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Is Prayer Ethical?
#51

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 02:14 PM)Cavebear Wrote: I suppose that is "Captain Obvious".  

But I'm not sure you actually agree with me, since you disagreed previously.  

I keep forgetting you have the English comprehension of your average garden snail. I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the benefit of idiots, and I will not make an exception for you. Scroll up and reread, as slowly as needed. Maybe one day you'll understand my stance ... but I won't hold my breath.
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#52

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 06:36 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(03-29-2024, 01:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Go back to my initial disagreement:


What I was, and am, saying is that there's nuance you failed to mention.  I wasn't "disagreeing" with you so much as I was filling in the large gaps you were leaving.

This isn't an argument. You won't get anything for "winning". You don't have to be a putz. That you choose to says more about you than anyone else.

Thank you for the reply.  Indeed, this isn't actually an argument.  I'm not here to "win" anything.  I discuss science/evolution/religion/politics sometimes and I provide legitimate sources for most statements.  OK, sometimes not.  I don't think I have to source F=MA, for example.  There are some things I am sufficiently familiar with to just state.

Color perception is one of those I didn't think needed to be sourced.  Light carries no actual color itself; it is just frequencies.  It is just how we interpret light frequencies in the limited way our eyes can detect.  The idea of objects having inherent color went out when scientists realized that the color of objects is only that of the light frequencies they don't absorb.

"Color is a ubiquitous feature of our psychological experience. The human visual system constructs a perceptual experience of color from wavelengths of light reflected or emitted from the objects and surfaces around us"  HERE

Further, from the same site:  "Color vision is the basic sensory process that underpins color perception and cognition. It is defined as the ability to discriminate the wavelengths of light reflected from surfaces on the basis of hue".  Hue is not important to this discussion, but I wanted to include the full quote.

So  "color" is only what our brains interpret from the light frequencies objects do not absorb and are reflected back to us (and at a slightly lower frequency).

"Color" is just how we internally, and only in our minds interpret some frequencies of light.

Is this enough to help you understand what I've been trying to say?

I look forward to any questions and replies from you or anyone.

Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?
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#53

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 02:57 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 02:14 PM)Cavebear Wrote: I suppose that is "Captain Obvious".  

But I'm not sure you actually agree with me, since you disagreed previously.  

I keep forgetting you have the English comprehension of your average garden snail. I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the benefit of idiots, and I will not make an exception for you. Scroll up and reread, as slowly as needed. Maybe one day you'll understand my stance ... but I won't hold my breath.

OK, that is about it! I have tried being polite, I have tried being civil but assertive, I have responded to your questions and posts with facts and links. I write carefully and I edit my words so as to avoid any confusion. I am scientifically knowledgeable in general.

But "I keep forgetting you have the English comprehension of your average garden snail" goes beyond general discussion into direct insult. That is not appropriate under any circumstances. Saying "repeating myself for the benefit of idiots" is perhaps worse. I am no idiot.

I think what you are doing is called "projection". Projection is calling people what you are yourself to try to deflect one's own faults.

And what you can't stand is competition of ideas. Anyone who disagrees with you is "an idiot". And you like to say "read above" when actually those posts were either refuted or not applicable.

The best few months on this forum were when you were absent (for very good reasons, I agree). I can't make you a better person. But I can object to your insulting and controlling ways. You want anyone who stands up to you to leave. Well, Buddy-Boy, I ain't leaving.

I once PM'd Dom about how to deal with you. Speaking generally, she replied "everyone gets "The Thump Treatment" sometimes (meaning asshole responses from you).

I respectfully request you take your meds and calm down a bit. Because I'm not leaving, you JERK.

Consider this a legitimate reply to your Oh My God I'm Thump and can say whatever I want crap.
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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#54

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 03:09 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 06:36 AM)Cavebear Wrote: Thank you for the reply.  Indeed, this isn't actually an argument.  I'm not here to "win" anything.  I discuss science/evolution/religion/politics sometimes and I provide legitimate sources for most statements.  OK, sometimes not.  I don't think I have to source F=MA, for example.  There are some things I am sufficiently familiar with to just state.

Color perception is one of those I didn't think needed to be sourced.  Light carries no actual color itself; it is just frequencies.  It is just how we interpret light frequencies in the limited way our eyes can detect.  The idea of objects having inherent color went out when scientists realized that the color of objects is only that of the light frequencies they don't absorb.

"Color is a ubiquitous feature of our psychological experience. The human visual system constructs a perceptual experience of color from wavelengths of light reflected or emitted from the objects and surfaces around us"  HERE

Further, from the same site:  "Color vision is the basic sensory process that underpins color perception and cognition. It is defined as the ability to discriminate the wavelengths of light reflected from surfaces on the basis of hue".  Hue is not important to this discussion, but I wanted to include the full quote.

So  "color" is only what our brains interpret from the light frequencies objects do not absorb and are reflected back to us (and at a slightly lower frequency).

"Color" is just how we internally, and only in our minds interpret some frequencies of light.

Is this enough to help you understand what I've been trying to say?

I look forward to any questions and replies from you or anyone.

Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?

It was originally a simple side-observation about what "color" actually is at first. Then I discovered that most people don't actually understand how we perceive the physical world. Then it became "isn't this obvious"? I'm still not quite sure why there is misunderstanding of how our brain interprets "inputs".
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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#55

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 04:18 PM)Cavebear Wrote: I respectfully request you take your meds and calm down a bit.  Because I'm not leaving, you JERK.

1) My albuterol doesn't affect my moods, assmunch. It's for my lungs.

2) I don't care enough about you to care whether you post here or elsewhere.

(04-02-2024, 04:18 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Consider this a legitimate reply to your Oh My God I'm Thump and can say whatever I want crap.

Well, that's an interesting interpretation ... once again showing your utter inability to grasp simple, plain English. But quite frankly, I'll say whatever I goddamned well please, within the rules here. If you don't like it, tough shit.
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#56

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 03:09 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?

He seems to think he's the first person to see the difference between qualia and properties.
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#57

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 04:47 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 04:18 PM)Cavebear Wrote: I respectfully request you take your meds and calm down a bit.  Because I'm not leaving, you JERK.

1) My albuterol doesn't affect my moods, assmunch. It's for my lungs.

2) I don't care enough about you to care whether you post here or elsewhere.

(04-02-2024, 04:18 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Consider this a legitimate reply to your Oh My God I'm Thump and can say whatever I want crap.

Well, that's an interesting interpretation ... once again showing your utter inability to grasp simple, plain English. But quite frankly, I'll say whatever I goddamned well please, within the rules here. If you don't like it, tough shit.

Yes you will. It is part of your increasingly annoying persona. And I will continue to provide factual information in spite of that.. That maybe you (apparently) don't understand.

I respect almost everyone here. But you are pushing my tolerance.
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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#58

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 05:07 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 04:47 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: 1) My albuterol doesn't affect my moods, assmunch. It's for my lungs.

2) I don't care enough about you to care whether you post here or elsewhere.


Well, that's an interesting interpretation ... once again showing your utter inability to grasp simple, plain English. But quite frankly, I'll say whatever I goddamned well please, within the rules here. If you don't like it, tough shit.

Yes you will.  It is part of your increasingly annoying persona.  And I will continue to provide factual information in spite of that..  That maybe you (apparently) don't understand.

I respect almost everyone here.  But you are pushing my tolerance.

This is a you problem. You have delusional ideas about yourself and react petulantly whenever anybody, like Thump, brings up the reality.

Go fuck yourself you ignorant and annoying twat.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#59

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 04:43 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 03:09 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?

It was originally a simple side-observation about what "color" actually is at first.  Then I discovered that most people don't actually understand how we perceive the physical world.  Then it became "isn't this obvious"?  I'm still not quite sure why there is misunderstanding of how our brain interprets "inputs".

Cavebear, this is the sort of bollocks that's kept philosophers ungainfully occupied for thousands of years. Ask *them*.

No! Not here!

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussio...-qualia/p8

https://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/...5&start=60

https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?t=29286

https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/que...ged/qualia

https://discourse.numenta.org/t/qualia-d...ified/8723

https://pages.uoregon.edu/donovan/debate...debate.pdf

https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/que...b=Frequent

https://iep.utm.edu/qualia/

Then again; don't bother.
Their are hundreds of forums just like those and the bottom line is... They don't know, a few of them even have the temerity to ask if if qualia even exists.
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#60

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 05:07 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Yes you will.  It is part of your increasingly annoying persona.  And I will continue to provide factual information in spite of that..  That maybe you (apparently) don't understand.

I respect almost everyone here.  But you are pushing my tolerance.

You think I give two shits rubbed together about earning your respect? I have nothing but contempt for you, and that should be obvious even to you. It follows that I'm uninterested in your opinion of me.
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#61

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 04:54 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 03:09 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?

He seems to think he's the first person to see the difference between qualia and properties.

Don't you reply to my posts while I'm on your fucking ignore list!
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#62

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:03 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 04:54 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: He seems to think he's the first person to see the difference between qualia and properties.

Don't you reply to my posts while I'm on your fucking ignore list!

SteveII does that.  Did it to me on 3 occasions.  Very childish.

I just now noticed that now Thump has me on ignore.  I have no idea why, or when he did that.

Being on ignore imposes no disadvantages, but does amount to a loss for the one doing the ignoring.  It's very much a cut off one's nose to spite one's own face maneuver.

But it IS more than rude to put someone on ignore and then respond to their posts.  Lots of cowardice to do that.
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#63

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:03 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 04:54 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: He seems to think he's the first person to see the difference between qualia and properties.

Don't you reply to my posts while I'm on your fucking ignore list!

You're not on my ignore list, Inky.
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#64

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:16 PM)airportkid Wrote: I just now noticed that now Thump has me on ignore.  I have no idea why, or when he did that.

[...]

But it IS more than rude to put someone on ignore and then respond to their posts.  Lots of cowardice to do that.

I don't have either of you on my ignore list. If I want to ignore someone, I typically simply scroll past their shit, unless they're harassing me or whatnot.

[Image: lCOGCA3.png]
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#65

Is Prayer Ethical?
It looks like the lack of a PM button on posts is not the most reliable way of telling if you're on someone's ignore list. I guess setting whether you can send/receive PMs or emails is something you can do separately from the ignore function.
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#66

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:53 PM)emjay Wrote: It looks like the lack of a PM button on posts is not the most reliable way of telling if you're on someone's ignore list. I guess setting whether you can send/receive PMs or emails is something you can do separately from the ignore function.

Right. It's in the "Options" settings. I turned them off when I left in August.
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#67

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 05:21 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 05:07 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Yes you will.  It is part of your increasingly annoying persona.  And I will continue to provide factual information in spite of that..  That maybe you (apparently) don't understand.

I respect almost everyone here.  But you are pushing my tolerance.

This is a you problem.  You have delusional ideas about yourself and react petulantly whenever anybody, like Thump, brings up the reality.

Go fuck yourself you ignorant and annoying twat.

The problems that arise when admitting being incorrect is anathema.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#68

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 11:01 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 10:53 PM)emjay Wrote: It looks like the lack of a PM button on posts is not the most reliable way of telling if you're on someone's ignore list. I guess setting whether you can send/receive PMs or emails is something you can do separately from the ignore function.

Right. It's in the "Options" settings. I turned them off when I left in August.

Tbh I think people are getting way too paranoid/butthurt about being on ignore. It's Steve for God's sake... I'd see that as a blessing cos the guy spouts nothing but drivel.
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#69

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:31 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 10:03 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Don't you reply to my posts while I'm on your fucking ignore list!

You're not on my ignore list, Inky.

Opps. I do apologize Thump.
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#70

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:16 PM)airportkid Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 10:03 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Don't you reply to my posts while I'm on your fucking ignore list!

SteveII does that.  Did it to me on 3 occasions.  Very childish.

I just now noticed that now Thump has me on ignore.  I have no idea why, or when he did that.

Being on ignore imposes no disadvantages, but does amount to a loss for the one doing the ignoring.  It's very much a cut off one's nose to spite one's own face maneuver.

But it IS more than rude to put someone on ignore and then respond to their posts.  Lots of cowardice to do that.

Nah, it's sorted. We're all good.
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#71

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 10:41 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I don't have either of you on my ignore list.

Sorry I misread that indication.  Glad I was wrong.
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#72

Is Prayer Ethical?
You guys both make great points in your posts, I'd be a fool to iggy you.
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#73

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-03-2024, 01:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You guys both make great points in your posts, I'd be a fool to iggy you.

?????

[Image: wenn20469841.jpg?w=584]

(can't help myself)
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#74

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 08:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 05:07 PM)Cavebear Wrote: Yes you will.  It is part of your increasingly annoying persona.  And I will continue to provide factual information in spite of that..  That maybe you (apparently) don't understand.

I respect almost everyone here.  But you are pushing my tolerance.

You think I give two shits rubbed together about earning your respect? I have nothing but contempt for you, and that should be obvious even to you. It follows that I'm uninterested in your opinion of me.

Obviously we don't seem to get along. I try a lot, but it doesn't seem to help. I post on factual matters mostly. When someone disagrees factually, I try to provide specific links and sources to support what I post.

It is not my general nature to reflexively insult those who disagree. In response to disagreements, I look for information and better sites to bolster my statements. And sometimes (rather rarely, I will say) I discover I was wrong. And when that happens, I say so publicly. That is proper on a discussion forum.

I regret having blown up at you the other day. Not because I was wrong, but because I could have written the post better. I should have "kept my calm" a bit better. But when a person is insulted time after time (while being accurate), one can just "lose it" sometimes and reply in anger.

Now, having said that, I have a few things to say...

1. You posted above "You think I give two shits rubbed together about earning your respect? I have nothing but contempt for you, and that should be obvious even to you. It follows that I'm uninterested in your opinion of me". I'm sorry you feel that way. And why on Earth would you rub two shits together. Only makes your hands all messy, LOL!

2. I see some aspects of you that I also see in myself. But I try to control them. You might want to try that a bit more often. It takes some effort, but well worth it in the long run. Take a thalmic pause before you lash out, please.

3. I know you have some personal life difficulties, and I sympathize (whether you want we to or not). But most of us do too. I lost my mother, younger sister and a dear cat in 3 months. And I recognize that many other people have worse problems than I do. But it still is hard

3. You don't actually like most people. It is pretty obvious. And you have "anger issues". Well, so do I, but there are some places to let them out and some places not to.

3. It seems to me that you positively enjoy insulting others. And you try to bully others. I don't respond to that very much. You will get a response trying to remind you of that, but not very often.

4. You have insulted me in the past. Most recently, you suggested my English comprehension was that of a garden snail. I took that very personally (as you hoped, I'm sure). Another example of an inaccurate and gratuitous insult. My English is very correct. I self-edit carefully. I forget what the other parts of your insults were as they equally didn't seem to apply to me.

5. This part was going to be a list of your faults. But I decided not to get too far into the weeds. If we sat in the same room face-to-face and compared thoughts about each other it might be interesting. But that is never going to happen. Too bad; it might be informative.

6. So you are back, I am still here, and we are going to have to tolerate each other. I had you on my ignore list for a few hours, but I changed my mind. As utterly annoying as you are to me (and apparently I to you), that isn't the best way to deal with persona-conflicts.

I assume you will post something insulting in reply... Wallbash
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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#75

Is Prayer Ethical?
(04-02-2024, 03:09 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(04-02-2024, 06:36 AM)Cavebear Wrote: Thank you for the reply.  Indeed, this isn't actually an argument.  I'm not here to "win" anything.  I discuss science/evolution/religion/politics sometimes and I provide legitimate sources for most statements.  OK, sometimes not.  I don't think I have to source F=MA, for example.  There are some things I am sufficiently familiar with to just state.

Color perception is one of those I didn't think needed to be sourced.  Light carries no actual color itself; it is just frequencies.  It is just how we interpret light frequencies in the limited way our eyes can detect.  The idea of objects having inherent color went out when scientists realized that the color of objects is only that of the light frequencies they don't absorb.

"Color is a ubiquitous feature of our psychological experience. The human visual system constructs a perceptual experience of color from wavelengths of light reflected or emitted from the objects and surfaces around us"  HERE

Further, from the same site:  "Color vision is the basic sensory process that underpins color perception and cognition. It is defined as the ability to discriminate the wavelengths of light reflected from surfaces on the basis of hue".  Hue is not important to this discussion, but I wanted to include the full quote.

So  "color" is only what our brains interpret from the light frequencies objects do not absorb and are reflected back to us (and at a slightly lower frequency).

"Color" is just how we internally, and only in our minds interpret some frequencies of light.

Is this enough to help you understand what I've been trying to say?

I look forward to any questions and replies from you or anyone.

Cavebear, where the fuck are you going with this?

Into a simple matter of science and our brain's perception of input information. Nothing more.
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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