For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and as knowledge grows, grief increases.

[Szuchow]

Do you agree with the title or think that reverse is true? 

Increasing knowledge about specific subjects certainly saddened me from time to time but I think that real grief does not come from being aware but from painful realization that others neither know nor care.

As a side note supposedly self-reported wisdom and happiness aren't in conflict.

[Cavebear]

Do you agree with the title or think that reverse is true? 

Increasing knowledge about specific subjects certainly saddened me from time to time but I think that real grief does not come from being aware but from painful realization that others neither know nor care.

As a side note supposedly self-reported wisdom and happiness aren't in conflict.

I think that grief comes mostly from unexpected losses out of your control.  For example, both my parents died old.  I could accept that without great grief.  It was expected.  But one of my cats died at 12 suddenly in the night.  That was not expected and still upsets me.  It's not a "people vs pet" thing, it's the surprise perhaps. I miss my parents, but they were in their 90's so I expected it.  Maybe "grief" is unresolved feelings with some sense of blame involved.  Does that make sense?

[Gwaithmir]

If it wasn't for an increase in knowledge, I wouldn't be an atheist today. 

[Szuchow]

If it wasn't for an increase in knowledge, I wouldn't be an atheist today. 

But would you be happier or not? 

[Gwaithmir]

If it wasn't for an increase in knowledge, I wouldn't be an atheist today. 

But would you be happier or not? 

I doubt it. As a Catholic, my life was filled with anxiety and guilt.

[Dom]

I would substitute "grief" with disappointment. Then I would agree, the more I know, the more disappointed I am in humanity.

It doesn't affect my happiness; I base my happiness on the small pleasures anyone can find anywhere. A pretty bird, a flower, a ray of sunshine... never fail to elicit happiness if one knows how to pay attention.

[Dānu]

I'd say it's not a question of absolute rates but rather one of relative rates. And then, who knows. While grief deepens with wisdom, so does joy.

[Alan V]

Do you agree with the title or think that reverse is true? 

Increasing knowledge about specific subjects certainly saddened me from time to time but I think that real grief does not come from being aware but from painful realization that others neither know nor care.

There are pluses and minuses to everything in different proportions.  However, I don't think wisdom necessarily entails sorrow.  The way I understand wisdom, it typically entails a certain sense of detachment.

I would much rather have the problems of being aware than the obliviousness of being unaware.  If anything, I am sad about my past insensitive behaviors.

[Szuchow]

But would you be happier or not? 

I doubt it. As a Catholic, my life was filled with anxiety and guilt.

It couldn't be filled with happiness as you wouldn't have the need for church then.

Seems that knowledge can increase happiness.

[Szuchow]

There are pluses and minuses to everything in different proportions.  However, I don't think wisdom necessarily entails sorrow.  The way I understand wisdom, it typically entails a certain sense of detachment.

I wouldn't name myself wise as it smacks of hubris but being at least somewhat well read I can't say that knowledge I gained brought me much happiness. If anything I derive satisfaction from knowing and experience despair as others despite having eyes to see and ears to hear are blind and deaf.

I would much rather have the problems of being aware than the obliviousness of being unaware.  If anything, I am sad about my past insensitive behaviors.

Clowns I work with seems to be pretty happy in their ignorance though it must be said that ignorance is apparent only to outside observer*, not to them who deem themselves wise. I however wouldn't switch places with them (impossibility of unlearning things aside) as for me knowledge it is own reward regardless of it bringing sorrow or joy.


*Not being able to differentiate between EU and NATO for example.

[Alan V]

There are pluses and minuses to everything in different proportions.  However, I don't think wisdom necessarily entails sorrow.  The way I understand wisdom, it typically entails a certain sense of detachment.

I wouldn't name myself wise as it smacks of hubris but being at least somewhat well read I can't say that knowledge I gained brought me much happiness. If anything I derive satisfaction from knowing and experience despair as others despite having eyes to see and ears to hear are blind and deaf.

The wisdom literature which I studied for so many years was religious or mystical in nature.  Of course we atheists dispute that such traditions are really wise.  So for that reason alone we have to be careful using the word "wisdom."

The way I understand wisdom these days is something like "knowing the problems with human perceptions."  If you know the problems, you can avoid them most of the time and also sympathize with others who still struggle with them.  I therefore don't see wisdom as feeling superior to others, since arrogance is one of those perceptual problems.  We are all inescapably human and subject to the same tendencies.

So different definitions mean different answers.  You asked what I thought, so I assumed my own definitions.

[airportkid]

Since knowledge is power I cannot fathom a mindset that would find despair in increased awareness and understanding.  Here's a rough analogy:  you're in a room with no windows and no light.  The walls are covered with soft pillows, but sharp spikes stick out.  Blind in the darkness, your encounters with the wall will always be a surprise, sometimes pleasant, other times painful, but always a surprise because there's no way to see what you're going to bang up against.

Now, turn on the light.

The quantity and sharpness of the spikes revealed may be disheartening in that there're more than you supposed, but now you can see the damn things, and take steps to stay clear, and even try to remove some of them.  So, while the knowledge is disappointing in the degree it disillusions you, it gives you the power to direct your own fate, and being able to direct your own fate is, to my mind, the foundation of finding happiness.

That said I still don't want to know anything about how hot dogs are made.  Some things in life are best never found out. 

[Szuchow]

The wisdom literature which I studied for so many years was religious or mystical in nature.  Of course we atheists dispute that such traditions are really wise.  So for that reason alone we have to be careful using the word "wisdom."

Hardly. As far as I am concerned religious claptrap does not have any bearing on my usage of word wisdom. 

The way I understand wisdom these days is something like "knowing the problems with human perceptions."  If you know the problems, you can avoid them most of the time and also sympathize with others who still struggle with them.  I therefore don't see wisdom as feeling superior to others.  We are all inescapably human.

I see those who are wise as superior to dumb fucks. We may all be human but some are trash lacking not only in knowledge or ability to use it but also morals.

So different definitions mean different answers.  You asked what I thought, so I assumed my own definitions.

That's great. I suppose.

[Szuchow]

Since knowledge is power I cannot fathom a mindset that would find despair in increased awareness and understanding.  Here's a rough analogy:  you're in a room with no windows and no light.  The walls are covered with soft pillows, but sharp spikes stick out.  Blind in the darkness, your encounters with the wall will always be a surprise, sometimes pleasant, other times painful, but always a surprise because there's no way to see what you're going to bang up against.

Now, turn on the light.

The quantity and sharpness of the spikes revealed may be disheartening in that there're more than you supposed, but now you can see the damn things, and take steps to stay clear, and even try to remove some of them.  So, while the knowledge is disappointing in the degree it disillusions you, it gives you the power to direct your own fate, and being able to direct your own fate is, to my mind, the foundation of finding happiness.

That said I still don't want to know anything about how hot dogs are made.  Some things in life are best never found out. 

One might get power to direct (partially) one own fate thanks to knowledge but knowledge also means awareness that one fate is tied to circumstances of one birth, social and cultural capital (and obviously simple capital too) and multitude of other factions beyond one control. In this case knowing more hardly helps, though it has to be said neither it does bring woe.

[Dom]

Wisdom and knowledge are not interchangeable. They are totally different things.

[pattylt]

These 5 qualities came up for wisdom.  I’m not sure I know or have met anyone that has all five.  

• Creativity
  
  
• Curiosity
  
  
• Judgment
  
  
• Love of Learning
  
  
• Perspective
  

I definitely am not creative.  I do well in copying others in creative endeavors but fail when I try on my own.
Curiosity, I have in spades.  I’ve always been extremely curious and have gone down many rabbit holes trying to satisfy it.
Judgment is a bit hard to self reflect on.  I try not to be judgmental but I don’t think humans can escape this trait completely.
Love of learning goes with curiosity in my view.  I’m a life long learner jumping from topic to topic my whole life.
Finally, perspective.  To me, this is where experience comes in and it’s time dependent.  The perspective of youth tends to be narrow and broadens as we age.  I’m not sure we can ever know how wide our perspective is.

• Do these traits complete a definition of wisdom?   I tend to also think an ability to gather information and come to a rational decision based on it fits in there somewhere.  I’m very much a realist that demands information in order to make an informed decision but, garbage in, garbage out plays into how wise a decision I make. Also, striving to be better.  Better decisions, better ideas, better behavior and better empathy.  It’s all a work in process.
  

[Charlie24]

Do you agree with the title or think that reverse is true? 

Increasing knowledge about specific subjects certainly saddened me from time to time but I think that real grief does not come from being aware but from painful realization that others neither know nor care.

As a side note supposedly self-reported wisdom and happiness aren't in conflict.

That quote comes from the Scripture, Ecclesiastes 1:18.

Solomon, the king of Israel, who had everything a man could possibly have is speaking of the vanities in the world, "empty nothings."

All that he had done, all the wisdom and knowledge he had gained was vanity without God. The only worth in wisdom and knowledge comes from God, not the things of the world. Solomon sums up the vanities of this world, and the true wisdom and knowledge in Ecc. 2:26,

"For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit."

[rocinantexyz]

Solomon, the king of Israel, who had everything a man could possibly have...

I'm a man and I have things that Solomon certainly didn't have (power-tools for example).

[Dexta]

I now have knowledge of the excellence of our local curry house's lamb bhuna - how my happiness has increased!

[Charlie24]

Solomon, the king of Israel, who had everything a man could possibly have...

I'm a man and I have things that Solomon certainly didn't have (power-tools for example).

If Solomon were placed in our economy, the richest man in the world would be poor compared to him.

I think he could afford power tools if wanted.

[rocinantexyz]

If Solomon were placed in our economy...

Sure and if my feces was made out of gold, I'd be extremely wealthy. In the world where I live: feces isn't gold and Solomon did not participate in the modern economy.

[Charlie24]

If Solomon were placed in our economy...

Sure and if my feces was made out of gold, I'd be extremely wealthy. In the world where I live: feces isn't gold and Solomon did not participate in the modern economy.

The Scripture says that Solomon had silver piled up in Israel as the stones piled up around the cities.

He had gold mines in several other countries that was brought to him for tribute.

The man had 700 wives and 300 mistresses. Imagine what it took to provide just for that.

I think it would be safe to say that Solomon was the richest man this world has ever seen.

[rocinantexyz]

I think it would be safe to say that Solomon was the richest man this world has ever seen.

I'm super skeptical of that statement. For starters: how much richer was Solomon than George Washington King Arthur? Could you please supply a natural number and a unit? I'd also be curious to learn which natural number and unit was assigned to Arthur (to contribute to his richness) simply because of his ownership of Excalibur? I'm would guess that owning a magic sword makes you super wealthy.

[Charlie24]

I think it would be safe to say that Solomon was the richest man this world has ever seen.

I'm super skeptical of that statement. For starters: how much richer was Solomon than George Washington King Arthur? Could you please supply a natural number and a unit?

No, I'm pretty sure a "natural number and a unit" is out of my reach.

Just going by the Scripture. But that seems to be the problem. I'm the only one who believes and takes from the Scripture here.

So we can't help but see things in a different light.

[rocinantexyz]

No, I'm pretty sure a "natural number and a unit" is out of my reach.

Perhaps you shouldn't say something is the largest, heaviest, tallest, dumbest, richest, etc; if you don't know how to count those elements, or even have a unit to measure them.