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Question No. 2
#1

Question No. 2
Would life be more or less enjoyable with neither gods nor belief in them to affect mood?

Those of us who abandoned belief because the belief had oppressive effects find life more enjoyable than previously; but believers can't imagine life without the belief, with one poster herein putting down in writing that such things as joy do not happen naturally but are granted by divine intercession.

Again, a not so simple question.
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#2

Question No. 2
Gods may be societies invention of a kinder gentler form of Thorazine.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#3

Question No. 2
(05-06-2024, 10:31 AM)airportkid Wrote: Would life be more or less enjoyable with neither gods nor belief in them to affect mood?

There would be no change whatsoever in happiness with or without religion.
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#4

Question No. 2
I was in an almost constant state of depression during my childhood, the result of a Catholic upbringing. I'd have to say a definite yes to this question.
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#5

Question No. 2
The first part of your question, "Would life be more
or less enjoyable with neither gods..." is moot.
   
Gods do not exist.       End of story.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#6

Question No. 2
(05-06-2024, 10:31 AM)airportkid Wrote: Would life be more or less enjoyable with neither gods nor belief in them to affect mood?

Those of us who abandoned belief because the belief had oppressive effects find life more enjoyable than previously; but believers can't imagine life without the belief, with one poster herein putting down in writing that such things as joy do not happen naturally but are granted by divine intercession.

Again, a not so simple question.
For me, my belief in god impacted my mood only to the extent that god did not appear to actually be an actor in my field of awareness, when I expected him to be. So in my particular case, as you say, I was abandoning a belief that was causing me pain via cognitive dissonance.

I am wiling to allow that probably, for most theists, their beliefs are calming / comforting, at least assuming a reasonably fortunate and privileged life that doesn't really put those beliefs to any real test. Therefore I would expect those same people to be more anxious, etc., absent those comforts. Which means they would probably just invent gods anyway, amirite?
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#7

Question No. 2
While I think some theists believe in god because they want a life after death, I think many of them just want someone in authority, someone to tell them how to behave and controls their life more than they are able to control it. The question of “is this all there is” is uncomfortable and knowing a god is in charge is comforting as well.

I remember a study years ago that pointed out the tolerance of fear is much lower in theists than atheists. Their heightened level of fear drives them toward a solution that god will address and lessen their fears.
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#8

Question No. 2
I believe I read that archeology indicates that early religious remains and human burials appeared approximately around the same time, approximately 40K years ago.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#9

Question No. 2
(05-08-2024, 12:55 AM)pattylt Wrote: While I think some theists believe in god because they want a life after death, I think many of them just want someone in authority, someone to tell them how to behave and controls their life more than they are able to control it.  The question of “is this all there is” is uncomfortable and knowing a god is in charge is comforting as well.

I remember a study years ago that pointed out the tolerance of fear is much lower in theists than atheists.  Their heightened level of fear drives them toward a solution that god will address and lessen their fears.

Fear is a survival instinct from when pre-humans and early humans were prey to predators. And we still have that with large predators like tigers, lions, and bears. We may be the apex species now, but individuals still have something to fear from the remaining current ones.

When you think "God will protect me" (from predators or difficult survival scenarios) of course it is comforting. But it is mostly like children assuming their parents will keep them safe from dangers. They can't always (as we learn as we grow up), so some people transfer their sense of protection to a deity. It is false, of course, but it is surely very comforting.

Theists live in a dream world. Atheists have to deal with reality.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#10

Question No. 2
(05-08-2024, 01:16 AM)brewerb Wrote: I believe I read that archeology indicates that early religious remains and human burials appeared approximately around the same time, approximately 40K years ago.

The oldest known intentional human burial took place approximately 100,000 years ago in a cave in Qafzeh, Israel according to best estimates.

Religious ideas are harder to determine. Burials may have been connected to some concept of a deity or just practical respect for deceased members of the group.

A possible earliest symbol of developing religious thought may be the Löwenmensch figurine (38,000 BC), the oldest known zoomorphic (animal/human-shaped) sculpture in the world and one of the oldest known sculptures in general, was made. The sculpture has been interpreted as religious, assigning human characteristics to an animal power. It may have represented an early deity.

But there is a big difference between 100,00 and 38,000 years.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#11

Question No. 2
I think that even believers would be happier if no one would force belief in god down their throats during their childhood.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#12

Question No. 2
(05-10-2024, 02:36 AM)Szuchow Wrote: I think that even believers would be happier if no one would force belief in god down their throats during their childhood.

Are you saying that religious adults consciously regret their childhood religious indoctrination or that they would be happier people now if it hadn't ever happened? There is a difference there.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#13

Question No. 2
(05-08-2024, 12:55 AM)pattylt Wrote: While I think some theists believe in god because they want a life after death, I think many of them just want someone in authority, someone to tell them how to behave and controls their life more than they are able to control it.  The question of “is this all there is” is uncomfortable and knowing a god is in charge is comforting as well.

I remember a study years ago that pointed out the tolerance of fear is much lower in theists than atheists.  Their heightened level of fear drives them toward a solution that god will address and lessen their fears.

Yes....just human ego run amok.  "How can the universe possibly survive without me!"
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#14

Question No. 2
I don’t think it’s so much of how will the universe survive without me as it’s I don’t want the universe to survive without me.
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#15

Question No. 2
(05-08-2024, 06:03 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-08-2024, 01:16 AM)brewerb Wrote: I believe I read that archeology indicates that early religious remains and human burials appeared approximately around the same time, approximately 40K years ago.

The oldest known intentional human burial took place approximately 100,000 years ago in a cave in Qafzeh, Israel according to best estimates.

Religious ideas are harder to determine.  Burials may have been connected to some concept of a deity or just practical respect for deceased members of the group.  

A possible earliest symbol of developing religious thought may be the Löwenmensch figurine (38,000 BC), the oldest known zoomorphic (animal/human-shaped) sculpture in the world and one of the oldest known sculptures in general, was made. The sculpture has been interpreted as religious, assigning human characteristics to an animal power.  It may have represented an early deity.

But there is a big difference between 100,00 and 38,000 years.
Probably thinking of the earliest evidence of ritual burial and/or funerary custom.  People have been caring for their dead in any number of ways for a long time - but large numbers of people caring for their dead in precisely the same  way is, almost by default, evidence of a more complicated social factor than private or individual belief or grief.  We posit that the more complicated social factor would amount to our burgeoning religions.
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#16

Question No. 2
(05-10-2024, 07:44 PM)pattylt Wrote: I don’t think it’s so much of how will the universe survive without me as it’s I don’t want the universe to survive without me.
"If I can't have eternal life, no one can!"
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#17

Question No. 2
(05-12-2024, 07:06 PM)mordant Wrote:
(05-10-2024, 07:44 PM)pattylt Wrote: I don’t think it’s so much of how will the universe survive without me as it’s I don’t want the universe to survive without me.
"If I can't have eternal life, no one can!"

You could have immortality, but it's not what you would want or expect.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#18

Question No. 2
I really have no desire for immortality. I figure close to 100 years max is plenty enough.
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#19

Question No. 2
I wouldn't mind immortality. There's no end to bettering oneself. The only drag would be if there's no change, that it's the same, over and over again.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#20

Question No. 2
(05-12-2024, 10:23 PM)Dānu Wrote: I wouldn't mind immortality.  There's no end to bettering oneself.  The only drag would be if there's no change, that it's the same, over and over again.

bold: That's exactly what it would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#21

Question No. 2
(05-12-2024, 10:30 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(05-12-2024, 10:23 PM)Dānu Wrote: I wouldn't mind immortality.  There's no end to bettering oneself.  The only drag would be if there's no change, that it's the same, over and over again.

bold: That's exactly what it would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line

You don't know that.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#22

Question No. 2
(05-12-2024, 10:32 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(05-12-2024, 10:30 PM)brewerb Wrote: bold: That's exactly what it would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line

You don't know that.

Seems very likely.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#23

Question No. 2
For some, ditching oppressive beliefs can definitely lead to a more enjoyable life, finding joy in the freedom and self-discovery. On the other hand, believers often find comfort and happiness in their faith, thinking it’s the source of their joy. It's all about personal experience and perspective. In the end, what matters most is finding what brings you genuine happiness and peace.
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