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My philosophy of good and bad
#1

My philosophy of good and bad
Note to Reader: There are 2 versions of good and bad. The 1st version is where something's good or bad, but doesn't matter, and the 2nd version is where something's good or bad, but does matter. I only use the 2nd version throughout this document. So, when you, for example, read: "Perceived as good or bad," that means: "Perceived as mattering." Now, there's only one time I use the 1st version in this document, and I let you know when I use it.

My Philosophy of Good and Bad

Good and bad are perceptions, which means only perceived goodness and badness exist. In other words, things are only good or bad when one perceives them as good or bad. So, things only matter when they matter to an individual (when he/she perceives them as mattering). That means things subjectively matter. But, if nothing can matter to an individual, then he/she can't care about anything, which means he/she can't perceive anything as mattering. 

Now, when something matters to an individual, that's a state of mind, which I call "an x state." X states can be shallow or profound and intense or not intense. For example, being there for your family might profoundly and intensely matter to you (matter very much to you), and buying a certain fancy item might shallowly and not intensely matter to you (matter very little to you). 

Also, x states are always states of pleasure or displeasure (states of wanting, liking, or disliking). For example, disgust, rage, and misery are states of disliking (unpleasant x states), excitement is wanting or liking (a pleasant x state), and happiness and pride are liking (pleasant x states). Pleasant x states are perceptions of goodness. In other words, pleasant x states make things perceived as good.

Since perceiving things as good is the same thing as things being good in our lives (in our mental universes/minds), then pleasant x states make things good in our lives. Now, here's an example that illustrates pleasant x states as being perceptions of goodness. I'm going to use liking for this example. The more profoundly and intensely you like something (a work of art, for example), the better you like it, which means the better (more good) it becomes in your eyes, which means the more it pleasantly matters to you. 

Pleasant x states that are shallow and not intense give our lives a low level of goodness because they make things perceived as slightly good, while pleasant x states that are more profound and more intense give our lives a higher level of goodness because they make things perceived as better. As you can see, all pleasant x states are perceptions of goodness. 

As a matter of fact, pleasant x states are the only perceptions of goodness, which means nothing can be perceived as good (as mattering) without them. So, pleasant x states are the only source of goodness in our lives. As for unpleasant x states, they're the only perceptions of badness, which means they're the only source of badness in our lives.

It's always better to have goodness in our lives than badness because perceiving things as good always makes them better in our lives than perceiving them as bad. That means pleasant x states are always better than unpleasant ones. So, it would've been better if Hitler pleasantly mattered to us (was perceived as a good person) than unpleasantly mattering to us (perceived as bad) because that would've made him good in our lives instead of bad. 

Now, in regards to having goodness in our lives, that can be metaphorically described as having the light of God or the inner light. Any moment where the inner light is absent is a moment where it's no way to live. The more moments we have of the inner light (pleasant x states), and the more profound and intense that inner light is, the better. Inner light that's everlasting and the most profound and intense in the world is the best thing (the greatest good). 

It makes things in our lives the best, it's the best experience, and it can be called "the best, everlasting bliss." If heaven (the afterlife) exists, then souls that live there have the best, everlasting bliss. But, what about us who live on Earth? Well, we can achieve temporary moments of the best bliss by going on powerful drug trips or near death experience (nde) induced trips. Now, in regards to unpleasant x states, they can be metaphorically described as the darkness of Satan or the inner darkness. 

Inner darkness that's everlasting and the most profound and intense in the world is the worst thing (the greatest bad). It makes things in our lives the worst, it's the worst experience, and it can be called "the worst, everlasting suffering." If hell exists, then souls that live there have it. Some people living on Earth might wish to have temporary moments of it by going on drug or nde trips. But, having the inner darkness, whether it's the worst, moderate, or least suffering, can never be better than having the inner light, no matter what. 

So, if you had a choice, it would be better to have the inner light your entire life while being permanently paralyzed and unable to do anything for humanity than to have the inner darkness your entire life and use it to help humanity, create artistic masterpieces, change the world, make new discoveries, etc. Having neither the inner light nor the inner darkness is also better than having the inner darkness because it's always better to have neutrality (neither goodness nor badness) in our lives than badness. 

So, neutrality is always much better than the worst suffering. But, the inner light is always better than neutrality, which means the best bliss is always much better than neutrality. Neutrality is an emotionless state, by the way, and the inner light and inner darkness are pleasant and unpleasant emotions. That's because all x states are emotional states (and all emotional states are x states). An example of some pleasant emotions would be happiness, amazement, excitement, sexual attraction, and valuing a person or thing.

An example of some unpleasant emotions would be fear, frustration, agitation, misery, disgust, and rage. Now, if an emotionless person had the mindset that something was good or bad, then that mindset alone couldn't make him perceive it as good or bad (as mattering), which means nothing in his life/mental universe can be good or bad. Also, a blind person's mindset alone can't allow him to perceive (see) something as red or blue, which means nothing in his life can be red or blue. 

As you can see, goodness, badness, and colors are perceptions that no mindset alone can give us. There were moments where my life was devoid of goodness and badness. So, I was emotionless. I had the mindset that something mattered to me, but that mindset alone couldn't make it matter to me (perceived as good or bad) because emotions are the only x states. Also, if an insomniac person had the mindset of being sleepy, then that mindset alone can't make him sleepy. 

As you can see, our mindset alone can't be a state of sleepiness, hunger, thirst, nausea, or an x state. Here's a quote by Hume (a famous philosopher) that indicates reason (our mindset) alone can't be an x state: "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions." Anyway, there were moments where I was emotionless, and then there were many moments where I was emotionally displeased/bothered by things as a result of chronic worries.

I, thus, had many moments of badness (suffering/unhappiness), and these moments were an ongoing, long term struggle. I tried to reason away my chronic worries and suffering because I don't want to experience badness. But, reasoning didn't work, and it would be like reasoning with a phobia in an attempt to rid of the fear, which doesn't work. Also, when I was worried and suffering, my pleasant emotions (pleasant x states) were disabled, which means I had no moments of goodness.

As a matter of fact, pleasant emotions are fleeting for many people because there are mental illnesses, brain damage, and unhappy moments, which disable pleasant emotions. For example, clinical depression is a mental illness that disables pleasant emotions. Since pleasant emotions are the only source of goodness and are fleeting in this Earthly existence, and if god and the afterlife exist, then why aren't we in heaven, where we have the best, everlasting bliss? 

Since heaven is the most blissful place, it's the best existence and far better than this unfortunate, Earthly existence. I don't understand why god would send our souls here to suffer, instead of having us remain in heaven. All my Earthly suffering (unhappiness) was unnecessary and robbed my life of goodness and filled it with much badness. I would've, thus, been much better off living in heaven. But, if suffering is necessary for pleasant x states to exist, then only a little bit of suffering is needed. 

One shouldn't have to endure years of chronic suffering like I did. With that being said, I'm now going to move on to the next topic by explaining some things about my philosophy. My philosophy is based upon my personal experience and is a form of hedonism, which advocates experiencing pleasant emotions and not unpleasant ones. For example, my philosophy says that, instead of being motivated by fear or rage, it would be better to be motivated by bliss because bliss is always better than unpleasant emotions. 

Instead of being miserable and suicidal, it would be better to blissfully persevere. But, as I said earlier, a little bit of unhappiness might be necessary for pleasant x states to exist. Any unnecessary unhappiness would be needlessly robbing our lives of goodness and giving our lives badness. Some people embrace unnecessary unhappiness, though, and think that an entire life filled with much unhappiness and absence of emotional pleasure is better than one filled with much emotional pleasure. 

They think so because they think a tough, brutal life is better than an easy, emotionally pleasant one. Basically, it's a philosophy opposite of mine. If anyone tries to convert me to this philosophy, it won't work because anyone's attempts to convert me to a different philosophy will fail. I think I'll always disagree with any philosophy that opposes mine. So, I don't think my philosophy will ever change. I've had this philosophy my entire life, and perhaps I'll have it for the rest of my life.

Now, there's a philosophy that advocates reason alone as being able to perceive goodness. But, until reason alone allows me to perceive goodness, l'll never convert to this philosophy and will only have my fleeting, pleasant emotions as a source of goodness. My pleasant emotions have always been the only perceptions of goodness, and my unpleasant emotions the only perceptions of badness. Now, reason alone allows me and everyone else to perceive the 1st version of good and bad that I mentioned in the note to reader at the beginning. 

But, I'm talking about the 2nd version, which reason alone can't perceive. Others claim reason alone can, and those who claim this are advocates of reason. But, I disagree with them, based upon my personal experience. I have my personal experience to go by and others have theirs, and that's that. Also, those who advocate reason alone don't realize an emotionless existence is robotic. 

Nothing can matter to robots, which means they can't care about anything because they're apathetic machines that can't fear, love, hate, etc. So, they can't perceive anything as good or bad. They can still perform tasks, though, and emotionless people can perform tasks, even though said tasks can't matter to them. But, living like that is no way to live. Being emotionally pleased is the way to live. For me, being emotionally pleased has always been the only life that works for me.

Being emotionless or, even worse, unhappy, is no way to live for me, regardless of how much I follow the advice to live by a philosophy that advocates ignoring my perceptions of badness and inability to perceive goodness (my unhappiness and absence of pleasant emotions), and to focus on supposedly objectively good things, such as my family, helping humanity, etc. Such advice is, thus, unhelpful. 

Since it's unhelpful, that's why I disagree with philosophies that advocate objective goodness and badness. Good and bad are subjective, by the way. Nothing objectively matters, which means nothing matters in one's life if he/she doesn't perceive anything as mattering. So, objective goodness and badness don't exist. But, there are things that are objectively necessary. For example, water is necessary for one's survival, even if he/she doesn't perceive it as necessary. 

But, just because water is objectively necessary doesn't mean it objectively matters. Water subjectively matters. For example, water might not matter to someone who wishes to die of thirst, but would matter very much to someone who wishes to save his life by giving him some water. But, if water and other things do objectively matter, and I later knew this somehow, then focusing on objectively good things isn't enough when I'm unhappy and absent of pleasant emotions. 

That's because I must have my ability to perceive things as good and not as bad. Otherwise, it's no way to live for me, no matter what. As you can see, knowing there are objectively good things and focusing on them would be of no help to me. The only thing that would help me is treatments, such as therapy and medication, that would alleviate my unhappiness and restore my pleasant emotions.
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#2

My philosophy of good and bad
Baldness is an unpleasant X

[Image: men%20frontal%20hairpiece2.png]
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#3

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-27-2023, 09:19 PM)Mindwave Wrote: Note to Reader: There are 2 versions of good and bad....... 


Note to Writer: Who the heck are you?
                                                         T4618
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#4

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-27-2023, 09:19 PM)Mindwave Wrote: bla bla bla

As you can see, all pleasant x states are perceptions of goodness. 

LOL. So .... being intoxicated for a 30 year sober alcoholic are perceptions
of goodness.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
Test
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#5

My philosophy of good and bad


https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/for...php?fid=93
Is this sig thing on?
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#6

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 02:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(09-27-2023, 09:19 PM)Mindwave Wrote: bla bla bla

As you can see, all pleasant x states are perceptions of goodness. 

LOL. So .... being intoxicated for a 30 year sober alcoholic are perceptions
of goodness.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

I know one thing for sure - writing a wall of text with rambling brain spillage all over it is not so good.
                                                         T4618
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#7

My philosophy of good and bad
Goody goody two shoes is bad to the bone.
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#8

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-27-2023, 09:19 PM)Mindwave Wrote: Note to Reader: There are 2 versions of good and bad. The 1st version is where something's good or bad, but doesn't matter, and the 2nd version is where something's good or bad, but does matter. I only use the 2nd version throughout this document. So, when you, for example, read: "Perceived as good or bad," that means: "Perceived as mattering." Now, there's only one time I use the 1st version in this document, and I let you know when I use it.

My Philosophy of Good and Bad

Good and bad are perceptions, which means only perceived goodness and badness exist.

I could tell you were a new crazy theist from the start.  The rambling length was an obvious clue.  The illogic helped me see that immediately.  The weird analogies were a nice give0away.  You'll be around for a week or two until you realize your crazy thoughts have no impact on rational people.  

I wouldn't respond to you post, paragraph by paragraph, if I was bored to tears...  Too long, too rambling, too silly.
38 years ago here, I could see The Milky Way. Then only the stars and planets. And now I can barely see the brightest planets sometimes.
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#9

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-27-2023, 09:19 PM)Mindwave Wrote: ...But, just because water is objectively necessary doesn't mean it objectively matters. Water subjectively matters. For example, water might not matter to someone who wishes to die of thirst, but would matter very much to someone who wishes to save his life by giving him some water. But, if water and other things do objectively matter, and I later knew this somehow, then focusing on objectively good things isn't enough when I'm unhappy and absent of pleasant emotions.

[Image: philosophy-major.jpeg]
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#10

My philosophy of good and bad
I doubt that I am going to get attached to this one!
  • “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.” ― H.L. Mencken, 1922
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#11

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 03:21 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 02:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: LOL. So .... being intoxicated for a 30 year sober alcoholic are perceptions
of goodness.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

I know one thing for sure - writing a wall of text with rambling brain spillage all over it is not so good.

My thoughts exactly I couldn't work out what he's actually trying to say but he is a noob and he doesn't strike me as being here for disingenuous reasons so I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell so they say.
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#12

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 10:35 AM)adey67 Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 03:21 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote: I know one thing for sure - writing a wall of text with rambling brain spillage all over it is not so good.

My thoughts exactly I couldn't work out what he's actually trying to say but he is a noob and he doesn't strike me as being here for disingenuous reasons so I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell so they say.

I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process of learning and revising continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.
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#13

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 01:37 PM)Mindwave Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 10:35 AM)adey67 Wrote: My thoughts exactly I couldn't work out what he's actually trying to say but he is a noob and he doesn't strike me as being here for disingenuous reasons so I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell so they say.

I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.

Mindwave, I can't speak for anyone else but 'I' couldn't make head nor tail of your opening post. Have you posted these thoughts on a dedicated philosophy forum?
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#14

My philosophy of good and bad
I think the point of the OP is simply that, like beauty being in the eye of the beholder, whether something is "good" or "bad" is entirely in the mind affected by it.  There's nothing in the OP about the supernatural.

Personally, I agree with that notion.  What any actor does cannot be anything other than what that actor perceives as the right action from their perspective.  How it affects others will be taken as "good" or "bad" with respect to their perspective.

Any action will induce multiple consequences that even in the mind of the actor will range from "good" to "bad" according to their own priorities; the actor finds more "good" than "bad" according to their own priorities in making an action.  No god is needed in that equation, although some people will install a god to increase the weight of perceived "goodness" (justify what they're doing).

Is that about right, Mindwave?  Welcome to the forum.
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#15

My philosophy of good and bad
“Man does not strive for pleasure; only the Englishman does”

Nietzsche
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#16

My philosophy of good and bad
TL/DR

BTW, I (we) like to be talkled to, not preached at.

Edit: Looks like (basicly) a copy/paste from here: https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?t=40730
(Warning, signature only) Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#17

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 01:37 PM)Mindwave Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 10:35 AM)adey67 Wrote: My thoughts exactly I couldn't work out what he's actually trying to say but he is a noob and he doesn't strike me as being here for disingenuous reasons so I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell so they say.

I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process of learning and revising continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.

Your post was clear and explanatory about your thoughts. However, they don't have much in common with reality. Your thinking is very subjective. And subjective is not very fact-oriented.
38 years ago here, I could see The Milky Way. Then only the stars and planets. And now I can barely see the brightest planets sometimes.
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#18

My philosophy of good and bad
Welcome!

I’m sorry but I don’t have enough attention span to read a large wall of text. Is it possible you could summarize or give the TLDR version? That would be a big help to me. If every word is necessary, then I’ll just stay silent and wave, Hello!
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#19

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 01:37 PM)Mindwave Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 10:35 AM)adey67 Wrote: My thoughts exactly I couldn't work out what he's actually trying to say but he is a noob and he doesn't strike me as being here for disingenuous reasons so I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell so they say.

I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.

You are not using 'good' and 'bad' in a moral sense, you are defining those words more like what makes you happy and unhappy--which is describing a form of hedonism. Do I have that right?

In addition, your stance on what makes something subjective or objective appears to be somewhat confused or unclear. You need to distinguish between subjective experiences and objective facts, acknowledging that both can coexist and influence one's understanding of good and bad (even if you simply mean happy and unhappy).
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#20

My philosophy of good and bad
Stevie, you have never gotten anything right in your whole life.

At least the OP is talking about real world stuff...not childish fairy tales like you and your ilk.
  • “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.” ― H.L. Mencken, 1922
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#21

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 05:47 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 01:37 PM)Mindwave Wrote: I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.

You are not using 'good' and 'bad' in a moral sense, you are defining those words more like what makes you happy and unhappy--which is describing a form of hedonism. Do I have that right?

In addition, your stance on what makes something subjective or objective appears to be somewhat confused or unclear. You need to distinguish between subjective experiences and objective facts, acknowledging that both can coexist and influence one's understanding of good and bad (even if you simply mean happy and unhappy).

And yet YOU yourself used the very same argument, in attempting your "remedy" argument, and claiming that Christians are happy and fulfilled.

How stupid do you thunk we are ?
Test
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#22

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 05:24 PM)brewerb Wrote: TL/DR

BTW, I (we) like to be talkled to, not preached at.

Edit: Looks like (basicly) a copy/paste from here: https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?t=40730

Yes, there are a few of them, that's why I asked him if he had posted this elsewhere.
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#23

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 05:47 PM)SteveII Wrote: In addition, your stance on what makes something subjective or objective appears to be somewhat confused or unclear...

Jesus glue-sniffing Christ!

[Image: e89311fa5c4e1ae5ad2a46aaca308181.jpg]
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#24

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-28-2023, 05:26 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-28-2023, 01:37 PM)Mindwave Wrote: I tried to make my philosophy as clear as possible to readers. I thought I presented and explained it very well. So, I'm not sure why you didn't understand it. Could you point out some things you didn't understand? I'll clarify them. Also, when I learn what people didn't understand, I revise my philosophical material to make it clear. This process of learning and revising continues until my entire philosophy is clear. Lastly, I'm not here for disingenuous reasons.

Your post was clear and explanatory about your thoughts.  However, they don't have much in common with reality.  Your thinking is very subjective.  And subjective is not very fact-oriented.

If my philosophy was clear, then why do some people here not understand it? Also, if things do objectively matter as you claim, then that means things would matter, regardless if they mattered to us or not. That would dismiss x states as unnecessary, trivial things. But, my philosophy treats x states as important. 

So, my philosophy focuses on x states, while opposite philosophies focus on other things, such as helping humanity, regardless if helping others couldn't matter to us or if it unpleasantly mattered to us (was perceived as bad). Since my philosophy treats x states as important, it treats them as a source of goodness and badness in our lives. 

Pleasant x states are the source of goodness, and experiencing them is the way to live. Unpleasant x states are the source of badness. Experiencing them is no way to live, and it's better to be dead than to live with them. That especially applies to ones that are worse (more profound and more intense).
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#25

My philosophy of good and bad
(09-29-2023, 02:54 AM)Mindwave Wrote: Pleasant x states are the source of goodness, and experiencing them is the way to live. Unpleasant x states are the source of badness. Experiencing them is no way to live, and it's better to be dead than to live with them. That especially applies to ones that are worse (more profound and more intense).

My divorce twenty years ago is one of the most painful and unpleasant experiences I ever had.  I was in a state of near-constant fear for months (a restraining order was involved).  My weight jumped about fifty pounds from the stress, and I developed an awful case of acid reflux.  I literally walked away from a fully paid-off house and only got back half of its value in the divorce settlement, and also lost some of my possessions because the ex refused to hand them over.

It was the best damn thing I ever did, and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

Sometimes one needs to walk through the flames to get to where the good stuff is.
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