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Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
#26

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
if you only switch the tracks half way the train will derail and you can wipe them all out.
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#27

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(10-11-2023, 06:55 PM)adey67 Wrote:
(10-11-2023, 01:14 AM)airportkid Wrote: Winston Churchill faced essentially the same problem when British Intelligence had decoded German communications and discovered an air raid planned for a city north of London.  Churchill made the decision to NOT warn the city of the imminent raid because doing so would alert Germany that Britain was able to decode their communications.

Yes indeed, Coventry if I'm not mistaken.

Which led to the phrase 'sent to Coventry'.

A more modern version of the trolley problem is, should we wreck the economy to save a load of old people from Covid who will die anyway?

Which also goes to show the limitations of a thought experiment.

Are these old people more likely to be voting for you at the next General Election?

Are the 5 people tied to the tracks all billionaires and the single person a revolutionary who will bring down Capitalism and stop Earth becoming uninhabitable for the human race?
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#28

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Of course if you just stand there thinking it over the trolley will continue on its merry way, kill whoever it encounters and you can then blame this god fucker for letting it happen.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#29

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Claim that aid for the trolley victims must be separated out from aid for the bus victims, then craft a bill for bus victims that doesn't have a chance of passing.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#30

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Stay away from train tracks and switching yards.
Your moral problems will be reduced.
Test
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#31

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 06:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Stay away from train tracks and switching yards.
Your moral problems will be reduced.

#2...

Stay the fuck away from philosophy students and other airheads who think such questions have meaning.
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#32

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 01:19 PM)Mathilda Wrote:
(10-11-2023, 06:55 PM)adey67 Wrote: Yes indeed, Coventry if I'm not mistaken.

Which led to the phrase 'sent to Coventry'.

A more modern version of the trolley problem is, should we wreck the economy to save a load of old people from Covid who will die anyway?

Which also goes to show the limitations of a thought experiment.

Are these old people more likely to be voting for you at the next General Election?

Are the 5 people tied to the tracks all billionaires and the single person a revolutionary who will bring down Capitalism and stop Earth becoming uninhabitable for the human race?

Not according to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_to_Coventry
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#33

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 08:28 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(11-05-2023, 06:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Stay away from train tracks and switching yards.
Your moral problems will be reduced.

#2...

Stay the fuck away from philosophy students and other airheads who think such questions have meaning.

There are many assumptions that underlie the question which have to be clarified along with the ethical positions of the observers.

Whatever happens, the authority which allows people on the tracks at all, is most responsible. So, as you say, the question is a waste of our time.
We are all more supplicated than that.
Test
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#34

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 09:43 PM)adey67 Wrote:
(11-05-2023, 01:19 PM)Mathilda Wrote: Which led to the phrase 'sent to Coventry'.

A more modern version of the trolley problem is, should we wreck the economy to save a load of old people from Covid who will die anyway?

Which also goes to show the limitations of a thought experiment.

Are these old people more likely to be voting for you at the next General Election?

Are the 5 people tied to the tracks all billionaires and the single person a revolutionary who will bring down Capitalism and stop Earth becoming uninhabitable for the human race?

Not according to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_to_Coventry

Interesting. Thanks. I'll chalk that up to yet more bad education I received from a religious school then.
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#35

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(10-11-2023, 03:06 PM)Jarsa Wrote: Because the person you are pushing is fat enough to stop the train, and you aren't.

I resemble those remarks...lol.
test
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#36

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 06:08 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Of course if you just stand there thinking it over the trolley will continue on its merry way, kill whoever it encounters and you can then blame this god fucker for letting it happen.

I find passing the buck emotionally satisfying, but I prefer to point the finger at Santa Clause.

After all, as an atheist, I realize that God doesn't exist, unlike Santa Clause, who I see all over the place every Christmas.
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#37

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
That is true. Jebus has the whole world in his hands.
In his hand he has the whole world in his hands.
Tongue
Test
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#38

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 09:43 PM)adey67 Wrote:
(11-05-2023, 01:19 PM)Mathilda Wrote: Which led to the phrase 'sent to Coventry'.

A more modern version of the trolley problem is, should we wreck the economy to save a load of old people from Covid who will die anyway?

Which also goes to show the limitations of a thought experiment.

Are these old people more likely to be voting for you at the next General Election?

Are the 5 people tied to the tracks all billionaires and the single person a revolutionary who will bring down Capitalism and stop Earth becoming uninhabitable for the human race?

Not according to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_to_Coventry

Also the story about giving Coventry warning of an impending air raid struck me as being a load of bollocks. WWII anti aircraft gun battery's around British cities were not particularly effective, so no matter how many gun emplacements encircled Coventry it still would have been flattened.
And as for evacuation, that would be a big ask:

Quote:Official local and government figures for Coventry's population in 1940 vary wildly, and range from 190,000 to 250,000. The official Home Office figure is quoted at 238,400. Between 50,000 & 100,000 of these were staying outside Coventry around the time of the November raid.Link
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#39

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 06:08 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Of course if you just stand there thinking it over the trolley will continue on its merry way, kill whoever it encounters and you can then blame this god fucker for letting it happen.

Yes, inaction is also always an option. Decisions partly depend on the time available to make them. It matters whether the time is "split-second" or an afternoon of thought.
Never argue with people who type fast and have too much time on their hands...
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#40

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 08:28 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(11-05-2023, 06:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Stay away from train tracks and switching yards.
Your moral problems will be reduced.

#2...

Stay the fuck away from philosophy students and other airheads who think such questions have meaning.

I think the question is more about how to choose among choices than the reality of the situation described. It is very unlikely that anyone would face the actual dillemma involved. But thinking about how you would decide has some value.

The dillemma has some uncertainties. You don't know the future possibilities of the potential victims. So you can't evaluate the future value of them.

I really liked the idea of alternative ways of looking at this question.
Never argue with people who type fast and have too much time on their hands...
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#41

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 01:09 PM)Mathilda Wrote: if you only switch the tracks half way the train will derail and you can wipe them all out.

How many passenger deaths might the derailment cause? Panic Dunno

And if I'm reading you correctly, you mean all the tied-down people?
Never argue with people who type fast and have too much time on their hands...
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#42

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-05-2023, 11:21 PM)Mathilda Wrote:
(11-05-2023, 09:43 PM)adey67 Wrote: Not according to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_to_Coventry

Interesting. Thanks. I'll chalk that up to yet more bad education I received from a religious school then.

Don't feel bad the only reason I knew/guessed was I remember my grandmother talking about being sent to Coventry in the early 1920's.
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#43

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-06-2023, 04:18 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I really liked the idea of alternative ways of looking at this question.
I look at it more like a complicity survey than a moral dilemma.   A question not so much about the right thing to do, as the worst thing you'd personally do in the situation.

I loved the looping track solution. I think it addresses the hitler proposition. Where we're asked - but what if one of the many was hitler..what if one of the few was hitler? My man, if any of them could be hitler.......
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#44

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(10-11-2023, 12:57 AM)Jarsa Wrote: While 
It's weird how you can justify sacrificing one person for the lives of 5 in the first scenario, but you are unwilling to do so by pushing a guy off the bridge in the second scenario, even when the end result is ultimately the same. 

Well, here’s another scenario.

You see a cage with one woman, and another cage with 5 women.

Somebody tells you that if you don’t rape the woman in the first cage, that he’s going to rape all 5 of the women in the second cage.

What should you do?

Philosophy is hard.

I’m sure glad that I’m a mathematician.
test
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#45

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Cave his skull in?
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#46

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-07-2023, 12:21 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: Cave his skull in?

Ha! 

I’m a pacifist.

On the other hand, I’ve been reading about the history of my wife’s religion.

There were 4 religious tunes mentioned in the article to represent her religion.

Three of the tunes were in Spanish.

The fourth was a Bob Marley tune in English.

Are you a fan of religious music?

“Stolen from Africa, brought to America. Fighting for survival. Fighting on arrival.”

Bob Marley & The Wailers - Buffalo Soldier (Official Music Video)



Nah, her ancestors didn’t have cannons and stuff.

It was more like this.

(Did I mention that my wife has three machetes under our bed? It’s just a part of her culture, and her religion.)

Academia de San Francisco - ESGRIMA COLOMBIANA - Esgrima de machete y bordón - LAS SIETE PARADAS

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#47

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Well, that's a description of what you are, but the question was (ostensibly) about what should be done - not about what you are. If anyone tells you about their plan to rape five women, you might be a pacifist - and in that case you'll probably need to ask for help from someone who's fine with caving skulls in..in order to do what should be done.

I'm a yoooge fan of religious music, yes.
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#48

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-07-2023, 01:44 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: Well, that's a description of what you are, but the question was (ostensibly) about what should be done - not about what you are.  If anyone tells you about their plan to rape five women, you might be a pacifist - and in that case you'll probably need to ask for help from someone who's fine with caving skulls in..in order to do what should be done.

I'm a yoooge fan of religious music, yes.

Well, you know what the Irish say about raping nuns…

St Patrick's Battalion - David Rovics (Cover) by Seth Staton Watkins

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#49

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
(11-07-2023, 01:44 AM)Rhythmcs Wrote: Well, that's a description of what you are, but the question was (ostensibly) about what should be done - not about what you are.

Well, my plan is to get out of the way.

I certainly don’t want to cramp her style.

Her theory is that when somebody sees a Black woman with a machete, they’ll run away.

I don’t know if she is right or not, but it would scare the hell out of me!

Unless, of course, she’s just using it for yard work and tending to her flower garden.

GRUPO NICHE MI MACHETE

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#50

Does anyone have any unique views about the trolley problem?
Jesus and you wonder why or even IF this forum is toxic, if you need a reason the comments in this topic ort to provide the answer.

The Trolley Problem is a thought experiment specifically designed to not have a solution. If it had a solution the solution would be stop the train, or even derailing the train may be an option if the crew of the train is one or if derailment survivable which it probably is depending on the location of the railway fork.
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