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Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
#26

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
To paraphrase Winnie-the-Pooh The more people looked everywhere the more god wasn't there.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#27

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-07-2024, 03:33 AM)Astreja Wrote: My primary objection:  Christianity's foundational myth is absurd and morally repugnant.  The combination of a human sacrifice that comes back from the dead, plus the threat of eternal punishment for people who reject this sacrifice, is absolutely unacceptable to me.  Ghastly and disgusting and utterly risible.

I believe that if there ever was a Jesus, he died and stayed dead.

I believe that the god of the Bible is fictional.

Sun
I am not fire-wood!
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#28

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-07-2024, 05:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote: To paraphrase Winnie-the-Pooh The more people looked everywhere the more god wasn't there.

Sun
I am not fire-wood!
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#29

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-06-2024, 02:32 PM)Dexta Wrote: 1. No evidence for the Xtian God's existence.
2. The fact of biological evolution extirpating the "theory" of divine creation.
3. The suffering of the innocents.

I have to agree with Dexta.  Nod
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#30

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
Yo Ruan, ya coming back or just taking the dog whistle responses?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#31

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-06-2024, 08:00 AM)Ruan Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm aware these have been discussed here extensively, but I'm reaching out to the community as part of a project for my studies. What do you ( personally ) consider the three most significant objections that prevent you from believing in Christianity? This is not a rebuttal (regardless of my username) You don't have to elaborate too much unless you feel like it, just three main points. Thanks Smile

I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not Christian (I'm Jewish). 

My top three reasons why I reject Christianity is because:

Jesus wasn't the Jewish messiah. Jesus lacks the appropriate pedigree to even qualify for the job, and during his lifetime, he failed to fulfill the required tasks to earn the title. No one to date has achieved the title, so he's not alone in this unfortunate failure. -Believe me. We WANT the messiah; it just wasn't him for us. 

Christians are constantly telling us to stop being Jewish and start being Christians (or else!). They reimagine our texts and try to tell us that our unbroken chain of communication going back thousands of years is somehow filled with errors, but the only errors the Christians ever find are the ones that don't support their revisionism narratives.  

Judaism is a great religion for the Jews, and we see no reason to become Christians. You can keep your Christianity, and the Hindus can keep their Hinduism. I hope the Muslims find peace and satisfaction in their religion, and Buddhists seem happy and fulfilled with their religion, too. My Atheist friends live wonderful, moral, meaningful lives. We don't need to be the same. 

I want to restate this because often Christians just don't get that last one. I have examined your religion. I found it to be lacking in depth and wisdom. I don't want to be a Christian; I don't like Jesus. I don't like a religion that feels like Pumpkin Spice Judaism. You can keep the froo froo fakery. I like the real thing.
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#32

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
What a weird fucking reason not to be christian. The guy didn't pass the job interview? Pedigrees and unbroken chains? Christ.

Your shit is no more real than the christians shit. You're deluding yourself if you imagine otherwise. That's not even different shit..it's the same shit.......
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#33

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
For me, Judaism has always been the least offensive of the Abrahamic religions... I've never seen any kind of Jewish evangelism for one thing; it's a religion that keeps itself to itself, and I appreciate it for that... compared to Christianity for instance, which I primarily associate with hypocrisy; people talking the talk but not walking the walk so to speak in their evangelism. And apart from certain practices (ie circumcision) I think there's some beautiful tradition in Judaism and the sound of the Hebrew language in songs and rituals is also very beautiful. And finally I've always felt a bit sorry for it... for how Christianity usurped it or parasitised it or however you want to put it.
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#34

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-06-2024, 08:00 AM)Ruan Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm aware these have been discussed here extensively, but I'm reaching out to the community as part of a project for my studies. What do you ( personally ) consider the three most significant objections that prevent you from believing in Christianity? This is not a rebuttal (regardless of my username) You don't have to elaborate too much unless you feel like it, just three main points. Thanks Smile

I mean, I probably can't give 3 specifically as the BIG one kind of covers all of the reasons: "evidence".

There is as much Evidence for the Christian god as there is for any other religions god or gods - none. All the various religions say this and that, but none of it is provable nor has any of this, allegedly, happened to anybody in modern times and/or the world over. [For example: Christian god is only happening in a specific time frame in the middle east are of the world - despite people being around long before Christianity in other places of the world and having no recorded history of the same god].

Thats pretty much it - if you only study the holy text[s], then you have no evidence of any kind.
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#35

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
Biggest Objections...

What would I do with one if I found one (apart from telling it what a shit job it's done so far.)?

I don't need one.

It doesn't seem to do anything useful, life is already complicated enough, believing in deities just makes everything even worse.
[Image: 20220702-163925.jpg]

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

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#36

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-09-2024, 06:14 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: What a weird fucking reason not to be christian.  The guy didn't pass the job interview?  Pedigrees and unbroken chains?  Christ.

Your shit is no more real than the christians shit.  You're deluding yourself if you imagine otherwise.  That's not even different shit..it's the same shit.......

Okay...

Anyway!

(04-09-2024, 12:49 PM)emjay Wrote: For me, Judaism has always been the least offensive of the Abrahamic religions... I've never seen any kind of Jewish evangelism for one thing; it's a religion that keeps itself to itself, and I appreciate it for that... compared to Christianity for instance, which I primarily associate with hypocrisy; people talking the talk but not walking the walk so to speak in their evangelism. And apart from certain practices (ie circumcision) I think there's some beautiful tradition in Judaism and the sound of the Hebrew language in songs and rituals is also very beautiful. And finally I've always felt a bit sorry for it... for how Christianity usurped it or parasitised it or however you want to put it.

Thank you, that's very kind of you to point out. No, we don't proseltyze. We don't get our rocks off on convincing people to believe what we believe. But I do tend to answer kindly phrased questions when asked. Smile
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#37

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-07-2024, 05:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote: To paraphrase Winnie-the-Pooh The more people looked everywhere the more god wasn't there.

I didn't get the reference, but it sounds great! So I enjoyed it anyway... Smile
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#38

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-08-2024, 08:53 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(04-06-2024, 08:00 AM)Ruan Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm aware these have been discussed here extensively, but I'm reaching out to the community as part of a project for my studies. What do you ( personally ) consider the three most significant objections that prevent you from believing in Christianity? This is not a rebuttal (regardless of my username) You don't have to elaborate too much unless you feel like it, just three main points. Thanks Smile

I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not Christian (I'm Jewish). 

My top three reasons why I reject Christianity is because:

Jesus wasn't the Jewish messiah. Jesus lacks the appropriate pedigree to even qualify for the job, and during his lifetime, he failed to fulfill the required tasks to earn the title. No one to date has achieved the title, so he's not alone in this unfortunate failure. -Believe me. We WANT the messiah; it just wasn't him for us. 

Christians are constantly telling us to stop being Jewish and start being Christians (or else!). They reimagine our texts and try to tell us that our unbroken chain of communication going back thousands of years is somehow filled with errors, but the only errors the Christians ever find are the ones that don't support their revisionism narratives.  

Judaism is a great religion for the Jews, and we see no reason to become Christians. You can keep your Christianity, and the Hindus can keep their Hinduism. I hope the Muslims find peace and satisfaction in their religion, and Buddhists seem happy and fulfilled with their religion, too. My Atheist friends live wonderful, moral, meaningful lives. We don't need to be the same. 

I want to restate this because often Christians just don't get that last one. I have examined your religion. I found it to be lacking in depth and wisdom. I don't want to be a Christian; I don't like Jesus. I don't like a religion that feels like Pumpkin Spice Judaism. You can keep the froo froo fakery. I like the real thing.

I am one of those non-jews who can actually and honestly say "my best friends were Jewish".  I was culturally (but not religiously) raised in a vague protestant culture.  My teenage friends who were Christian always seemed to be slightly disturbed by that.  Fortunately, I grew up in a neighborhood where there were "all kinds".  My jewish friends never really cared about my developing lack of beliefs.  So we got along just fine.

They weren't trying to convert me and I wasn't trying to convert them.  Worked out fine for all of us.  I never had a Jewish friend tell me I was a sinner (as some Christian friends sometimes suggested, especially on Sunday afternoons when they returned from Sunday School indoctrination).

I don't agree with Jews about their beliefs either, but at least they don't try to convert me.  

A joke:  4 people are playing Hearts (or Bridge or whatever)...

Me:  I think I'll throw down a 2.
Jew:  I think I'll throw down an 8.
Protestant:  Jesus says to use a Trump.  Always.
Catholic:  They are all conspiring against me.  I better pray my Pope King wins the hand.

LOL!
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#39

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
What do you think Ruans project was?

I'm hoping for diorama.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#40

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-10-2024, 12:27 AM)brewerb Wrote: What do you think Ruans project was?

I'm hoping for diorama.

In a shoebox or a cigar box?  I loved making those as a kid.
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#41

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
1.
2.
3.

My objections are listed above. They are very clear and concise and I believe you know very well what they are without even reading them.
These objections are completely backed up by thousands of years of research on the topic and I know you'll accept my objections without even knowing what my evidence is.
Just take it on faith that my objections are completely valid.

I can see no reason not to.

Should you feel the need to not accept my objections, I'll have no choice but to send you to hell.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
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#42

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-10-2024, 04:54 AM)Rahn127 Wrote: 1.
2.
3.

My objections are listed above. They are very clear and concise and I believe you know very well what they are without even reading them.
These objections are completely backed up by thousands of years of research on the topic and I know you'll accept my objections without even knowing what my evidence is.
Just take it on faith that my objections are completely valid.

I can see no reason not to.

Should you feel the need to not accept my objections, I'll have no choice but to send you to hell.

Key words and phrases here are "believe", "without even knowing what my evidence is", "just take it on faith, and "I can see no reason not to". These are hallmarks of an unthinking mind. Faith will not get you into some version of "heaven", nor will my lack of any get me into "hell".

The number of theists (and the intensity of their beliefs) are diminishing as more people see science, logic, and reasoning being more useful to their understanding of life and our place in the universe expands. Theism is slowly going the way of "flat Earth", "Earth centralism", and "sun centralism".

As we humans use our brains to explore subjects previously "decided on faith" by people like you, we learn more that is actually useful to us. But someday, your religious beliefs and deity will seem as quaint as Zeus or Odin or Mithra.

I just feel sad I won't live to see the day when the last theist is treated the same as the last flat-earther. "some poor twit who just can't think very clearly".

I fully accept your right to believe as you do, but I won't give it any particular respect, either.
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#43

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-10-2024, 04:54 AM)Rahn127 Wrote: 1.
2.
3.

My objections are listed above. They are very clear and concise and I believe you know very well what they are without even reading them.
These objections are completely backed up by thousands of years of research on the topic and I know you'll accept my objections without even knowing what my evidence is.
Just take it on faith that my objections are completely valid.

I can see no reason not to.

Should you feel the need to not accept my objections, I'll have no choice but to send you to hell.

Two shay. Homework assignment completed!
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#44

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-09-2024, 03:27 PM)OakTree500 Wrote:
(04-06-2024, 08:00 AM)Ruan Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm aware these have been discussed here extensively, but I'm reaching out to the community as part of a project for my studies. What do you ( personally ) consider the three most significant objections that prevent you from believing in Christianity? This is not a rebuttal (regardless of my username) You don't have to elaborate too much unless you feel like it, just three main points. Thanks Smile

I mean, I probably can't give 3 specifically as the BIG one kind of covers all of the reasons: "evidence".

There is as much Evidence for the Christian god as there is for any other religions god or gods - none. All the various religions say this and that, but none of it is provable nor has any of this, allegedly, happened to anybody in modern times and/or the world over. [For example: Christian god is only happening in a specific time frame in the middle east are of the world - despite people being around long before Christianity in other places of the world and having no recorded history of the same god].

Thats pretty much it - if you only study the holy text[s], then you have no evidence of any kind.

OK, generally I agree. But there really was Mithris, right? Dance
Two paths diverged in the woods, and I managed to take both...
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#45

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-08-2024, 08:53 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(04-06-2024, 08:00 AM)Ruan Wrote: Hello everyone, I'm aware these have been discussed here extensively, but I'm reaching out to the community as part of a project for my studies. What do you ( personally ) consider the three most significant objections that prevent you from believing in Christianity? This is not a rebuttal (regardless of my username) You don't have to elaborate too much unless you feel like it, just three main points. Thanks Smile

I'm not an atheist, but I'm also not Christian (I'm Jewish). 

My top three reasons why I reject Christianity is because:

Jesus wasn't the Jewish messiah. Jesus lacks the appropriate pedigree to even qualify for the job, and during his lifetime, he failed to fulfill the required tasks to earn the title. No one to date has achieved the title, so he's not alone in this unfortunate failure. -Believe me. We WANT the messiah; it just wasn't him for us. 

Christians are constantly telling us to stop being Jewish and start being Christians (or else!). They reimagine our texts and try to tell us that our unbroken chain of communication going back thousands of years is somehow filled with errors, but the only errors the Christians ever find are the ones that don't support their revisionism narratives.  

Judaism is a great religion for the Jews, and we see no reason to become Christians. You can keep your Christianity, and the Hindus can keep their Hinduism. I hope the Muslims find peace and satisfaction in their religion, and Buddhists seem happy and fulfilled with their religion, too. My Atheist friends live wonderful, moral, meaningful lives. We don't need to be the same. 

I want to restate this because often Christians just don't get that last one. I have examined your religion. I found it to be lacking in depth and wisdom. I don't want to be a Christian; I don't like Jesus. I don't like a religion that feels like Pumpkin Spice Judaism. You can keep the froo froo fakery. I like the real thing.

I remember reading this post that day it was written, been thinking about it ever since.

I have a question though. What would you have to have witnessed to say 'this man is the Messiah?
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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#46

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
These are the criteria which jews laid out for this messiah asshole to fulfill.

Quote:He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

Jesus...like a really shitty ball player, went 0 for 6.  Send his ass to the minors.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#47

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-12-2024, 01:07 AM)Minimalist Wrote: These are the criteria which jews laid out for this messiah asshole to fulfill.

Quote:He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

Jesus...like a really shitty ball player, went 0 for 6.  Send his ass to the minors.

@possibletarian I'm quoting this because it's more or less accurate. But assuming Jesus was a real person, he's actually 1 for 7. Jesus was Jewish, and therefore he did fulfill that requirement. 

The Jewish Messiah is just a regular, mortal fellow who has a specific pedigree and either achieves these great deeds, or those deeds are in place at the time he rules, ie: world peace, rebuilds the temple, Jews all following the commandments, everyone serves one G-d. I've more often been taught the messiah accomplishes these tasks, but if someone else accomplishes them and the would-be messiah ends up at the right place at the right time, then I understand that would also qualify. 

The Christians came along and took our concept of Messiah and changed it radically to mean that this person would be a deity, literally G-d's offspring. They tried to retroactively change the heritage requirements and how Jews view genealogy, and they added this "second coming" clause to explain away why none of the events that are required have taken place.... yet. 

Oh, and Jesus was an illegitimate bastard (a mamzer) based on the NT depiction of the circumstances of his birth and that kind of matters in Jewish culture.
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#48

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
Quote: Jesus was Jewish, and therefore he did fulfill that requirement. 

So was Moe Howard of The Three Stooges.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#49

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
(04-12-2024, 03:29 AM)Aliza Wrote: The Christians came along and took our concept of Messiah and changed it radically to mean that this person would be a deity, literally G-d's offspring. They tried to retroactively change the heritage requirements and how Jews view genealogy, and they added this "second coming" clause to explain away why none of the events that are required have taken place.... yet. 

So one magic story got plagiarized to found another. This is not a new thing. Gilgamesh and Noah.

All religions seem to borrow regionally from others. They all strike this nonbeliever as pretty syncretic.
On hiatus.
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#50

Three Biggest Objections To The Christian God.
"He must be a direct male descendant of King David"

This fixation on male ancestry as if it carries any meaning is misguided.  I assume it's based on genetic retention of crucial qualities.

But it fails to reckon with why sexual reproduction emerged as the dominant form of procreation:  it scrambles genes so that parasites and pathogens are more easily defeated.  Successive generations resemble their distant forebears less and less with each generation.

Believing that having King David as a direct line ancestor 30 generations ago makes you possess all the desirable qualities of the original is more or less the same reasoning that homeopathy employs - the greater the dilution the more pronounced the effect.  It's hogwash.
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