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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
#76

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 02:47 PM)airportkid Wrote: All so-called "divine" decrees are either spoken or written by people.  Nothing distinguishes them from anything else spoken or written by people.  They are therefore just as much mere opinion as any other opinion.  And, like many opinions, unaccompanied by corroborating evidence, often in conflict with established evidence, are more annoying noise than constructive direction.

The word "or" in the OP title is incorrect, and should instead be the word "is".

You have this view because you cannot see the Holy Bible (the Word of God) for what it truly is.

If there is a God, then He has created everything. He has given man domain over His creation to take care of it.

He has not left us in the dark, He has given us instruction in everything we need to know, to not only survive in this world, but also for us know Him in the way He wants us to know Him.

This instruction comes from God Himself. If He can create everything surly He has the ability to give us His instruction in tact, and in the exact words He wants us to have. This is found in the Holy Bible.

God chose Holy men who were devoted to Him to write these instructions. He has preserved these writings for us in tact for thousands of years. Do you really believe that God does not have the ability to preserve His own instructions for man He has created?

The Bible is about 1/3 history, 1/3 instruction, and 1/3 prophecy. In this history, instruction, and prophecy, He has given us everything we need to know in this life. The unknown will be made known at the the time of the resurrection when the believing mortal man is made immortal.

There are many who can't understand this, they have no way of understanding it. They are totally disconnected from God in the state of fallen man in his sin.

But God, through His Gospel can open the eyes of fallen man. That is what He does, bringing man out of darkness into His marvelous light.
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#77

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
It doesn't look great for god if everything he thought we needed to know in this life is in magic book. When you talk about god opening our eyes through the gospel, do you mean opening our eyes to the moral view you've been describing? That if we found god we'd become moral relativists or moral subjectivists?
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#78

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 02:47 PM)airportkid Wrote: All so-called "divine" decrees are either spoken or written by people.  Nothing distinguishes them from anything else spoken or written by people.  They are therefore just as much mere opinion as any other opinion.  And, like many opinions, unaccompanied by corroborating evidence, often in conflict with established evidence, are more annoying noise than constructive direction.

The word "or" in the OP title is incorrect, and should instead be the word "is".

I think that this is a case of psychological or should I say philosophical projection. The theist system of moral based on Divine Command theory is basically pure opinion and gut feeling. The priesthood had a gut feeling that X was wrong thus God whispered into their ears that X was wrong and thus it must be obeyed. Morality is thus a pure question of opinion and tradition and not based on well detailed moral principles and arguments where someone can easily follow the reasoning pattern, but from rules from which a believer must "induce" the reasoning and principle which of course leads to a thousand theological disagreement and even contradictions since the rules never reflect the opinion of single priest, but many at different point and time in history and under different circumstances. The religious fanatics with little philosophical and theological education, like @Charlie24 for example, are thus left with an incapacity to grasp morality or philosophy beyond the tenets of their religion to which they have a fanatical devotion and simply assume that all other group of people rely on the process of opinion and tradition to arrive at any sort of moral system and lack the false confidence provided by the belief that having the mightiest being imaginable on their side makes them right. 

To them, the idea of moral principles, behaviors, rules and laws are systems designed to tackle tangible problems and challenges and that they can be analyzed, developed and argued using reason, data, logic as well as values and preferences is completely alien. Since their moral system is basically pure opinion propped up by the belief that might makes right and thus their opinion has more value then all others, all other moral systems is also pure opinion but can't be propped up because they are convinced that they and they alone have might on their side.

The mind of fanatics is like a fortress. It's walls are ignorance and it's garrison is vanity and conceit. Attack the walls of ignorance an the vanity and conceit will prevent knowledge from taking hold; attack the garrison of vanity and conceit and the walls of ignorance will prevent the appeals to virtue and empathy to reach it.
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#79

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 03:22 PM)Rhythmcs Wrote: It doesn't look great for god if everything he thought we needed to know in this life is in magic book.  When you talk about god opening our eyes through the gospel, do you mean opening our eyes to the moral view you've been describing?  That if we found god we'd become moral relativists or moral subjectivists?

Ahhh, you give yourself away, the rejection of God and His authority over man is oozing from your post.

You are your own God, you make all your decisions, no need for this God thing to tell you what to do.

You despise the though of Him giving you instruction, you say in your heart, I will control my own destiny.

That's fine, God will honor your choice and even give you as you wish.

He's not hard to get along with, if you don't want Him, then He has created a special place for you out of His presence for eternity.
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#80

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
So, you've got nothing. As I thought. Just another blowhard bag of wind.

Can you prove that the creator is your specific godiboi and not Zeus, Vishnu, Ra, Anubis, Enki, Huitzilopochtli, Hunab-Ku? Or any of the other thousands of godibois that have been concocted by foolish little arrogant creatures?

How about this one Mr. Magoo, if that very first commandment forbids the worship of any other godibois, why are there so many? So many that predate your specific godiboi? It's almost as if none of them exist.

And remember, no using that stupid book of yours.
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#81

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
I leave the toilet seat up too.

I'm not interested in your beliefs about god or me. I'm interested in your beliefs about morality. Do you genuinely believe that moral relativism or subjectivism is true, and..if so, what is the moral difference between a divine subjectivism and a mundane subjectivism? How...from a subjectivists standpoint.... are we to assert one over another?
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#82

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 03:35 PM)no one Wrote: So, you've got nothing. As I thought. Just another blowhard bag of wind.

Can you prove that the creator is your specific godiboi and not Zeus, Vishnu, Ra, Anubis, Enki, Huitzilopochtli, Hunab-Ku? Or any of the other thousands of godibois that have been concocted by foolish little arrogant creatures?

How about this one Mr. Magoo, if that very first commandment forbids the worship of any other godibois, why are there so many? So many that predate your specific godiboi? It's almost as if none of them exist.

And remember, no using that stupid book of yours.

That stupid Book is all I have. In it God speaks to my heart reminding me of the promises He made to me.

When the things in this life wear me down, I go to Him in His Word, He reminds me that I'm a stranger in this world, this is not my home. I will not be accepted here, I will be persecuted and hated, but he tells me I am following in the footsteps of my Christ who was hated and rejected before me.

He tells me, "eyes have not seen nor ears heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things that God has prepared for them that love Him." He tells me not worry, He will sustain me in all things. Do the work I have given you and the gates of heaven will praise you when the time of entrance comes. I will hear the words as promised, "well done thou good and faithful servant, enter thou into my rest, you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things."
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#83

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
How do you know it's not any of those other godibois?

If the stupid book is all you have, that's not saying much for the Almighty, is it?

And, you didn't actually answer the question.
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#84

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:34 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 08:27 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: You didnt read MY last post. It was about choosing beliefs. You admittedly do, i dont.
Who asked for a physical god btw?

So you are saying that you have not chosen to deny God? You have not chosen to accept the theory of evolution as introduced by the scientific world?

Sounds to me that you are not being honest with ol' Charlie.
Stop projecting.
Which part of my last post(s) did you not understand? The part where i said i dont voluntarily choose what i believe, because i have standards. Why is it that you arent able to provide me your standard? Why is it that you cant tell me who was asking you for a physical god?

Its because ol´Charlie is a dishonest fuck, who likes to project his dishonesty onto others and keeps straw men up. What a prime example of christian virtues of not-lying.
What again happens to all liers and all other transgressors of gods laws? Is there anything anyone could not be forgiven for in your gods oh-so-superior "system" of judgement? If you are honest, you will admit that there is only one unforgivable sin. Lets see if you are able to be honest for a change.
R.I.P. Hannes
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#85

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:44 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 08:31 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: I dont choose my beliefs, i feel compelled to accept some propositions and others not, because i have standards. What is your standard for accepting a belief?

Oh, and dont threaten me, ok? It just shows that your position holds not merit.at.all.

I'm not threatening you, I have no power over your soul to cast you into Hell or to accept you into heaven.
You were and you know it. Stop lying. Your quote, where you blamed me, the victim of your gods cruelty, for what he is going to do to me, is here for all to see.

(02-21-2024, 12:44 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: Only God can do that! I'm just telling you what He has said in that Book that you ignore.
Stop lying. I dont ignore it.
...and please stop ignoring the Quran, will you?!

(02-21-2024, 12:44 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: My standard of belief comes from within myself by hearing the Word of God.
You are hearing voices? Audible voices? What does it sound like? Male, female? If you can "hear the word of god", why do you need to read the Bible? How do you know its the word of god anyway?

(02-21-2024, 12:44 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: This physical body I have is just the shell, the covering of the real Charlie.

In my body is a spirit and a soul that God has created. This is the real me that God relates to, not my physical body.
Did i ask you for a sermon?
R.I.P. Hannes
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#86

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Honesty, integrity, and virtue are not principles the charlie's of the world stand upon.
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#87

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 03:55 PM)no one Wrote: How do you know it's not any of those other godibois?

If the stupid book is all you have, that's not saying much for the Almighty, is it?

And, you didn't actually answer the question.

I'm pretty sure that no answer I could give will be acceptable for you.

There is only one God, He Himself has said, "There is no other God besides me, I know not of any."

I know He is the only true God because He addresses my sin that He has me aware of.

No other religion has loved me enough that He came and died for my sins, in my place, so I can have relationship with Him free of my sin and justified in His sight.
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#88

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:51 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 08:35 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: #1 You only dont steal, lie, kill and do whatever you want because god tells you so? Is that what you are saying? Then be all means, keep your silly religious belief, so we can aviod you doing harm to society.
#2 You can steal, lie, kill and do whatever you want , and still be "forgiven" by god on judgement day, dontcha? Stop pretending your gods system is more just than any human system. It isnt. Its even worse. You can be the worst human ever, and be forgiven.
Show ContentSpoiler:
Stop weaseling around and answer my question: Is the only reason you arent raping and pillaging, because your god told you so? If you would be doing all those things, can your god forgive you? Why are you also lying about me, insinuating i would do all these things because i dont believe in your god.
R.I.P. Hannes
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#89

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 01:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 01:39 PM)no one Wrote: I've asked it several times. How do you keep "missing" it?

Funny how you don't miss my asking why you are ignoring the question though.

What, OUTSIDE of your stupid book proves that jebus died for my "sins"?

Perhaps you need glasses.

Maybe I do need glasses, or at least work on my attention to detail.

This is the first time I have seen this question. The answer...

You are looking in the wrong places for God, and it is for sure if you keep on this path you will never find Him.

Obviously, not that you really care whether you find Him or not.

All who search for God in the physical realm will never find Him, period!

I have explained how to reach God many times in my posts here.

Not that you care, or even consider what I say, but God can only be found in the spiritual realm.

Why the fuck should I look for the monster that forced me into existence in the shit hole it invented?
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#90

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 03:57 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 12:34 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: So you are saying that you have not chosen to deny God? You have not chosen to accept the theory of evolution as introduced by the scientific world?

Sounds to me that you are not being honest with ol' Charlie.
Stop projecting.
Which part of my last post(s) did you not understand? The part where i said i dont voluntarily choose what i believe, because i have standards. Why is it that you arent able to provide me your standard? Why is it that you cant tell me who was asking you for a physical god?

Its because ol´Charlie is a dishonest fuck, who likes to project his dishonesty onto others and keeps straw men up. What a prime example of christian virtues of not-lying.
What again happens to all liers and all other transgressors of gods laws? Is there anything anyone could not be forgiven for in your gods oh-so-superior "system" of judgement? If you are honest, you will admit that there is only one unforgivable sin. Lets see if you are able to be honest for a change.

Of course the Scripture teaches, Christ Himself, that there is only one unforgivable sin.

That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come.

The example of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit given by Christ was when the Pharisees (the religious leaders of Israel) accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of Satan.

That was the ultimate insult made to the Holy Spirit, for He was the One who performed the miracles through Christ. If you believe there is a God, those Pharisees are in hell right now.
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#91

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:19 PM)1Sam15 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 01:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: Maybe I do need glasses, or at least work on my attention to detail.

This is the first time I have seen this question. The answer...

You are looking in the wrong places for God, and it is for sure if you keep on this path you will never find Him.

Obviously, not that you really care whether you find Him or not.

All who search for God in the physical realm will never find Him, period!

I have explained how to reach God many times in my posts here.

Not that you care, or even consider what I say, but God can only be found in the spiritual realm.

Why the fuck should I look for the monster that forced me into existence in the shit hole it invented?

If you feel that way about it, then don't worry about it. Just move on with your life as you see fit.

You will find out soon enough why you should have searched after Him.
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#92

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:22 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 04:19 PM)1Sam15 Wrote: Why the fuck should I look for the monster that forced me into existence in the shit hole it invented?

If you feel that way about it, then don't worry about it. Just move on with your life as you see fit.

You will find out soon enough why you should have searched after Him.

How I feel about it is gods plan, right?

I have no control over a god who is know to harden hearts.
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#93

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Are the right and wrongmaking properties an issue of what we have to do to save our skins, rather than any property of x?
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#94

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:19 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 03:57 PM)Deesse23 Wrote: Stop projecting.
Which part of my last post(s) did you not understand? The part where i said i dont voluntarily choose what i believe, because i have standards. Why is it that you arent able to provide me your standard? Why is it that you cant tell me who was asking you for a physical god?

Its because ol´Charlie is a dishonest fuck, who likes to project his dishonesty onto others and keeps straw men up. What a prime example of christian virtues of not-lying.
What again happens to all liers and all other transgressors of gods laws? Is there anything anyone could not be forgiven for in your gods oh-so-superior "system" of judgement? If you are honest, you will admit that there is only one unforgivable sin. Lets see if you are able to be honest for a change.
Of course the Scripture teaches, Christ Himself, that there is only one unforgivable sin.

That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come.
Thanks for explaining how horrible your gods "system" of justice is, especially compared to mans justice, and why. I rest my case.
R.I.P. Hannes
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#95

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:22 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 04:19 PM)1Sam15 Wrote: Why the fuck should I look for the monster that forced me into existence in the shit hole it invented?

If you feel that way about it, then don't worry about it. Just move on with your life as you see fit.

You will find out soon enough why you should have searched after Him.

You have no idea how idiotic this sounds. 

“You will find out soon enough why you should have searched after Him.”

I’ll know after I’m dead, right? Idiot
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#96

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:08 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 12:51 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
Show ContentSpoiler:
Stop weaseling around and answer my question: Is the only reason you arent raping and pillaging, because your god told you so? If you would be doing all those things, can your god forgive you? Why are you also lying about me, insinuating i would do all these things because i dont believe in your god.

Wow, you have quite an imagination! I'm not insinuating anything, it's the guilt of your sin that causes you to accuse me of something I have not done.

That's how the Holy Spirit works, He convicts of sin, and then shows you how to put all of that behind you and begin new in Christ, a new person. 

You are not far from the Kingdom of God, my friend!
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#97

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
I fear we might never get any answers to the questions you posed in your OP charlie. You mentioned that nazis claimed they could not be held responsible because they were following the orders of their superiors - but you tell us that this is precisely what we should do and why we should follow gods orders..even as you also claim they are orders we cannot understand.

Your conclusion was malformed. If your moral system is correct - then those nazis were correct.

No?
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#98

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:25 PM)1Sam15 Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 04:22 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: If you feel that way about it, then don't worry about it. Just move on with your life as you see fit.

You will find out soon enough why you should have searched after Him.

How I feel about it is gods plan, right?

I have no control over a god who is know to harden hearts.

When the Scripture said that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, it's not what you think, and neither is it what you think when God hardens the heart of anyone. Let me explain it for you.

Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites go after repeated attempts by God through Moses. He absolutely would not let them go.

Not until the last plague did he let them go with Egypt in almost a total ruin, but even then he chased after them to kill them.

You see, Pharaoh's heart was already hardened, God didn't do that. He just said, ok you want a hardened heart as you have demonstrated, I'll give you your wish, and God doubled down on that hardened heart to make an example of Pharaoh for the rest of the kings in the world to see the power of God through the hardness of Pharaoh.
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#99

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Let's say a nazi claimed that no man could hold them responsible. That only god could hold them responsible. Would you agree or disagree?
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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 04:45 PM)Rhythmcs Wrote: Let's say a nazi claimed that no man could hold them responsible.  That only god could hold them responsible.  Would you agree or disagree?

History tells us that some of those Nazi soldiers did refuse to carry out those orders and went awol. Whether they did it through faith in God or not we don't know, or at least I don't know.

To answer your question, God gave man the authority to punish crimes/sin based on what God has pointed out in the Law of Moses as being sin.

If those responsible had made that plea "that only God could hold them responsible" they were still bound by man's law to be punished by the Divine Decree.
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