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Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
#26

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Would it matter if he did? If jesus died for your sins, would that mean you had to agree with his opinions, or pay his cable bill?
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#27

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 06:33 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 06:06 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: That is your opinion not based on a fact!

Just for the sake of saying.

The problem with the Atheists is that they choose to believe only half of the equation, that being the physical aspect.

Everything that God says and does as we read from the Scripture, has a two-fold meaning. There is the physical aspect and the spiritual aspect.

For example, lets look at the original creation of the first man (Adam). Notice the two-fold meaning of who the original man is when God is finished with him.

The Scripture states that God created the first man out of the dust of the earth. This is the physical aspect of man's original creation.

Then the Scripture says that God breathed into this man the Spirit of Life, and man became a living soul. This is the spiritual aspect of man's original creation.

The spiritual aspect of man is how God relates to man, not by the physical aspect.

So when I say there is a God in heaven, that is my personal opinion, I cannot show you a physical God. He does not reveal Himself or relate to man in the physical. He has chosen to have a spiritual relationship with man, from the spiritual aspect.

You need to try and dance faster.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#28

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 06:48 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 06:46 PM)Dānu Wrote: False.  Your understanding of ethics is that of a child.  Go find a child to debate.

You know the OP is reality. And yes, there are children who can understand this.

Children also understand Santa Claus, you're not helping yourself.
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#29

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Well, just got back from my doctors appointment and received some interesting news. I'll make this as short as possible.

A few weeks ago I has some trouble in my left hip, and the very lowest part of my lower back. I went to my doctor and he sent me to have a bone scan. A few days later I was called in to give blood for a blood test.

A few days after that, which was last Thur., my doctors office called to make an appointment asap for another bone scan at the Institute of Cancer in Charlotte.

No one is telling me anything, they say wait until all the tests have been observed by the experts. This morning my doctors office called and wanted me to make an appointment today to see my doctor. So, I was looking for the worst, needless to say.

He said that the first bone scan revealed a mass/tumor about the size of a tennis ball around the bone in my lower back. There were 2 other tumors half that size around the bone in my left hip. Between these 2 tumors there were other tumors forming and spreading out. He said this is the sign of advanced bone cancer. But they wanted to confirm it before talking to me.

He then said that the experts were puzzled at the second bone scan, because it showed no sign of any mass/tumors at all, there was nothing there. So today they took another blood test to see what is going on, and he would call me in to go over everything.

Undoubtedly, I have not finished the work God gave me to do. There is no force in the universe that can stop the believer from finishing his work given by God.

One day in the future I will have completed what He gave me to do. Then He will say, it's time for Charlie to come home.
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#30

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 07:13 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 06:56 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: You have no evidence of a physical God because you have chosen not to believe the spiritual aspect of God.
...and you have, right?
Like i said: Thats the problem with you.

You haven't been reading my posts, or you conveniently dropped my statement that "If is say there is a God a God in heaven, that is my personal opinion, I cannot show you a physical God."
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#31

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 07:11 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 06:33 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: The problem with the Atheists is that they choose to believe only half of the equation, that being the physical aspect.
Unlike you, i dont choose my beliefs. Thats the problem with you.

If you have heard the Gospel of Christ, His death, burial and resurrection, and the explanation that He died in your place for your sins that by faith in Him, you can be brought back into relationship with God the Father, then you have already made a choice to believe or reject that Gospel. 

In other words, when you stand before God at the judgement, you will have already prepared your destiny.
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#32

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 07:08 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 05:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: If there is a God, then He has given a Divine Decree found in His Word, that is a fact!
Nop

(02-20-2024, 05:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: If there is not a God, then man is left without a Higher Power and makes his laws based on his opinion, that is a fact!
So what?

If there is no God, then steal, lie, kill, and do whatever you need to do to survive. 

You have no one to answer to but the human law, if they can catch you.
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#33

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 05:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: If there is a God, then He has given a Divine Decree found in His Word, that is a fact!

If there is not a God, then man is left without a Higher Power and makes his laws based on his opinion, that is a fact!

Your first "fact" is a non-sequitur. It's entirely possible that there is a god but that it has given neither Word nor Decree.

Your second "fact" is either a false dichotomy or just plain wrong. It's entirely possible to base laws on reason rather than mere opinion. For example, reason suggests that if we want to live in a society where our risk of being murdered is minimized then we should encourage the society to adopt laws that prohibit murder and enforce them vigorously. 

Using reason to produce laws is called ethics and it's little more than the necessary interaction of individuals within a society.
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#34

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 11:01 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 05:58 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: If there is a God, then He has given a Divine Decree found in His Word, that is a fact!

If there is not a God, then man is left without a Higher Power and makes his laws based on his opinion, that is a fact!

Your first "fact" is a non-sequitur. It's entirely possible that there is a god but that it has given neither Word nor Decree.

Your second "fact" is either a false dichotomy or just plain wrong. It's entirely possible to base laws on reason rather than mere opinion. For example, reason suggests that if we want to live in a society where our risk of being murdered is minimized then we should encourage the society to adopt laws that prohibit murder and enforce them vigorously. 

Using reason to produce laws is called ethics and it's little more than the necessary interaction of individuals within a society.

You can use ethics and any other scientific means, I will use common sense.

If there is a God that created man and all that is in the universe, it is impossible that He would not give instruction to man who He has left in dominion of the world.
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#35

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 10:17 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: Well, just got back from my doctors appointment and received some interesting news. I'll make this as short as possible.

A few weeks ago I has some trouble in my left hip, and the very lowest part of my lower back. I went to my doctor and he sent me to have a bone scan. A few days later I was called in to give blood for a blood test.

A few days after that, which was last Thur., my doctors office called to make an appointment asap for another bone scan at the Institute of Cancer in Charlotte.

No one is telling me anything, they say wait until all the tests have been observed by the experts. This morning my doctors office called and wanted me to make an appointment today to see my doctor. So, I was looking for the worst, needless to say.

He said that the first bone scan revealed a mass/tumor about the size of a tennis ball around the bone in my lower back. There were 2 other tumors half that size around the bone in my left hip. Between these 2 tumors there were other tumors forming and spreading out. He said this is the sign of advanced bone cancer. But they wanted to confirm it before talking to me.

He then said that the experts were puzzled at the second bone scan, because it showed no sign of any mass/tumors at all, there was nothing there. So today they took another blood test to see what is going on, and he would call me in to go over everything.

Undoubtedly, I have not finished the work God gave me to do. There is no force in the universe that can stop the believer from finishing his work given by God.

One day in the future I will have completed what He gave me to do. Then He will say, it's time for Charlie to come home.

Radiology reports or I'll just consider that it didn't happen, at least not as you described. Dance
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#36

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 11:20 PM)brewerb Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 10:17 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: Well, just got back from my doctors appointment and received some interesting news. I'll make this as short as possible.

A few weeks ago I has some trouble in my left hip, and the very lowest part of my lower back. I went to my doctor and he sent me to have a bone scan. A few days later I was called in to give blood for a blood test.

A few days after that, which was last Thur., my doctors office called to make an appointment asap for another bone scan at the Institute of Cancer in Charlotte.

No one is telling me anything, they say wait until all the tests have been observed by the experts. This morning my doctors office called and wanted me to make an appointment today to see my doctor. So, I was looking for the worst, needless to say.

He said that the first bone scan revealed a mass/tumor about the size of a tennis ball around the bone in my lower back. There were 2 other tumors half that size around the bone in my left hip. Between these 2 tumors there were other tumors forming and spreading out. He said this is the sign of advanced bone cancer. But they wanted to confirm it before talking to me.

He then said that the experts were puzzled at the second bone scan, because it showed no sign of any mass/tumors at all, there was nothing there. So today they took another blood test to see what is going on, and he would call me in to go over everything.

Undoubtedly, I have not finished the work God gave me to do. There is no force in the universe that can stop the believer from finishing his work given by God.

One day in the future I will have completed what He gave me to do. Then He will say, it's time for Charlie to come home.

Radiology reports or I'll just consider that it didn't happen, at least not as you described. Dance

You could be right! God didn't give me the ability to discern all that He does.

Going on what I was told by the doctors, I can see God at work, or maybe as you said, that is not the case at all.
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#37

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Oh look, another pious fraud. Apparently, Charlie isn't a fan of keeping the commandments.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#38

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
First….Charlie, you have no idea how ridiculous the gospel stories are to someone that was not raised with them from childhood. I first heard the stories as a young 20 yo and it was as ridiculous sounding to me as the story of Thor or Vishnu was to you. When one hasn’t been indoctrinated (groomed?) into a specific religion, it will naturally come off as absurd. I couldn’t have believed it if I tried…and I actually did try and failed. All religions use conditioning, especially in childhood, to get people to believe the stories.

You are trying to present a dichotomy that fails with us. We don’t believe in god. We think it is as man made as our laws are…laws that were developed over time by societies that wanted to thrive. Societies using reason can usually quite easily see what “morals” and laws are needed. We’ve obviously succeeded quite well even though there are disagreements about details and extenuating circumstances.

Every generation has had slight progresses into better societies over time and, our morality has changed to encompass them. Ancients didn’t give two shits about slavery or abortion or wars. They might not have liked them but they never strived to eliminate them either. They just moralized their positions on them. We got better with time and prosperity, not because a god said so…otherwise, these issues would have been solved long before they were. It’s groups of people trying their best to live within each era that have made the changes and taught their children to live within the standards of their current era.

Your children will likely be more moral than you are unless you brainwash them into continuing the hatred and immorality of insisting that “others” aren’t as “good” as you are. Thats what religions do. They decide the criteria of morality and freeze it in place. Luckily, enough people are able to put aside their hatreds and convince others to do so as well and make a bit of progress in being more loving and inclusive thus making society a little bit better.

As religions decline, even more progress will be made. Rational people will look at continuing problems in a rational manner and come up with more rational answers. It won’t be perfect either but it won’t be because some person read the Bible and interpreted it in a manner they want to and convinces others to obey. It will be because rational people are actually trying to not just be good, but to help others be happier as well.

If you need a god to tell you that murder and rape are wrong, well, I guess I’m glad you have a god. I’ve never needed religion to tell me how to be a good person. My parents and my life experiences have made being a good person quite easy. How hard do you actually think it is to figure out “do no harm” or “help others” ? It ain’t rocket science!
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#39

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 11:51 PM)pattylt Wrote: First….Charlie, you have no idea how ridiculous the gospel stories are to someone that was not raised with them from childhood.  I first heard the stories as a young 20 yo and it was as ridiculous sounding to me as the story of Thor or Vishnu was to you.  When one hasn’t been indoctrinated (groomed?) into a specific religion, it will naturally come off as absurd.  I couldn’t have believed it if I tried…and I actually did try and failed.  All religions use conditioning, especially in childhood, to get people to believe the stories.

You are trying to present a dichotomy that fails with us.  We don’t believe in god.  We think it is as man made as our laws are…laws that were developed over time by societies that wanted to thrive.  Societies using reason can usually quite easily see what “morals” and laws are needed.  We’ve obviously succeeded quite well even though there are disagreements about details and extenuating circumstances.

Every generation has had slight progresses into better societies over time and, our morality has changed to encompass them.  Ancients didn’t give two shits about slavery or abortion or wars.  They might not have liked them but they never strived to eliminate them either.  They just moralized their positions on them.  We got better with time and prosperity, not because a god said so…otherwise, these issues would have been solved long before they were.  It’s groups of people trying their best to live within each era that have made the changes and taught their children to live within the standards of their current era.

Your children will likely be more moral than you are unless you brainwash them into continuing the hatred and immorality of insisting that “others” aren’t as “good” as you are.  Thats what religions do.  They decide the criteria of morality and freeze it in place.  Luckily, enough people are able to put aside their hatreds and convince others to do so as well and make a bit of progress in being more loving and inclusive thus making society a little bit better.

As religions decline, even more progress will be made.  Rational people will look at continuing problems in a rational manner and come up with more rational answers.  It won’t be perfect either but it won’t be because some person read the Bible and interpreted it in a manner they want to and convinces others to obey.  It will be because rational people are actually trying to not just be good, but to help others be happier as well.

If you need a god to tell you that murder and rape are wrong, well, I guess I’m glad you have a god.  I’ve never needed religion to tell me how to be a good person.  My parents and my life experiences have made being a good person quite easy.  How hard do you actually think it is to figure out “do no harm” or “help others” ? It ain’t rocket science!

Youi covered a lot here, several things I would like to address.

First, I'm sorry, but your excuse for not believing is not acceptable with God. The Scripture plainly teaches that all men/women are totally depraved in the knowledge of God, none seek after God, and all have gone astray.

At the same time, the Scripture also tells us through the apostle Paul that hearing the Gospel of Christ is the call of God to man, with man being unable to call on God without hearing that Gospel.

Furthermore, Paul also tells us that if we respond to that Gospel in a positive way, God will even give us the faith to believe Him. Faith to believe God is impossible for man on his own, it is one of the girts given to man.

So you can see that your excuse holds no water with God.

One other thing and I will close, as I cannot possibly cover all of your post with this post.

Before God gave the Law (the Law of Moses, found in the Old Testament) man did not know what sin was. He had no way of knowing without God giving this Law. As time has progressed from the time of the Law (2500 years ago) man has had the Scripture to read and we have learned what sin is according to God. I has been passed down, especially by the believers to the point that all know now know what God considers to be sin.

I'm sorry, I really am, that no person has a valid excuse before God. No matter which way you turn, what way you wish to describe it, there is no excuse for man not to believe God.
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#40

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Still ignoring the question I see.

But you don't run from anything.

You're little godiboi is pure fiction. A fairy tale dreamed up to ease the minds of frightened, insecure, naive little creatures.
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#41

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Quote:Then He will say, it's time for Charlie to come home.


Tell the bastard to shake it up!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#42

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 11:24 PM)Charlie24 Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 11:20 PM)brewerb Wrote: Radiology reports or I'll just consider that it didn't happen, at least not as you described. Dance

You could be right! God didn't give me the ability to discern all that He does.

Going on what I was told by the doctors, I can see God at work, or maybe as you said, that is not the case at all.

The lengths some believers will go to astounds me.

Edit: Curious, have you claimed that god has cured you of AIDS in another forum?
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#43

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:21 AM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Then He will say, it's time for Charlie to come home.


Tell the bastard to shake it up!

LOL, He will shake it up for all of us in His due time.

Then we will have the physical evidence, but then it's to late.

If you don't accept His relationship in "Spirit and Truth" as the Scripture says, you will not be able to accept Him at all.
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#44

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:27 AM)brewerb Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 11:24 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: You could be right! God didn't give me the ability to discern all that He does.

Going on what I was told by the doctors, I can see God at work, or maybe as you said, that is not the case at all.

The lengths some believers will go to astounds me.

Edit: Curious, have you claimed that god has cured you of AIDS in another forum?

LOL, no, that wasn't me! 

But I don't expect you to understand God or His ways with man. The way He heals, the promises He has made to those who trust in Him. You have no way of understanding this, so I take no offense from those who say things they don't understand.
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#45

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:18 AM)no one Wrote: Still ignoring the question I see.

But you don't run from anything.

You're little godiboi is pure fiction. A fairy tale dreamed up to ease the minds of frightened, insecure, naive little creatures.

I missed the question, if I had seen it you take it to the bank that I will respond to ALL questions.

So what is the question?
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#46

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-20-2024, 11:12 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: You can use ethics and any other scientific means, I will use common sense.

If there is a God that created man and all that is in the universe, it is impossible that He would not give instruction to man who He has left in dominion of the world.

Common sense is what I just showed you. 'Me no want be murdered to death so murder bad' is about as common a sense as you're going to get. Believing in an invisible man is not common sense, at least not once your age goes into the double digits. Believing that an invisible man's rules are all that keeps you from rape and murder makes me suspect that you should be on a watch list or two.

As for being in dominion, kindly notify COVID. It clearly didn't get the memo. Man isn't even in control of itself.

And if you really want to go the common sense route then give your god's word the sniff test. Would an All-Loving Creator value all human life equally? I only ask because your god's word clearly states that he ordered the death of a whole lot of people who weren't his chosen few. And a whole lot of his chosen who might have been so foolish break any of his rules, down to and including eating lobster. He's also pro-slavery and pro-rape, which kinda makes you wonder. Sounds an awful lot like the sort of rules you might find laid down by some iron age priest than any self-respecting deity.
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#47

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:14 AM)Charlie24 Wrote: Furthermore, Paul also tells us...

Would this be the same "Saint" Paul that hijacked Christianity from the Christians?
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#48

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:54 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(02-20-2024, 11:12 PM)Charlie24 Wrote: You can use ethics and any other scientific means, I will use common sense.

If there is a God that created man and all that is in the universe, it is impossible that He would not give instruction to man who He has left in dominion of the world.

Common sense is what I just showed you. 'Me no want be murdered to death so murder bad' is about as common a sense as you're going to get. Believing in an invisible man is not common sense, at least not once your age goes into the double digits. Believing that an invisible man's rules are all that keeps you from rape and murder makes me suspect that you should be on a watch list or two.

As for being in dominion, kindly notify COVID. It clearly didn't get the memo. Man isn't even in control of itself.

And if you really want to go the common sense route then give your god's word the sniff test. Would an All-Loving Creator value all human life equally? I only ask because your god's word clearly states that he ordered the death of a whole lot of people who weren't his chosen few. And a whole lot of his chosen who might have been so foolish break any of his rules, down to and including eating lobster. He's also pro-slavery and pro-rape, which kinda makes you wonder. Sounds an awful lot like the sort of rules you might find laid down by some iron age priest than any self-respecting deity.

The Atheist has much more faith than any believer in God. 

It takes extra faith, an overwhelming faith to believe that man and the universe came into existence by chance.

As far as covid, that is controlled by God. He placed man here to oversee His creation, to groom it and care for all that's here.
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#49

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
(02-21-2024, 12:57 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(02-21-2024, 12:14 AM)Charlie24 Wrote: Furthermore, Paul also tells us...

Would this be the same "Saint" Paul that hijacked Christianity from the Christians?

NO, It's the Paul of Tarsus that God gave 1/3 of the New Testament authorship to teach us the meaning of the New Covenant.
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#50

Divine Decree or the Opinion of Man
Quote:If you don't accept His relationship in "Spirit and Truth" as the Scripture says, you will not be able to accept Him at all.

Fuck him.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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