology,
gullibility, irrationality, sophism, and power plays.

Who'd want to be a part of that?    Thumbsdown
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#56

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-17-2024, 05:49 PM)pattylt Wrote: Since the Age of Reason arrived on the scene and science developed, has there been a creation of a new religion?  I’m not talking about a new sect developing from an older one or redefinitions of past beliefs, I’m talking about a completely new philosophy or “power”?

Obviously it would be a small group but also a growing one.  Most New Age stuff is reworking of older faiths.  The only one I can come up with was the Hale Bop group that self destructed awhile ago and I guess they worshipped aliens?

Scientology comes to mind.
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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#57

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-19-2024, 07:07 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 05:49 PM)pattylt Wrote: Since the Age of Reason arrived on the scene and science developed, has there been a creation of a new religion?  I’m not talking about a new sect developing from an older one or redefinitions of past beliefs, I’m talking about a completely new philosophy or “power”?

Obviously it would be a small group but also a growing one.  Most New Age stuff is reworking of older faiths.  The only one I can come up with was the Hale Bop group that self destructed awhile ago and I guess they worshipped aliens?

Scientology comes to mind.

Also Unarius Academy of Science, still active but their numbers have dwindled.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#58

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-19-2024, 07:07 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote:
(05-17-2024, 05:49 PM)pattylt Wrote: Since the Age of Reason arrived on the scene and science developed, has there been a creation of a new religion?  I’m not talking about a new sect developing from an older one or redefinitions of past beliefs, I’m talking about a completely new philosophy or “power”?

Obviously it would be a small group but also a growing one.  Most New Age stuff is reworking of older faiths.  The only one I can come up with was the Hale Bop group that self destructed awhile ago and I guess they worshipped aliens?

Scientology comes to mind.

Good catch!  I still have issues with considering it a religion but it checks many of the right boxes.  Cult behavior, a prophet, rituals and sometimes violet retribution on apostates…oh, and the IRS classification.  The only oddity is they don’t really worship a deity but do have supernatural beliefs.  So, yep, they’re a newbie.
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#59

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-19-2024, 07:20 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-19-2024, 07:07 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Scientology comes to mind.

Also Unarius Academy of Science, still active but their numbers have dwindled.

I’ve never heard of them!  Yes to cult like behavior, worship, afterlife, and channeling other dimensions!  Ok, we have two!
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#60

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
Maybe Dex can find something here, seems like it would maybe fit in with his global concerns also: https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#61

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
Scientology is a tough one. It's not strictly religious, closer to a very well organized self help scam. It would be a cult, not a religion...if we could credibly presume that the top brass aren't run of the mill crooks....but who thinks that would be a safe ledge to go out on? It's categorization as religious is a legal strategy, not a genuine claim.

It was highly derivative too. Basically, LRon was playing off of early psychiatry and in one very specific sense, playing it in a way that would be instrumental to their later development. People were doing alot of drugs in the burbs. We now know that these drugs were a shitshow, and that much of early psychiatry was bunk...and this had been what scientology had claimed all along (even if for no good or actual reason, per se). So...when the narcotics made their way down to the little people and caused a health crisis there they were, perfectly placed to hoover up government money and look right-ish all along.

It's extremely difficult, or at least it appears to be extremely difficult, for an actual religion to come up fresh and new. You need a pre-existing critical mass that's already receptive to whatever idea or packaging you have in mind. Otherwise you have no community, and that's the real hurdle in religious formation. Chicken and egg deal. You need the religion to build the community, but you need the community to build the religion.
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#62

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-19-2024, 08:22 PM)Rhythmcs Wrote: It was highly derivative too.   Basically, LRon was playing off of early psychiatry and in one very specific sense, playing it in a way that would be instrumental to their later development.  

True to a point. Xenu is all Scientology's baby.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#63

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
I'm not sure there's any reliable info on when he first started cooking particular that bit up, but a galactic overlord probably wouldn't be all that innovative in 50's sci fi. I like his fiction, read it when I was a kid, but even as a fan I wouldn't call his stuff super original.

The thing is that the xenu bit isn't specifically religious nor is scientology specifically religious in anything other than a tax code, additionally, it doesn't appear to have factored into it's formation. Some elements of the story appear in pieces in some early works - but it looks like xenu was very much a work in progress or an idea not yet explored when scientology was founded. Really hammering the nail on this coffin is that scientology officially denied the story and sought to suppress it..which is exactly backwards from a religious perspective and spot on from a cult perspective.

People tell crazy stories all the time. Cults crop up with some regularity too..either outside of traditional religions or within them - but most of them fail to crest the religious hill. I guess the silver lining here is that the difference between cults and religions being organizational, and cults simply not being very fertile ground for religious development, most will fade into irrelevance long before anyone notices them, before their high water marks. In scientology's case, the high water mark appears to have hit before the burgeoning community actually knew much about their new set of organizing principles (the fatal flaw of close holds) and it was just too wierd..even for them.
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#64

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
[Image: W1siZiIsIjIwMTUvMDkvMDEvMDBfMzlfMTdfNDc0...a=aff1e82f]

Quote:John Frum (also called Jon Frum, John Brum, and John Prum) is a figure associated with cargo cults on the island of Tanna in Vanuatu. He is often depicted as an American World War II serviceman who will bring wealth and prosperity to the people if they follow him. Quoting David Attenborough's report of an encounter: "'E look like you. 'E got white face. 'E tall man. 'E live 'long South America."

In the 1990s, there were still reportedly over 5,000 members of the John Frum movement. Belief in John Frum is in decline, however; as of 2022, there are fewer than 500 practitioners. Currently, only the village of Lamakara is faithful to the John Frum faith on the island of Tanna. The rest of the island has been mostly converted by Christian missionaries based in Sulphur Bay.

Wikipedia
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#65

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
That's probably one of the stronger cases, though the belief in john or philip was an overlay on an existing god tradition, as in the similar case of pre-columbian mexico. What was inarguably novel and also represents a religious claim were the pier and byre constructions. It didn't stick, though. Christianity had already built itself a vast set of cultural and economic advantages. That's the second hurdle..more or less difficult than the first depending on the host culture. If you solve the chicken and egg problem you get an opportunity to scale mt. improbable.
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#66

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
Religions are simply cults.

Quote:A cult is a group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader,
who tightly controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs
and practices
which are considered outside the norms of society.

It is in most contexts a pejorative term, also used for a new religious movement
or other social group which is defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical
beliefs and rituals, or its common interest in a particular person, object, or goal. This
sense of the term is weakly defined—having divergent definitions both in popular culture
and academia.

An older sense of the word cult, which is not pejorative, involves a set of  religious
devotional practices to a particular figure
, that is conventional within its culture, and
is related.  A derived sense of "excessive devotion" (as per cults) arose in the 19th century.
[Paraphrased from Wikipedia.]

In a scientifically-enlightened 21st century, anybody who seriously
believes in the real-world existence of supernatural entities and/or
paranormal phenomena is truly living outside the "norms of society".

—The Pope and Jesus Christ come to mind do they not, as "cult" leaders?
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#67

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
Yes I do on occasion especially when I take my mum to church but like you I cannot get passed the absurdity of belief in deities, it is however quite fun listening to the sermons and counting off the number of logical fallacies and instances where magical thinking must be invoked in order to make a story work.
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#68

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-19-2024, 10:15 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(05-16-2024, 10:52 PM)halotaurusnova Wrote: Sometimes the sense of community and belonging in a church can be really appealing...

Possibly to you, but most definitely not to me.

Church congregations are bound together by fear
of the unknown, naivety, superstition, mythology,
gullibility, irrationality, sophism, and power plays.

Who'd want to be a part of that?    Thumbsdown

Yes. "fear of the unknown, naivety, superstition, mythology, gullibility, irrationality, sophism, and power plays". I feel sad sometimes for their need to belong to a superstitious community. Sometimes, I think everyone has the right to be stupid, but I always regret it when I think about it later. What we need is better education.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#69

Sometimes I crave belief in God (which one?) and to be part of a local church..
(05-20-2024, 09:05 AM)adey67 Wrote: Yes I do on occasion especially when I take my mum to church but like you I cannot get passed the absurdity of belief in deities, it is however quite fun listening to the sermons and counting off the number of logical fallacies and instances where magical thinking must be invoked in order to make a story work.

When they make false equivalencies is when I shake my head the most. The most recent one I recall was 'you trust electricity to be there when you want it, god will be there also if you trust in the lord'. Facepalm
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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