Small cracks in the Mormon church.

[Dancefortwo]

This was in the Washington Post this morning;

"He was Mormon royalty. Now his lawsuit against the church is a rallying cry." 

Here's the gist of the article for those who can't get past the WaPo firewall.

  James Huntsman’s family is sometimes called the “Mormon Kennedys,” with members whose titles have included governor, ambassador, billionaire and apostle. For decades, he was a committed church member, tithing 10 percent of his income, as the faith expects.

But when another church member filed an IRS whistleblower complaint in 2019, Huntsman’s theological and spiritual doubts shifted to anger, and he demanded his money back. David Nielsen’s complaint alleged that the church had been hoarding $100 billion in tithes, and had used a few billion in tax-free dollars meant for charity to build an upscale mall. 

It goes on to say.....

 Now Huntsman, a film distributor and father of five, has become an unlikely and high-profile critic of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, at a time when members’ demands for transparency are rising and church growth rates are dramatically slowing. A lawsuit that Huntsman filed in 2021 accusing the church of fraud initially was rejected by a federal judge but was revived a few weeks ago. A federal appeals court panel voted 2-1 that jurors should hear Huntsman’s argument and his demand for a refund of $5 million minimum. 

Then there's this...

 Huntsman’s suit and Nielsen’s complaint have been mentioned as a trigger by many recent exiters from the church, said John Dehlin, host of the long-running Mormon Stories podcast, popular with questioning and progressive members of Mormonism or other faith groups as well as those who have left the LDS church. Dehlin was excommunicated in 2015 for trying on his show to convince people that some church teachings are wrong. Two high-ranking church officials came on his show this year and expressed doubt about the church and pointed to the cases of Nielsen and Huntsman as fuel 

Bwahahaha.   Maybe a few Mormons are questioning Joseph Smith's ability to look at rocks in a hat and interpret it to be a message from a god.   All religions are rather dumb but the Mormons and Scientologist have the corner market on "Stupid Religion".   I find a lot of similarities between Mormonology  and Scientology......special planets for believers and all that rot.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/...lying-cry/

[airportkid]

The high irony of religion is that its core human objective is to make ourselves better, but we can't be trusted to make ourselves better ourselves, or make ourselves better just by being decent for the sake of being decent; no, the only means of betterment is continuous threat by a tyrannical godzilla who can read our minds.  The sheer childishness of it is stupefying.

It's taking generations to mature out of that childishness, but that maturity does seem to be progressing.

[Minimalist]

Mormon is a special kind of stupid.  Maybe a few are starting to wise up?

[Dancefortwo]

Mormon is a special kind of stupid.  Maybe a few are starting to wise up?

For some reason I'm fascinated by religious deconversion stories, but a deconverted Mormon is really fun.  I guess the magic rocks in the hat trick is so utterly stupid, it's really difficult for me to understand how anyone anywhere on this planet could possibly believe this shit.

[Minimalist]

How can they believe in magic underwear?

[pattylt]

I’ve known quite a few Mormons through the years…some of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. They also have one of the most ridiculous, stupidest religions ever. They’re in my category that flat earthers occupy. How can you believe that shit? Many treat their women like shit as well. I have to bite my tongue to not ask them if they’re planning their Kobol vacations yet.

[Dancefortwo]

I’ve known quite a few Mormons through the years…some of the nicest people you’ll ever meet.  They also have one of the most ridiculous, stupidest religions ever.  They’re in my category that flat earthers occupy.  How can you believe that shit?  Many treat their women like shit as well.  I have to bite my tongue to not ask them if they’re planning their Kobol vacations yet.

I agree, they're super nice people but they're sort of like 12 year old children, still in the gullability phase of growing up, except they never, ever grow up.

[c172]

Funeral potatoes.

[pattylt]

Funeral potatoes.

Lime mellow with marshmallows.

[Minimalist]

Bill Maher Mormon Unbaptism

[Cavebear]

This was in the Washington Post this morning;

"He was Mormon royalty. Now his lawsuit against the church is a rallying cry." 

Here's the gist of the article for those who can't get past the WaPo firewall.

  James Huntsman’s family is sometimes called the “Mormon Kennedys,” with members whose titles have included governor, ambassador, billionaire and apostle. For decades, he was a committed church member, tithing 10 percent of his income, as the faith expects.

But when another church member filed an IRS whistleblower complaint in 2019, Huntsman’s theological and spiritual doubts shifted to anger, and he demanded his money back. David Nielsen’s complaint alleged that the church had been hoarding $100 billion in tithes, and had used a few billion in tax-free dollars meant for charity to build an upscale mall. 

It goes on to say.....

 Now Huntsman, a film distributor and father of five, has become an unlikely and high-profile critic of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, at a time when members’ demands for transparency are rising and church growth rates are dramatically slowing. A lawsuit that Huntsman filed in 2021 accusing the church of fraud initially was rejected by a federal judge but was revived a few weeks ago. A federal appeals court panel voted 2-1 that jurors should hear Huntsman’s argument and his demand for a refund of $5 million minimum. 

Then there's this...

 Huntsman’s suit and Nielsen’s complaint have been mentioned as a trigger by many recent exiters from the church, said John Dehlin, host of the long-running Mormon Stories podcast, popular with questioning and progressive members of Mormonism or other faith groups as well as those who have left the LDS church. Dehlin was excommunicated in 2015 for trying on his show to convince people that some church teachings are wrong. Two high-ranking church officials came on his show this year and expressed doubt about the church and pointed to the cases of Nielsen and Huntsman as fuel 

Bwahahaha.   Maybe a few Mormons are questioning Joseph Smith's ability to look at rocks in a hat and interpret it to be a message from a god.   All religions are rather dumb but the Mormons and Scientologist have the corner market on "Stupid Religion".   I find a lot of similarities between Mormonology  and Scientology......special planets for believers and all that rot.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/...lying-cry/

Yeah, the Mormon Church (and Scientology) define how utterly and truly dumb some religions can be. Not that the others make much more sense, but those 2 really define "stupid" in a unique way.

BTW, I knew that Joseph Smith looked into a hat to learn his theology (and changed it the second time), but I didn't know rocks were involved. I learn something new every day.

I live near Washington DC. I have passed by the Fairy Castle many times. It is actually astonishingly beautiful. But like some medieval and modern churches, it mostly shows me how gifts to a church are used for self-glory and not for the people they claim to help.

[Dancefortwo]

BTW, I knew that Joseph Smith looked into a hat to learn his theology (and changed it the second time), but I didn't know rocks were involved.  I learn something new every day.

I live near Washington DC.  I have passed by the Fairy Castle many times.  It is actually astonishingly beautiful.  But like some medieval and modern churches, it mostly shows me how gifts to a church are used for self-glory and not for the people they claim to help.

When we drove from Oregon through Utah to get to the Grand Canyon we stayed over night in a small town about 50 miles from Salt Lake City and couldn't find anyplace to get a cup of coffee or even tea or .  Mormons don't drink anything with caffine in it.  So we went down the freeway a ways and found a Denny's and got some coffee there.  While we were sitting there having breakfast this guy comes in with his two wives and about 12 kids.  I was so disgusted I almost tossed up my bacon and eggs. 


So I guess it was just one "seer stone" not a bunch of them.  Here's the magic rock.  It was published in the Salt Lake City Tribune 



The caption under the photo reads:

 Pictures of a smooth, brown, egg-sized rock are shown in the printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon following a news conference Tuesday, Aug. 4, 2015, at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Church History Library, in Salt Lake City. The Mormon church for the first time is publishing photos of a small sacred stone it believes founder Joseph Smith used to help translate the story that became the basis of the religion. The Mormon church is taking another step in its push to be more transparent, and is releasing more historical documents that shed light on how Joseph Smith formed the religion.   

The Mormon prophet said he was able to "translate" the "reformed Egyptian" language, using spiritual tools, including his "seer stone."

    

My very favorite Joseph Smith con job was the translation of some Egyptian hierglyphics that he thought was the sacrific of Isaac but turned out to be a common religious theme from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and had zero to do with the Bible.  Unbeknownst to Joseph Smith the Rosetta Stone, which was in the hands of language experts in France, could have easily translated it for what it was, but Joseph Smith, the conman, saw Abraham sacrificing Isaac. I'm not sure if he used the stupid rock to translate. Sometimes I wonder if Joseph Smith was re-incarnated and came back as  L. Ron Hubbard.  LOLOLOL! 

[Bucky Ball]

BTW, I knew that Joseph Smith looked into a hat to learn his theology (and changed it the second time), but I didn't know rocks were involved.  I learn something new every day.

I live near Washington DC.  I have passed by the Fairy Castle many times.  It is actually astonishingly beautiful.  But like some medieval and modern churches, it mostly shows me how gifts to a church are used for self-glory and not for the people they claim to help.

When we drove from Oregon through Utah to get to the Grand Canyon we stayed over night in a small town about 50 miles from Salt Lake City and couldn't find anyplace to get a cup of coffee or even tea or .  Mormons don't drink anything with caffine in it.  So we went down the freeway a ways and found a Denny's and got some coffee there.  While we were sitting there having breakfast this guy comes in with his two wives and about 12 kids.  I was so disgusted I almost tossed up my bacon and eggs. 


So I guess it was just one "seer stone" not a bunch of them.  Here's the magic rock.  It was published in the Salt Lake City Tribune 



The caption under the photo reads:

 Pictures of a smooth, brown, egg-sized rock are shown in the printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon following a news conference Tuesday, Aug. 4, 2015, at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Church History Library, in Salt Lake City. The Mormon church for the first time is publishing photos of a small sacred stone it believes founder Joseph Smith used to help translate the story that became the basis of the religion. The Mormon church is taking another step in its push to be more transparent, and is releasing more historical documents that shed light on how Joseph Smith formed the religion.   

The Mormon prophet said he was able to "translate" the "reformed Egyptian" language, using spiritual tools, including his "seer stone."

    

My very favorite Joseph Smith con job was the translation of some Egyptian hierglyphics that he thought was the sacrific of Isaac but turned out to be a common religious theme from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and had zero to do with the Bible.  Unbeknownst to Joseph Smith the Rosetta Stone, which was in the hands of language experts in France, could have easily translated it for what it was, but Joseph Smith, the conman, saw Abraham sacrificing Isaac. I'm not sure if he used the stupid rock to translate. Sometimes I wonder if Joseph Smith was re-incarnated and came back as  L. Ron Hubbard.  LOLOLOL! 

Joseph Smith (fake) "translated" the Book of Abraham, BEFORE the Rosetta Stone was found. He assumed that no one would ever be able to prove his fake translation wrong. Too bad for him, Egyptologists now know he was a philandering fake, who wanted to fuck his wife's friends.

[Minimalist]

The stone was actually 'found' in 1799 by a French officer in Napoleon's army.

Jean-François Champollion's work on the decipherment of the stone was published in 1824 in French.

Smith's bullshit translation of the scroll dates to 1835 but it is unlikely that an ignorant rube like him would have ever heard of Champollion's work in the hinterlands of America by that time.

[Bucky Ball]

The stone was actually 'found' in 1799 by a French officer in Napoleon's army.

Jean-François Champollion's work on the decipherment of the stone was published in 1824 in French.

Smith's bullshit translation of the scroll dates to 1835 but it is unlikely that an ignorant rube like him would have ever heard of Champollion's work in the hinterlands of America by that time.

Agree ... while the stone itself was translated that year, the process of working out what exactly hieroglyphs meant and how they worked, (as the Stone was not a complete cross grammar or "dictionary"), we know that it took some while before scholarly work on it would have been generally available, or anywhere complete. Champollion's Egyptian Grammar was published in French, in Paris, in 1836.

[Dancefortwo]

The stone was actually 'found' in 1799 by a French officer in Napoleon's army.

Jean-François Champollion's work on the decipherment of the stone was published in 1824 in French.

Smith's bullshit translation of the scroll dates to 1835 but it is unlikely that an ignorant rube like him would have ever heard of Champollion's work in the hinterlands of America by that time.

Exactly.  News of the Rosetta Stone first surfaced in Europe and eventually  the news came to the US but it wasn't common knowledge among farmers and folks like Joseph Smith with his head up his ass.   After Napoleon came back from Egypt interest in Ancient Egypt iconography was really popular.  Egyptian paraphernalia was floating around Europe, like pieces of ancient papyrus scrolls and stuff.   I think some traveling salesman had a few Egyptian items that found it's way over to America and was traveling through the area Joseph Smith was living who happened to see the curious writing and the rest is a historical fantasy.     

Dum-dum-dum-dum.

[Minimalist]

There's no question that Smith was full of shit.

And Stevie and the mormons are living proof that people desire to be lied to.  Continuously.

[Cavebear]

BTW, I knew that Joseph Smith looked into a hat to learn his theology (and changed it the second time), but I didn't know rocks were involved.  I learn something new every day.

I live near Washington DC.  I have passed by the Fairy Castle many times.  It is actually astonishingly beautiful.  But like some medieval and modern churches, it mostly shows me how gifts to a church are used for self-glory and not for the people they claim to help.

When we drove from Oregon through Utah to get to the Grand Canyon we stayed over night in a small town about 50 miles from Salt Lake City and couldn't find anyplace to get a cup of coffee or even tea or .  Mormons don't drink anything with caffine in it.  So we went down the freeway a ways and found a Denny's and got some coffee there.  While we were sitting there having breakfast this guy comes in with his two wives and about 12 kids.  I was so disgusted I almost tossed up my bacon and eggs. 


So I guess it was just one "seer stone" not a bunch of them.  Here's the magic rock.  It was published in the Salt Lake City Tribune 



The caption under the photo reads:

 Pictures of a smooth, brown, egg-sized rock are shown in the printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon following a news conference Tuesday, Aug. 4, 2015, at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Church History Library, in Salt Lake City. The Mormon church for the first time is publishing photos of a small sacred stone it believes founder Joseph Smith used to help translate the story that became the basis of the religion. The Mormon church is taking another step in its push to be more transparent, and is releasing more historical documents that shed light on how Joseph Smith formed the religion.   

The Mormon prophet said he was able to "translate" the "reformed Egyptian" language, using spiritual tools, including his "seer stone."

    

My very favorite Joseph Smith con job was the translation of some Egyptian hierglyphics that he thought was the sacrific of Isaac but turned out to be a common religious theme from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and had zero to do with the Bible.  Unbeknownst to Joseph Smith the Rosetta Stone, which was in the hands of language experts in France, could have easily translated it for what it was, but Joseph Smith, the conman, saw Abraham sacrificing Isaac. I'm not sure if he used the stupid rock to translate.  Sometimes I wonder if Joseph Smith was re-incarnated and came back as  L. Ron Hubbard.  LOLOLOL! 

Wow, the actual sacred rocks! And I do have to laugh. Available in any creek or stream. Much easier than climbing a mountain to get rock-inscribed Commandments or achieving "enlightenment" through years of thought.

If I went to a new place and the locals said they got "the Word of God" from some guy who stuck his head in a hat that had a few rocks in it, I would laugh out loud (and probably killed). But it really takes idiots to follow some idiotic story like that (or most others).

[pattylt]

I remember reading long ago that every religion has one ridiculous belief (they may have more) and this belief is the purity test of the religion. It’s kind of a “buy into this and you’re one of us”.

[Cranky]

I remember reading long ago that every religion has one ridiculous belief (they may have more) and this belief is the purity test of the religion.  It’s kind of a “buy into this and you’re one of us”.

The problem with Catholicism is that it has so many ridiculous beliefs!  God-man who rockets to the heavens without any visible means of propulsion.  Virgins who are immaculately conceived and then give birth to a man who was himself conceived without the benefit of a Y-chromosome.  Same virgin was then levitated into heaven ("beam me up Scotty").  God-man tortured to death then reappears alive.  Not to mention the ridiculous beliefs of the Jewish religion that are also in the Bible, like parting waters and flying prophets.

And just today on a thread on a Catholic forum I read a supposedly rational poster asking if it was OK to dilute holy water!!! Apparently according to a priest on the forum it is as long as the holy water vs regular water ratio is no less than 51% to 49%, or else it will lose its magic powers!  Catholic homeopathy at its finest!

It's 2023 already!!!

[Minimalist]

Apparently according to a priest on the forum it is as long as the holy water vs regular water ratio is no less than 51% to 49%, or else it will lose its magic powers!

What happens if you piss in it?

[pattylt]

Apparently according to a priest on the forum it is as long as the holy water vs regular water ratio is no less than 51% to 49%, or else it will lose its magic powers!

What happens if you piss in it?

Just to go above 49%…

[airportkid]

What happens if you piss in it?

Therein the gigantic flaw in the "logic" of homeopathy, which asserts that the ultra-diluted water of a potion "remembers" the "healing" characteristics of the long washed away active ingredient molecules.  If homeopathy depends on the "memory", there is no molecule of water on earth that was not at some point a component of urine, which would be "memorized" just as much as the "memory" of the imagined active ingredient.  Each molecule of water would "remember" the characteristics of every molecule of substances is was part of since the origin of the water molecule, which across 4.5 billion years, would probably include not just some organism's urine, but the urine of every species of organism that ever existed, to say nothing about the infinite variety of other noxious compounds it would have also been a constituent of.

[Minimalist]

Can you imagine the yellow cloud that appears behind a blue whale?

[Dānu]

I stopped reading at small cracks.