Catholicism and Cannibalism

[Bucky Ball]

I'd say the explanation suggests it never made sense to anyone - but they were stuck with it.

Except they might have thought that "substance" actually meant something.
We know it doesn't. The atoms and subatomic particles that make up bread and wine *are* the substance, and the magic words change nothing.

[Rhythmcs]

Anyone who's -ever- sat in a catholic church knows that nothing has happened to the crackers or the wine. Plenty of them could believe that this ritual was somehow important to them religiously, but not a single one would have misidentified a cracker as flesh or wine as blood, no matter how many shamans in fruity dresses and fancy hats prayed their hearts out over it.

I think that if you could get a genuine poll out of long dead catholics you'd find that the people in the pews had always noticed something was off about this. All we have, though, are the lies of christian shamans and witchdoctors, and the assent of people who agreed under penalty of death - and that silly shit..was the best they could come up with.

"It changes, but doesn't. " - Hosanna!

Miracles, all miracles, every one, are only miraculous because and explicitly because we know that things don't actually work that way. The miracle of the trinity? Not a miracle because it's magic, not a miracle because it's true. A miracle because it seemed impossible even to them. Doesn't work that way. If people routinely climbed out of their graves, likewise, we would not consider that a miracle. Every little thing the catholic church has ever decreed to be a miracle hinges on whatever that x is being Not The Way Shit Works....or else it's just normal, just natural. That...is the miracle. I'm not even speaking from the pov of an atheist here. To this very day the catholic church certifies miracles on the basis of how whatever the claim is couldn't possibly have happened any way we understand. That a god broke the rules of the universe.

[Bucky Ball]

Anyone who's -ever- sat in a catholic church knows that nothing has happened to the crackers or the wine. Plenty of them could believe that this ritual was somehow important to them religiously, but not a single one would have misidentified a cracker as flesh or wine as blood, no matter how many shamans in fruity dresses and fancy hats prayed their hearts out over it.

I think that if you could get a genuine poll out of long dead catholics you'd find that the people in the pews had always noticed something was off about this. All we have, though, are the lies of those same shamans, and the assent of people who agreed under penalty of death - and that silly shit..was the best they could come up with.

"It changes, but doesn't. " - Hosanna!

I agree, ..but I know that many of "them" (without any serious examination), *do* actually believe this. They spend countless hours praying in front of "the real presence".
They actually think it *is* Jesus. When priests are ordained, they get the power to "make the magic change".

[Minimalist]

When priests are ordained, they get the power to "make the magic change".

Some people will believe anything.

[pattylt]

I’d certainly be more impressed if the communion wafer tasted like skin and the wine like blood. That’s another item on my list for “things that would make me believe”. If any god really wanted us to believe, there’s hundreds of ways He/She/It could make it happen…absence isn’t one of them.

[Dancefortwo]

Anyone who's -ever- sat in a catholic church knows that nothing has happened to the crackers or the wine. 

The Catholic eucharist  is very reminicient of the hunters who painted the walls of the Caves of Lascaux in France. Many of these animals they killed and ate.  To the minds of hunters it seemed magical that the power, energy of an animal transformed their death into the life of the hunters body.  

They had to sacrifice these animals to sustain their own life and they honored them with those paintings.  Perhaps it was out of guilt, but most archaeologists believe they were painted to honor the sacrifice the animal's made.    It's the Jesus story on the walls of a cave in 15,000 BCE.  The Jesus concept of sacrifice is nothing new. 

The Bible is full of animal sacrifice.  It's god loves the smell of burning animal flesh.  

Leviticus:

.....but its entrails and its legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall burn the whole on the altar, as a burnt offering, an offering by fire, a pleasing odor to the LORD..... 

....but the entrails and the legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall offer the whole, and burn it on the altar; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire, a pleasing odor to the LORD. 

..... he shall tear it by its wings, but shall not divide it asunder. And the priest shall burn it on the altar, upon the wood that is on the fire; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire, a pleasing odor to the LORD

From this   v v v 
 

  

To this   v v v




Same concept.  Same idea.

[Rhythmcs]

Anyone who's -ever- sat in a catholic church knows that nothing has happened to the crackers or the wine.  Plenty of them could believe that this ritual was somehow important to them religiously, but not a single one would have misidentified a cracker as flesh or wine as blood, no matter how many shamans in fruity dresses and fancy hats prayed their hearts out over it.  

I think that if you could get a genuine poll out of long dead catholics you'd find that the people in the pews had always noticed something was off about this.   All we have, though, are the lies of those same shamans, and the assent of people who agreed under penalty of death - and that silly shit..was the best they could come up with.  

"It changes, but doesn't. " - Hosanna!

I agree, ..but I know that many of "them" (without any serious examination), *do* actually believe this. They spend countless hours praying in front of "the real presence".
They actually  think it *is* Jesus. When priests are ordained, they get the power to "make the magic change".

Something like 1/3 of Them believe in this.  That's not great.  Thousands of years to build a head of steam.  The number was probably lower before.

Remember, part of the catholic line was that the people they catholicizied were even more superstitious than they were.

I don't know that we can trust that report. The reporters are known liars, after all.

[pythagorean]

My wife is not a cannibal.

That's just a racist stereotype.

This thread has nothing to do with the Eucharist. 

What ever happened to critical thought?

This thread is looking like the Dead Mexican thread.

[Bucky Ball]

My wife is not a cannibal.

That's just a racist stereotype.

This thread has nothing to do with the Eucharist. 

What ever happened to critical thought?

This thread is looking like the Dead Mexican thread.

If Catholic Theology is true : "body, blood, soul and divinity" is true, Catholics are cannibals, by definition.
Can't have it both ways.

ETA Definition : can·ni·bal·ism
/ˈkanəbəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species.

THAT is what Catholic Theology says.

[SYZ]

...Some people will believe anything.

Yes, particularly theists.

According to the teaching of the Catholic Church, transubstantiation
is "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of
the body of Christ, and of the whole substance of wine into the substance
of the blood of Christ".

On holidays, Pastafarians eat their host (pasta), which then undergoes
transubpastification into the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Bucky Ball]

...Some people will believe anything.

Yes, particularly theists.

According to the teaching of the Catholic Church, transubstantiation
is "the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of
the body of Christ, and of the whole substance of wine into the substance
of the blood of Christ".

On holidays, Pastafarians eat their host (pasta), which then undergoes
transubpastification into the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

That's hilarious. I never heard of transubpastification. Aquinas must have a book about that, as well as the sacred colander.

Except the Church teaches that the host consists not only of the body of Christ, but also of his blood. So you can receive the host and not drink anything, and you have received the blood also.

In 1 Corinthians 11:27, we read (RSV): “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread OR drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” Whether we eat the host or drink from the cup, we profane both the body and the blood of Christ, so the host consists not only of the body of Christ, but also of his blood. Likewise, the cup consists of not only the blood, but also the body of Christ. "

Isn't it wonderful that we atheists know more about RC Theology than most RC members. Ramen. Halleluiah.

It is impossible that an authentic 1 Corinthians had already the dogma of the Eucharist, and we know the members of the Way sect of Judaism (who remained Jews until at least the end of the 1st Century, when the High Priest required the reading of the Expulsion Curses if not FAR FAR longer) as in the year 400 CE John Chrysostom's Christmas sermon, told HIS OWN congregation in Constantinople, of which he was the Archbishop, (the sermon we have a copy of), to stop going to synagogue. They were still Jews. Drinking blood would be an abomination.

[Bucky Ball]

My wife is not a cannibal.

That's just a racist stereotype.

This thread has nothing to do with the Eucharist. 

What ever happened to critical thought?

This thread is looking like the Dead Mexican thread.

No one read or followed any of your threads with all those vidio craperia.

[epronovost]

My wife is not a cannibal.

That's just a racist stereotype.

This thread has nothing to do with the Eucharist. 

What ever happened to critical thought?

This thread is looking like the Dead Mexican thread.

If Catholic Theology is true :  "body, blood, soul and divinity" is true, Catholics are cannibals, by definition.  
Can't have it both ways.

ETA Definition :  can·ni·bal·ism
/ˈkanəbəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species.

THAT is what Catholic Theology says.

This is a dumb argument. 

If Catholic Theology is true, then you are not eating the flesh of a man, but the flesh and blood of a God since Jesus is God. Last time I checked gods and humans were not from the same species thus it's obviously not cannibalism by definition.

[Minimalist]

But the nature of "jesus" was a very highly disputed point in the early phases of jesusism.    The Docetists maintained that the human form was mere illusion while the proto-orthodox declared that the fucker was BOTH man AND god.  Lots of primitive jesus freaks were killed in the riots over that one....mainly in the East.

So the absolute best you can say about catholick asswipes is that they are partial cannibals.... which, I guess, is like being almost pregnant.

[airportkid]

Cannibalism aside for a moment, what is communion supposed to confer - what's its benefit?  Whatever it is, it doesn't last long; the procedure has to be repeated weekly in perpetuity.  There's no cure it bestows.

Its repetition puts it the same category as eating and breathing: something done regularly without question.  But unlike eating and breathing, it's superfluous to survival.

As far as I know, communion cannot be taken solo, it has to happen as a crowd, administered by some sort of "certified" toastmaster.  Is it a crowd hallucinogen?

Even when I was a church going believer I thought the ritual silly, but I was born with a prejudice against ritual.  Part of why I became atheist (but only part).

What do the communion takers get from it?

[Bucky Ball]

If Catholic Theology is true :  "body, blood, soul and divinity" is true, Catholics are cannibals, by definition.  
Can't have it both ways.

ETA Definition :  can·ni·bal·ism
/ˈkanəbəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species.

THAT is what Catholic Theology says.

This is a dumb argument. 

If Catholic Theology is true, then you are not eating the flesh of a man, but the flesh and blood of a God since Jesus is God. Last time I checked gods and humans were not from the same species thus it's obviously not cannibalism by definition.

Nope.
The theology says "fully human and fully divine".
Google "incarnation".

[airportkid]

... Last time I checked gods and humans were not from the same species ...

That statement only makes sense if "god" is listed in the taxonomy of life forms.  It's absent - insofar as identity under its own name.  Most religions treat their gods as humanoid, with extra features, like superheroes, but still essentially humanoid.

[Dancefortwo]

This is a dumb argument. 

If Catholic Theology is true, then you are not eating the flesh of a man, but the flesh and blood of a God since Jesus is God. Last time I checked gods and humans were not from the same species thus it's obviously not cannibalism by definition.

Nope.
The theology says "fully human and fully divine".
Google "incarnation".

I'll take a leg with a side order of po-ta-toes.  Thanks!

[epronovost]

What do the communion takers get from it?

It's a sacrament. A religious ritual. What do you gain from a religious ritual? For one you gain a religious experience; a ritualized moment where you can experience your faith and participate in the mysticism of your own religion. Second, this specific ritual is basically used some sort of blessing and more importantly a show of your continual adherence to the creed of your religion. Repetition and ritualization of common life experience are very common in Christianity and most organized religion. These rituals help live the faith, provide the community with common experiences and give a mystical significance to otherwise mundane activities.

[pythagorean]

No one read or followed any of your threads with all those vidio craperia.

Well, I'm a bit of a Luddite, myself, so I can understand the difficulty some folks are having.

Fortunately, there is an instructional music video that teaches how to do it by example.

There's no shame in admitting ignorance, since ordinary ignorance can be cured by education. (Of course, willful ignorance and aggressive ignorance pose a more difficult problem.)

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have difficulty viewing it.

Example - 'Click' (Official Video) (OUT NOW)

[pythagorean]

If Catholic Theology is true :  "body, blood, soul and divinity" is true, Catholics are cannibals, by definition.  
Can't have it both ways.

ETA Definition :  can·ni·bal·ism
/ˈkanəbəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species.

THAT is what Catholic Theology says.

Your 21st Century Atheology may be confusing eating cows with eating people.

What does Catholic Theology have to say about cattle rustling, according to your 21st Century Atheology?

KING CRIMSON: 21st Century Schizoid Man | The PODIUM Sessions #26



King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man (Live at Hyde Park 1969)



A-one, two, three, four
Two, two, three

Cat's foot, iron claw
Neurosurgeons scream for more
Paranoia's poison door
21st century schizoid man

Blood rack, barbed wire
Politicians funeral pyre
Innocents raped with napalm fire
21st century schizoid man

Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got, he really needs
21st century schizoid man

[Bucky Ball]

If Catholic Theology is true :  "body, blood, soul and divinity" is true, Catholics are cannibals, by definition.  
Can't have it both ways.

ETA Definition :  can·ni·bal·ism
/ˈkanəbəˌliz(ə)m/
noun
the practice of eating the flesh of one's own species.

THAT is what Catholic Theology says.

Your 21st Century Atheology may be confusing eating cows with eating people.

What does Catholic Theology have to say about cattle rustling, according to your 21st Century Atheology?

KING CRIMSON: 21st Century Schizoid Man | The PODIUM Sessions #26



King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man (Live at Hyde Park 1969)



A-one, two, three, four
Two, two, three

Cat's foot, iron claw
Neurosurgeons scream for more
Paranoia's poison door
21st century schizoid man

Blood rack, barbed wire
Politicians funeral pyre
Innocents raped with napalm fire
21st century schizoid man

Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got, he really needs
21st century schizoid man

You are out of your fucking mind.

[pythagorean]

Your 21st Century Atheology may be confusing eating cows with eating people.

What does Catholic Theology have to say about cattle rustling, according to your 21st Century Atheology?

You are out of your fucking mind.

That may or may not be the case, but at least I don't eat people. (I do eat beef, though, even though it's not a part of my religion.)

Your medical diagnosis, whether true or false, appears to be timed for its distraction value, since you never did answer my question.

To recall the topic of this thread (my bold):

It is true that the processes of colonization and evangelization set the dualistic pattern between good and evil, and this devil is the accuser, the one who controls, the evil one; the Patía Valley has historically been known as a territory bearing evil. Patía, a rugged place, associated with black people, cattle theft, lowliness linked to the exercise of force, fencing, crime, and forced labor in mining. I remember as a child in Popayán, certain adults would tell children phrases like: "If you behave badly, a black person from Patía will eat you or kill you." Epithets such as "blacks," "savages," "infidels," "soulless" throughout the colonial period and until the mid-20th century, represented evil for anyone who did not conform to the established moral conduct of the nation-state. The Afro-descendants were considered "irrational" in a colonial rationality due to their distinctive conception and behavior; later, they were declared "stateless" for not participating in the liberation campaign led by Simón Bolívar, who fought for freedom alongside those who had been their masters before they escaped from slavery.

[Bucky Ball]

This is what Catholics believe.
If you don't buy into this (shit) you're not a Catholic.
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
They don't have categories for "yabuts".

[pythagorean]

This is what Catholics believe.
If you don't buy into this (shit) you're not a Catholic.
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
They don't have categories for "yabuts".

Who appointed you Chief Inquisitioner?

Your link points to Europe. This must be a cultural thingie.

In Catholicism, the center of the world, the Axis Mundi, where heaven meets earth and hell is here in America.

You didn't even get the continent right. Astrophysicists have a smaller margin of error than you.

Can you even find America on a map?