The Sword of Christ

[Minimalist]

 I won't be here long as I know my kind is the agitator for most.

More like a chew toy.

[Charlie24]

I like the contradiction in the two genealogies of Jesus.  No, one isn’t Mary’s.  They both say Joseph is the father (a problem in itself).

So which is right and which is wrong…or, most likely they both are wrong.

This would be a good subject for a new thread. I might do that later.

They are both correct. The different lines have to do with the Law of Moses through marriage in Joseph's case.

I will put together a thread to explain this in the next few days.

[Charlie24]

That's not what the Scripture says! It's always amazed me how some will believe old wives tales and completely ignore what's written in the Word.

That's not old wives tale anymore than the rest of scripture. We do know who wrote the Book of Revelation. It was John the Elder from the island of Patmos which was known for it's psychotropic mushrooms and their use for prophetic visions and soothsaying. Yeah, according to those information and the very content of the Book of Revelation, it's the description of a shroom trip. I'm surprised you, who pride yourself in knowing the Scriptures in and out, didn't knew about this information. 

Yes, and some of these so-called churches are a mockery before God. Whose end is also predicted in Scripture.

Or it you so-called church that is a mockery before God for denying the prophetic visions brought on and bestowed upon his chosen... You know they don't agree with you and that their traditions have a strong basis in early Christendom. Jesus himself went into the desert where he had hallucinations brought on by exposure meant to test his faith and his nature. Hallucinations, visions and dreams are common themes and means of divine communication in Scriptures.

Oh my goodness! I seriously doubt that the majority of Atheists would even agree with this garb.

[Charlie24]

Anybody,
at what number of negative points do I get the axe, I'm really getting up there.

Is that what those point are for? In all my years of being on forums never seen the likes of negative points.

Oh there is no limits to negative points. You can't get banned for being disliked. You can only be banned for spamming threads, proselytizing (this is your most likely account if you refuse to engage with people unless it's on your term or participate in non-religious conversations), bullying other members or for creating multiple accounts (the most common ban offense). In general, moderation is going to warn you at least once to change your behavior before banning you. I think the record of dislike was around -14 or something like that. The negative rep prevents you from rating other people and shows to other your standing within the community. If you click on the number, you can read the comment as to why you have been given a bad, neutral or positive point.

Isn't there two sides to the "if you refuse to engage with people unless it's on your terms" going on here?

Taking part in discussion does not mean one has to give up their beliefs to join the crowd.

I know I'm the outsider here, but I'm not giving in anymore than you are. 

If this is the case, go ahead and axe me now rather than later! Of course as the OP points out, oil and water does not mix.

So if everyone agrees they don't want me, I'll leave with no hard feelings. Just say the word.

[Minimalist]

They are both correct. 

They are both horseshit.  They were created independently by the authors of "Luke" and "Matthew" to make up for the lack of any birth narrative in the original "Mark."  At least we know that the authors did not conspire with each other.

But by all means...demonstate your mastery of the useless xtian talent of apologetics in which you make up excuses for the glaring errors in your so-called " scriptures."

[Charlie24]

They are both correct. 

They are both horseshit.  They were created independently by the authors of "Luke" and "Matthew" to make up for the lack of any birth narrative in the original "Mark."  At least we know that the authors did not conspire with each other.

But by all means...demonstate your mastery of the useless xtian talent of apologetics in which you make up excuses for the glaring errors in your so-called " scriptures."

Believe whatever you like, I prefer believing the Scripture. But that's where we part ways.

[airportkid]

... I can show him the way. I can show him what this Christian life is all about ...

So here you hang out in a meat store where people come into the store for meat and you think some of them are in the store because they're curious about veggies?

You fail to realize most people here already know more about veggies than you do and have found more satisfying fare in poultry, beef, pork, lamb, and fish - dishes you know nothing about and disdain to even learn about.

There is NOTHING (I'll repeat that, NOTHING) you can say here that we haven't heard a thousand times already from others like you who think their view is somehow special.

We have MUCH to offer you, should you develop a genuine curiosity, but so far you haven't shown any interest in why we disbelieve in deities.

You need to consider that should anyone discover an actual proof deities exist, an irrefutable proof, it would win the Nobel Prize and win worldwide acclaim.  Your pathetic recitations of moth-eaten thousand year old fantasies long discredited are so distant from that possibility they're not even in the same universe.

[Charlie24]

... I can show him the way. I can show him what this Christian life is all about ...

So here you hang out in a meat store where people come into the store for meat and you think some of them are in the store because they're curious about veggies?

You fail to realize most people here already know more about veggies than you do and have found more satisfying fare in poultry, beef, pork, lamb, and fish - dishes you know nothing about and disdain to even learn about.

There is NOTHING (I'll repeat that, NOTHING) you can say here that we haven't heard a thousand times already from others like you who think their view is somehow special.

We have MUCH to offer you, should you develop a genuine curiosity, but so far you haven't shown any interest in why we disbelieve in deities.

You need to consider that should anyone discover an actual proof deities exist, an irrefutable proof, it would win the Nobel Prize and win worldwide acclaim.  Your pathetic recitations of moth-eaten thousand year old fantasies long discredited are so distant from that possibility they're not even in the same universe.

As I have said in another post, He has already given you visual proof of His existence in creation.

You refuse to believe, so there you are, still guessing at the first cause. 

Jesus Christ is the first cause of existence, but I'm speaking into the wind here.

[Charlie24]

It's past midnight here in EST. I'll catch you guys tomorrow if I'm still a member.

May God bless us with His Grace. Goodnight all!

[Minimalist]

They are both horseshit.  They were created independently by the authors of "Luke" and "Matthew" to make up for the lack of any birth narrative in the original "Mark."  At least we know that the authors did not conspire with each other.

But by all means...demonstate your mastery of the useless xtian talent of apologetics in which you make up excuses for the glaring errors in your so-called " scriptures."

Believe whatever you like, I prefer believing the Scripture. But that's where we part ways.

Yes, I've got that.  It is why I have dismissed you as a crackpot.

[Szuchow]

For the word of God is quick,

Actually, it is the word of some Greek-speaking scribes who lived long after the events they claim to be describing.  You are far too quick to accept what you are told.

Become a little more discerning.

Pigs learning to fly are more probable than this troll becoming more discerning.

[Dancefortwo]

Paul said it in 2 Corinthians 5:7,

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight"

Abraham said that he had his eyes on a heavenly abode, this world is not my home.

So it is with the Christian! We are just passing though this place.

We live our lives by faith in Christ that what He did on that Cross at Calvary, sets us free from sin, from the punishment of sin, and grants us a home with Him.

The Atheist lives this life by sight, if he can't see it, it ain't there.

Two different worlds we live in! So hard to get along.

Christ said that He came not to bring peace, but a sword. Walking this life, some by faith and some by sight, is the sword!

Matthew 10:34

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Ummm......welp......here's a quote from your introduction...

"I don't plan to preach "

Yet this is what your doing, you're preaching.  

It don't think Christians understand what preaching is.  Quoting sections from the gospels is preaching.  Perhaps if you had started off with a quote from....oh....I donno....Monty Python or Mark Twain or something, it wouldn't be construed as preaching.  

Just a suggestion.

[Dancefortwo]

Why didn’t god write this stuff?  Heck, why didn’t Jesus?  It’s soooo important for us that he left all this important knowledge to unknown Hebrews and later, Greeks. Why did god allow contradictions in his Bible?  Why did he allow geography errors and Jewish cultural errors?  Why were there no witnesses to his actual rising moment?  Why so many conflicting stories?  Why can’t we even know which genealogy of the two are correct?  Yeah, I got questions…

Some of your questions are in error.

AS to why God didn't write the Scriptures is the biggest error I see. God the Holy Spirit wrote the Scriptures.

God chose men of His choice to write under the inspiration of the Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Okie-dokie.  Here we go.

You DO realize that the gospels were written by anonymous writers who never met Jesus?   Apparently you've been told otherwise.  

Those four text were written 40 to 90 years after Jesus died and are not eyewitness accounts.  They don't even claim to be eyewitness accounts. They are written in third person, in a distant voice.  The names were attached to the anonymous text by Irenaeus in around 170 CE.  He chose 4 out of around 30 other Jesus stories because they were the most popularly read in the houses of Christians....at least by someone who could actually read...and because to Irenaeus they represented the "four winds that blow and the four corners of the earth".   He didn't know who wrote them either.   Anyway,  that's why there are four and not 7 or 8 or 15 Jesus stories.  

Neither Peter nor John could have written what was later attributed to them because they were both illiterate fisherman and the text is written in an aristocratic style of Greek that only highly educated Greeks would have been able to compose.  They couldn't have dictated it either because the Galilee area,  where they were both from, was a monolingual area that only spoke a common type of Aramaic.    By the way, illiteracy was around 97% in the Palestenian area in the 1st century.

The first gospel written, later called "Mark", did not contain a post-resurrected Jesus in it. The last 8 lines of Mark were written and added by church officials (probably by Eusibius in the 4th century CE)  so it would match the other three gospels.  So the first gospel written closest to the death of Jesus does not have him being seen by anyone after he's put in the tomb.  Let that sink in. 

Matthew and Luke copied word for word around 76% of their text from Mark.   And it's not just the Jesus sayings, it's many passages that they copy.  Why the hell would an eyewitness copy word for word from someone elses papers.  They would compose their version which would be different from the other text.  The vast majority of scholars realize whoever wrote these stories are not eyewitnesses. 

It's 12 midnight here so I'll continue this tomorrow morning.   Later! 

[Gwaithmir]

@Charlie24

Of course, it’s easy for us with our 21st Century, materialistic minds to dismiss the Bible as a load of rubbish. But in the actual analysis, that is exactly what the Bible turns out to be---a load of rubbish! It is a book of nonsensical, fantastic stories about talking animals, talking bushes, mythical creatures, people rising from the dead, magic and pseudo-history. It is the creation of ignorant, fallible men, reflecting the prejudices, superstitions, bad theology and fears of the times in which it was written. It promotes slavery, ethnic cleansing, race prejudice, wars of conquest, the subjugation of women, child abuse and genital mutilation. It promotes the worship and celebration of a god who is little more than an egotistical, homicidal, fear-mongering tyrant. It is a book which any reasonable, intellectually honest, and intelligent person should heartily dismiss as bad fiction.

[Charlie24]

Some of your questions are in error.

AS to why God didn't write the Scriptures is the biggest error I see. God the Holy Spirit wrote the Scriptures.

God chose men of His choice to write under the inspiration of the Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Okie-dokie.  Here we go.

You DO realize that the gospels were written by anonymous writers who never met Jesus?   Apparently you've been told otherwise.  

Those four text were written 40 to 90 years after Jesus died and are not eyewitness accounts.  They don't even claim to be eyewitness accounts. They are written in third person, in a distant voice.  The names were attached to the anonymous text by Irenaeus in around 170 CE.  He chose 4 out of around 30 other Jesus stories because they were the most popularly read in the houses of Christians....at least by someone who could actually read...and because to Irenaeus they represented the "four winds that blow and the four corners of the earth".   He didn't know who wrote them either.   Anyway,  that's why there are four and not 7 or 8 or 15 Jesus stories.  

Neither Peter nor John could have written what was later attributed to them because they were both illiterate fisherman and the text is written in an aristocratic style of Greek that only highly educated Greeks would have been able to compose.  They couldn't have dictated it either because the Galilee area,  where they were both from, was a monolingual area that only spoke a common type of Aramaic.    By the way, illiteracy was around 97% in the Palestenian area in the 1st century.

The first gospel written, later called "Mark", did not contain a post-resurrected Jesus in it. The last 8 lines of Mark were written and added by church officials (probably by Eusibius in the 4th century CE)  so it would match the other three gospels.  So the first gospel written closest to the death of Jesus does not have him being seen by anyone after he's put in the tomb.  Let that sink in. 

Matthew and Luke copied word for word around 76% of their text from Mark.   And it's not just the Jesus sayings, it's many passages that they copy.  Why the hell would an eyewitness copy word for word from someone elses papers.  They would compose their version which would be different from the other text.  The vast majority of scholars realize whoever wrote these stories are not eyewitnesses. 

It's 12 midnight here so I'll continue this tomorrow morning.   Later! 

it's posts like this that cause the Atheists to be virtually illiterates Biblically speaking.

Most will never read it for themselves but will believe this junk you pass for truth.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen by God to actually write it down.

God have mercy on us!

[Szuchow]

 It is a book which any reasonable, intellectually honest, and intelligent person should heartily dismiss as bad fiction.

That's exactly why christians have such difficulties with dismissing it.

[Gwaithmir]

Most will never read [the Bible] for themselves but will believe this junk you pass for truth.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen by God to actually write it down.

God have mercy on us!

Wrong!

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

Erú Ilúvatar is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen to actually write it down. Checkmate Christians.

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24

Of course, it’s easy for us with our 21st Century, materialistic minds to dismiss the Bible as a load of rubbish. But in the actual analysis, that is exactly what the Bible turns out to be---a load of rubbish! It is a book of nonsensical, fantastic stories about talking animals, talking bushes, mythical creatures, people rising from the dead, magic and pseudo-history. It is the creation of ignorant, fallible men, reflecting the prejudices, superstitions, bad theology and fears of the times in which it was written. It promotes slavery, ethnic cleansing, race prejudice, wars of conquest, the subjugation of women, child abuse and genital mutilation. It promotes the worship and celebration of a god who is little more than an egotistical, homicidal, fear-mongering tyrant. It is a book which any reasonable, intellectually honest, and intelligent person should heartily dismiss as bad fiction.

Yes, the Scripture will seem to be fiction if one is not properly trained in the spiritual aspect it contains.

Sceptics have a field day with the Bible, not realizing what they are reading.

This is why the apostle Paul said this in 2 Timothy 2:15,

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Many of us dedicate our lives to "rightly dividing the Word of truth."

It requires a knowledge of "dispensations" the different periods of time that God dealt differently with man according to the knowledge he possessed at that particular time. Of course, we now are at the peak of this knowledge by having the entire Scripture to review and learn from, which many in dispensation of past did not have.

[Szuchow]

You DO realize that the gospels were written by anonymous writers who never met Jesus?   Apparently you've been told otherwise.

You could talk to piss stain on some forgotten wall and it would be more capable of understanding what you wrote than this dumb troll.

[Charlie24]

Most will never read [the Bible] for themselves but will believe this junk you pass for truth.

The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen by God to actually write it down.

God have mercy on us!

Wrong!

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

Erú Ilúvatar is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen to actually write it down. Checkmate Christians.

I see you're into Mid-East mythology. You might want to cut back on those Lord of the Rings series.

[Gwaithmir]

Wrong!

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

Erú Ilúvatar is the author of Scripture regardless of who was chosen to actually write it down. Checkmate Christians.

I see you're into Mid-East mythology. You might want to cut back on those Lord of the Rings series.

Wrong! "The Silmarillion" shows the influence of many sources, including the Finnish epic Kalevala, Greek mythology in the lost island of Atlantis (as Númenor) and the Olympian gods (in the shape of the Valar, though these also resemble the Norse Æsir). You might want to cut back on your biblical mythology.

[Charlie24]

I see you're into Mid-East mythology. You might want to cut back on those Lord of the Rings series.

Wrong! "The Silmarillion" shows the influence of many sources, including the Finnish epic Kalevala, Greek mythology in the lost island of Atlantis (as Númenor) and the Olympian gods (in the shape of the Valar, though these also resemble the Norse Æsir). You might want to cut back on your biblical mythology.

OK! Sometime you just have to agree to disagree.

[Charlie24]

You DO realize that the gospels were written by anonymous writers who never met Jesus?   Apparently you've been told otherwise.

You could talk to piss stain on some forgotten wall and it would be more capable of understanding what you wrote than this dumb troll.

Seriously, I didn't come here to turn everyone's world upside down. I had hoped we could discuss our differences without freaking out.

Why so much hatred? There's no need for it.

[Szuchow]

You could talk to piss stain on some forgotten wall and it would be more capable of understanding what you wrote than this dumb troll.

Seriously, I didn't come here to turn everyone's world upside down. I had hoped we could discuss our differences without freaking out.

Why so much hatred? There's no need for it.

You came here to shit on the carpet like countless trolls before you. You're neither original nor smart or even amusing.

Hatred? Mere dislike of indoctrinated fools but christians love to feel persecuted I guess.

[Charlie24]

Seriously, I didn't come here to turn everyone's world upside down. I had hoped we could discuss our differences without freaking out.

Why so much hatred? There's no need for it.

You came here to shit on the carpet like countless trolls before you. You're neither original nor smart or even amusing.

Hatred? Mere dislike of indoctrinated fools but christians love to feel persecuted I guess.

This is not persecution! I can tell you all about true persecution in the name of Christ.

But being on an Atheist forum is not persecution, far from it!