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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-05-2024, 01:45 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-05-2024, 10:43 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: He did, and you are now blatantly lying.

He said, in the Bible, how to enslave Jews and non-jews*, how and from whom to buy and sell your slaves, and how to pass them on to your children. He also said how to trick fellow jews into permanent slavery. He also said that femals slaves are worth less than male ones. He also said you can beat them up if they dont die within a day or two.

What your god never said: That slavery is bad.

Read your holy book.


*there were different rules for each of em


Exodus 21:16

"And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

So we know from the very beginning God did not approve of slavery. 
Oh, wow, god does not like you stealing my slaves.
Try again....Stick to Exodus 21!

Well, since you quoted Exodus 21: 16...we all know CONTEXT matter in the Bible.
Please read Exodus 21:1-11 for us, will ya? Particularly Verse 6, please.
Please also tell us what Exodus 21:20-21 say, ACTUALLY says.
Please also read Leviticus 25:44-46.
Please tell us what it SAYS there, not what you THINK it says, not what you WANT it to say, but WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS.
R.I.P. Hannes
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 06:27 AM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-06-2024, 06:01 AM)Cavebear Wrote: So, why is Jubluta less real to than your chosen deity.  Or El, Yahwe, Allah, Odin, Zeus, or Jupiter etc?  And do you think those other deities exist or ever existed?

Well, as I have explained in some other posts somewhere, I have learned that I'm a sinner.

The old Charlie was not a nice guy, I didn't really like that guy, no need for details. 

The new Charlie I like much better, he's controlled and refrains from violence unlike the old Charlie.

What brought that change about was realizing I had some problems that needed fixing.

When I finally got serious about all of this, I seen that I'm a sinner in need of a Saviour. 

My God the God of the Bible showed me that and I took Him at His Word that He would change me.

For over 30 years now I have remained that new Charlie, growing closer and closer to the One who changed me.

He has made many promises to me since that changed life, and I intend to see it through to the end.

I didn't receive any of this help from any other God and have no proof there is any other God who wants to help me.

Charlie, if you think your life is better these years, good. I think maybe it is for the wrong reasons, but you have a right to be superstitious if it makes your life happier, I suppose. Just don't keep pushing your thoughts on others. We aren't here to proselytize YOU. You are here preaching at US.

I'm not going to change my mind no matter what you say about your beliefs because there are no facts involved in anything you say. So, you know, just accept that.

You said you "have no proof there is any other God who wants to help me. Well, I just have one less God than you do... And I am just as happy with my life as you seem to be with yours. The difference is that when we both eventually die, neither of us is going to suddenly wake up to a magical "afterlife".

The comforting thing for you is that you will die expecting something wonderful that will never happen and you won't know that it didn't happen after you die.
A bully hides his fears with fake bravado. That is the opposite of self-assertiveness.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
So much for all of that "he without sin" bullshit, amiright....? Who gives a fuck what jesus said? Not Charlie.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 06:27 AM)Charlie24 Wrote: Well, as I have explained in some other posts somewhere, I have learned that I'm a sinner.

The old Charlie was not a nice guy, I didn't really like that guy, no need for details. 

The new Charlie I like much better, he's controlled and refrains from violence unlike the old Charlie.

What brought that change about was realizing I had some problems that needed fixing.

When I finally got serious about all of this, I seen that I'm a sinner in need of a Saviour. 

My God the God of the Bible showed me that and I took Him at His Word that He would change me.

For over 30 years now I have remained that new Charlie, growing closer and closer to the One who changed me.

He has made many promises to me since that changed life, and I intend to see it through to the end.

I didn't receive any of this help from any other God and have no proof there is any other God who wants to help me.

You no doubt take this as your own personal evidence that the God of the Christians exists.  However, I would like to point out two problems I see with this story.

First, when we are young and before our brains are fully mature, we are all subject to impulsive, instinct- and emotion-driven behaviors which we regret later in life. We only slowly learn how to deal with them.  So there is no need to consider ourselves sinners at heart if there are much simpler explanations.

Second, you no doubt benefited from your social integration into the Christian community.  I would assume such support also helped you set aside your earlier habits.

So saying you were personally helped by God seems rather over-dramatic and self-serving to me.

These perspectives would also explain: a) why people benefit in similar ways by integration into other social communities, including completely different religions, and b) why your magic words (scriptural passages) don't affect other people (us) in the ways you seem to imagine they should.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 04:01 AM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-06-2024, 03:49 AM)possibletarian Wrote: Why though? isn't this well in the remit of your gods commands, let's say the man was homosexual and he killed him, would that be wrong?

It's still cold blooded murder no matter who it was.

God hates the sin not the person.

He loved all men/women enough to send His Son to die on the Cross for us to be set free from our sins.

God is not the monster you think He is.

I'm like Cave on this, I don't believe there is a god to call a 'monster'.. so no i don't believe yours or any other god is a monster.

Was it cold blooded murder in the old testament too ?
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 01:36 PM)possibletarian Wrote:
(03-06-2024, 04:01 AM)Charlie24 Wrote: It's still cold blooded murder no matter who it was.

God hates the sin not the person.

He loved all men/women enough to send His Son to die on the Cross for us to be set free from our sins.

God is not the monster you think He is.

I'm like Cave on this, I don't believe there is a god to call a 'monster'.. so no i don't believe yours or any other god is a monster.

Was it cold blooded murder in the old testament too ?

Of course I'm wasting my time, but I will explain.

There are many, I'm talking many cases of cold blooded murder in the Old Testament. They were acts of greed, power, jealousy, you name it, but they were all acts of sin, examples of wrong.

I have explained several times how God's killings are justified in His Devine Decree.

God killed when anything stood in the way of His plan of salvation for man. He didn't just kill them without warning, they knew it was coming if they persisted in what they we doing against Israel.

Israel had to succeed as a nation for the Christ to be born and deliver those who would believe from their sins. Whatever stood in the way of that had warning.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Quote:I have explained several times how God's killings are justified in His Devine Decree.


And everytime you do you sound more ridiculous than the time before.  When will you understand that your pious prattle means absolutely nothing here?

Are you really that dense?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 10:37 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-06-2024, 01:36 PM)possibletarian Wrote: I'm like Cave on this, I don't believe there is a god to call a 'monster'.. so no i don't believe yours or any other god is a monster.

Was it cold blooded murder in the old testament too ?

Of course I'm wasting my time, but I will explain.

There are many, I'm talking many cases of cold blooded murder in the Old Testament. They were acts of greed, power, jealousy, you name it, but they were all acts of sin, examples of wrong.

I have explained several times how God's killings are justified in His Devine Decree.

God killed when anything stood in the way of His plan of salvation for man. He didn't just kill them without warning, they knew it was coming if they persisted in what they we doing against Israel.

Israel had to succeed as a nation for the Christ to be born and deliver those who would believe from their sins. Whatever stood in the way of that had warning.

And again, I ask you to answer a very simple question, was it or was it not cold-blooded murder (your words) to stone a homosexual in the Old Testament?
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-06-2024, 11:04 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I have explained several times how God's killings are justified in His Devine Decree.


And everytime you do you sound more ridiculous than the time before.  When will you understand that your pious prattle means absolutely nothing here?

Are you really that dense?

It's especially funny when they quote from the King James text too, they think somehow, it's more powerful or authoritative.

And when they capitalize or bold it... well
Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 12:15 AM)possibletarian Wrote:
(03-06-2024, 11:04 PM)Minimalist Wrote: And everytime you do you sound more ridiculous than the time before.  When will you understand that your pious prattle means absolutely nothing here?

Are you really that dense?

It's especially funny when they quote from the King James text too, they think somehow, it's more powerful or authoritative.

And when they capitalize or bold it... well

I suppose you missed my post on why I use the KJV. So many posts I'll never find it, but here's the short version.

There are many "key words" in the KJV that many of use choose to go to the Greek for ourselves and fit the definition into the context. 

If you use any other version those key words are already interpreted for you, but by who, what do they believe, have they twisted that definition to their own agenda? Sadly sometimes that is the case.

So many of us use only the KJV and take the time with the Greek definitions to understand exactly what is being said.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Oh, my....poor Charlie will lose his shit over this.   Of course, the piss poor translation of the KJV are well known to scholars.

https://superiorword.org/errors-in-the-k...s-version/


Quote:This is a list of translational errors that are found in the King James Version (KJV), a mediocre, even very sloppy, translation of Scripture, certainly not the only inspired translation of Scripture.

 
Why would anyone bother with compiling such a list? The reason is that adherents to King James Onlyism have come to substitute what the Bible says with the King James Bible itself. The book becomes the object of their idolatry. This may sound laughable, but there is an entire cult built around the King James Version of the Bible. Other cults do the same with other texts, such as the Latin Vulgate or the Greek Septuagint.



This fucker is crazy too  but at least he knows that the KJV is a pile of shit.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 01:10 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Oh, my....poor Charlie will lose his shit over this.   Of course, the piss poor translation of the KJV are well known to scholars.

https://superiorword.org/errors-in-the-k...s-version/


Quote:This is a list of translational errors that are found in the King James Version (KJV), a mediocre, even very sloppy, translation of Scripture, certainly not the only inspired translation of Scripture.

 
Why would anyone bother with compiling such a list? The reason is that adherents to King James Onlyism have come to substitute what the Bible says with the King James Bible itself. The book becomes the object of their idolatry. This may sound laughable, but there is an entire cult built around the King James Version of the Bible. Other cults do the same with other texts, such as the Latin Vulgate or the Greek Septuagint.



This fucker is crazy too  but at least he knows that the KJV is a pile of shit.

I would really like to get on that site to see what they are saying. I'm sure I will have a response.

But I can't, it says, this site can't be reached or something like that.

Anyone else having this problem?
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 01:21 AM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-07-2024, 01:10 AM)Minimalist Wrote: https://superiorword.org/errors-in-the-k...s-version/

I would really like to get on that site to see what they are saying. I'm sure I will have a response.

But I can't, it says, this site can't be reached or something like that.

Anyone else having this problem?
Nope. Comes right up.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Me, too.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 01:21 AM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-07-2024, 01:10 AM)Minimalist Wrote: Oh, my....poor Charlie will lose his shit over this.   Of course, the piss poor translation of the KJV are well known to scholars.

https://superiorword.org/errors-in-the-k...s-version/





This fucker is crazy too  but at least he knows that the KJV is a pile of shit.

I would really like to get on that site to see what they are saying. I'm sure I will have a response.

But I can't, it says, this site can't be reached or something like that.

Anyone else having this problem?



Hey....I bet the devil is fucking with you, huh?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Hey Charlie,

have you read Exodus 21, i mean Exodus 21 completely now?
R.I.P. Hannes
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Charlie has been warned twice now about proselytising and one way or another it will stop.

I also want people to stop with the vitriol and personal attacks. They do not aid the discussion.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 01:02 PM)Mathilda Wrote: Charlie has been warned twice now about proselytising and one way or another it will stop.

I also want people to stop with the vitriol and personal attacks. They do not aid the discussion.

There is no discussion going on here.  Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. 
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Quote:From this CNN article about atheism today:

In a 2019 Pew survey, 44% of US residents said belief in God was necessary to be moral and have good values — in other countries, that share is much higher.

Being an atheist, I consider my moral perspectives better-informed than those packaged into religious teachings. I think religious people harm others a lot more than they realize. I was harmed by my religious upbringing, which didn't help me deal with the problems in my life very well. They made everything more confused and difficult.

The downside of my present perspectives is that I dislike people more than I did. I now consider many people to be dishonest, mainly because of their nutty religious and political beliefs.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-05-2024, 05:11 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-05-2024, 04:54 PM)Dānu Wrote: Why does that not surprise me.

I was born and raised in Wilmington, NC, just as my Dad and all my Grandpa's before him.

It was a confederate state, and I don't agree with what they fought for.

If I had been around leading up to the Civil War I'm sure I could have been easily sucked into the beliefs of that time.

Hind sight is 20/20 and we can look back see their mistakes.

But I'm still proud of my Grandpa who took a stand to the death in what he believed.

(Bold mine)

Wait, what? Okay, I agree that had you been alive in the time of the civil war, and you were raised in Wilmington, NC, you'd probably have supported the southern side of the civil war like the rest of your countrymen. 

I feel that people in history should be judged according to the time and setting in which they lived. We don't have to trash your ancestors for supporting a cause that we now find abhorrent. But let's be straight and say that your grandparents were wrong.

They supported something that didn't stand the test of time, and we're glad that it wasn't a war they won. We need not declare how "proud" we are of them for taking a stand for what they believed in, because what they believed turned out to be trash. Can't we just say that our ancestors are to be respected because they did the best they could with the information they had, but that in the end, they were wrong?

What if the entire civil war was gog vs. magog and the southerns were satan worshippers and the northerners were bible believing Christians. Would you still honor your ancestors fierce commitment to their beliefs? Would you still declare your respect and pride for their commitment to satan?

And if the answer is no, then why is chattel slavery acceptable and satan worshipping is not?
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-10-2024, 02:40 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(03-05-2024, 05:11 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: I was born and raised in Wilmington, NC, just as my Dad and all my Grandpa's before him.

It was a confederate state, and I don't agree with what they fought for.

If I had been around leading up to the Civil War I'm sure I could have been easily sucked into the beliefs of that time.

Hind sight is 20/20 and we can look back see their mistakes.

But I'm still proud of my Grandpa who took a stand to the death in what he believed.

(Bold mine)

Wait, what? Okay, I agree that had you been alive in the time of the civil war, and you were raised in Wilmington, NC, you'd probably have supported the southern side of the civil war like the rest of your countrymen. 

I feel that people in history should be judged according to the time and setting in which they lived. We don't have to trash your ancestors for supporting a cause that we now find abhorrent. But let's be straight and say that your grandparents were wrong.

They supported something that didn't stand the test of time, and we're glad that it wasn't a war they won. We need not declare how "proud" we are of them for taking a stand for what they believed in, because what they believed turned out to be trash. Can't we just say that our ancestors are to be respected because they did the best they could with the information they had, but that in the end, they were wrong?

What if the entire civil war was gog vs. magog and the southerns were satan worshippers and the northerners were bible believing Christians. Would you still honor your ancestors fierce commitment to their beliefs? Would you still declare your respect and pride for their commitment to satan?

And if the answer is no, then why is chattel slavery acceptable and satan worshipping is not?

Sometimes answers need to be complicated, nuanced and taking various things into consideration. This is not such time - he is troll and trash, simple as that.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.


Socrates.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-05-2024, 05:31 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(03-05-2024, 05:22 PM)airportkid Wrote: There's the bane of humankind:  will die trying to preserve a belief rather than let a belief die, even in the face of truth.

That is coming from someone who didn't have to face that issue in real time.

Some one could have said the same of you had you been faced with the same.

But let me guess, if you had been from the south with all of it's tradition and peer pressure to fight for your way of life, you most certainly would have made the right choice.
(my bold)

Many did make the choice to not fight for slavery. That you seem to be admitting you would have fought for it says far more about you than it says of anyone claiming they wouldn't.
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-05-2024, 11:14 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: It's my opinion having served in the military (Airborne Army), refusing to stand up for your country risking life and limb should be a capitol crime. If you are an able bodied man in that age group as required by the military.

Have you been fitted for your brown shirt and jackboots yet? [Image: Eye-Roll.gif]
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(03-07-2024, 02:25 AM)pattylt Wrote: Me, too.

Same here. It must be a divine mystery keeping chuckles from reading that site.  Big Grin
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