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Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
#1

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
This is where theism leads to :
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/aqsa-...-sacrifice
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#2

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
Time to unleash PETA on those primitive fuckheads with their stupid hats.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#3

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
Yup. Soon as I read the title, I knew it had to be my people. 

Who else would it be?
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#4

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-09-2023, 10:34 PM)Aliza Wrote: Yup. Soon as I read the title, I knew it had to be my people. 

Who else would it be?

It's very sad.
As Martin Buber (Jewish philosopher) wrote in "Good and Evil", Part 2, "your people" took the Babylonian concept of Babylonian
"chaos" to a new height in Genesis. It has (to my knowledge) never been repeated again until Paul Tillich in the 20th Century, .
in "The Courage To Be". Your "people" got it as no one else ever did, what a moral imperative was all about: chaos vs order.
I have THE utmost respect for them for that. Too bad what others did to it.
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#5

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
Didn't stop them from murdering the goats, though.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#6

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#7

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-09-2023, 10:34 PM)Aliza Wrote: Yup. Soon as I read the title, I knew it had to be my people. 

Who else would it be?

I really hope that you aren't actually claiming those ultra-orthodox nincompoops as "your people". If I read that right "your people" were the ones urging sanity and restraint.
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#8

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
.
(04-10-2023, 02:07 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(04-09-2023, 10:34 PM)Aliza Wrote: Yup. Soon as I read the title, I knew it had to be my people. 

Who else would it be?

I really hope that you aren't actually claiming those ultra-orthodox nincompoops as "your people". If I read that right "your people" were the ones urging sanity and restraint.

The weird uncle you only see twice a year and who your own household don't get along well with is still family.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#9

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-10-2023, 02:07 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:
(04-09-2023, 10:34 PM)Aliza Wrote: Yup. Soon as I read the title, I knew it had to be my people. 

Who else would it be?

I really hope that you aren't actually claiming those ultra-orthodox nincompoops as "your people". If I read that right "your people" were the ones urging sanity and restraint.

Yeah, they're still my people. We don't get to disown people because we don't like their behavior. We have to address the behaviors because disowning isn't an option. Nod
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#10

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
Day after day, millons of animals are going to their final destination. Which is the slaughterhouse. I bet, countless lambs have been killed these days to fill some bellies.

So I find it just a bit hypocritical to be outraged over a single goat. Chances are, with jews as well as muslims, these animals led a better life before their doom, than our's being destined to stock the supermarket shelves.
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#11

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-11-2023, 11:25 PM)abaris Wrote: Day after day, millons of animals are going to their final destination. Which is the slaughterhouse. I bet, countless lambs have been killed these days to fill some bellies.

Their slaughter produces food; religious slaughter inflicts cruelty pointlessly and, worse, promotes the notion that killing an animal will convey favor upon humanity, or worse yet, some small portion of humanity and screw all the rest of mankind.
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#12

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
We had lamb last Sunday and it was delicious....but I never wasted a single second thinking that yahweh ir any other asinine god was loving the smell of burned flesh.

The reason why assholes do things is a legitimate topic of discussion/disapprobation.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#13

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
I eat meat. I know where it comes from. In my younger days, I hunted . I butchered an entire deer in the garage once. I know that most animals we eat (I'm fondest of other mammals, but chicken and shrimp are good)) are a whole lot like us. Hunting is not a very kind way for a mammal to die. I've seen deer take 20 minutes...

So I do not come to this discussion innocently. As an omnivore (and I know some of you aren't), I take pleasure in the taste of meat. I also consider a healthy part of our diet along with veggies and fruits. A few ounces of meat, colorful veggies, a salad, and fruit after is just fine with me.

But I do understand cruelty, distress, and pain and know some other animals feel it. So while I'm not ever going to go vegan voluntarily, I want better lives and deaths for our meat food animals. A decent cage-free life is a start. A sudden surprising quick and painless death would the the best end.

I don't know how to do the last, but we can approach it as closely as possible. "Hey cow, look at that squirrel over there, BLAM!"

I bet the next Big Thing on meat packages is "humanely killed" (or something more marketable meaning the same).
Watson, you fool, someone has stolen our tent!
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#14

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-10-2023, 04:25 AM)Reltzik Wrote: The weird uncle you only see twice a year and who your own household don't get along well with is still family.

I can choose both friends and family. I can drop the blade on anyone. Who and where I come from is not to whom or where I belong. Provenance is not the path forward. We each chart our own courses.

The weird uncle gets the blade, as did the racists and toxic-religious in my own family. My family does not own me.
Use vigorous English.
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#15

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:00 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I eat meat.  I know where it comes from.  In my younger days, I hunted .  I butchered an entire deer in the garage once.  I know that most animals we eat (I'm fondest of other mammals, but chicken and shrimp are good)) are a whole lot like us.  Hunting is not a very kind way for a mammal to die.  I've seen deer take 20 minutes...

So I do not come to this discussion innocently.  As an omnivore (and I know some of you aren't), I take pleasure in the taste of meat.  I also consider a healthy part of our diet along with veggies and fruits.  A few ounces of meat, colorful veggies, a salad, and fruit after is just fine with me.

But I do understand cruelty, distress, and pain and know some other animals feel it.  So while I'm not ever going to go vegan voluntarily, I want better lives and deaths for our meat food animals.  A decent cage-free life is a start.  A sudden surprising quick and painless death would the the best end.

I don't know how to do the last, but we can approach it as closely as possible.  "Hey cow, look at that squirrel over there, BLAM!"

I bet the next Big Thing on meat packages is "humanely killed" (or something more marketable meaning the same).

When we had pigs here, they had an acre to roam. They had a lot of fun with a football and a tire, and they built a straw igloo in their house. They forged in addition to their feed. They were tame. Then they got big and lazy and greedy and pushy, so the butcher came by. He would walk up next to one and shoot it right into the head. It didn't bother the other pigs, since they had a habit of just plopping on the ground and falling asleep in the sun. (Hence the saying: "dead pig in the sunshine", they looked like they just had a heart attack or something). 

Anyway, they had a wonderful life and an easy death, devoid of fear and pain. That's better than most of us get.

And I haven't had really good pork since. The flavor was unbeatable.
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#16

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Dom Wrote:
(04-12-2023, 02:00 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I eat meat.  I know where it comes from.  In my younger days, I hunted .  I butchered an entire deer in the garage once.  I know that most animals we eat (I'm fondest of other mammals, but chicken and shrimp are good)) are a whole lot like us.  Hunting is not a very kind way for a mammal to die.  I've seen deer take 20 minutes...

So I do not come to this discussion innocently.  As an omnivore (and I know some of you aren't), I take pleasure in the taste of meat.  I also consider a healthy part of our diet along with veggies and fruits.  A few ounces of meat, colorful veggies, a salad, and fruit after is just fine with me.

But I do understand cruelty, distress, and pain and know some other animals feel it.  So while I'm not ever going to go vegan voluntarily, I want better lives and deaths for our meat food animals.  A decent cage-free life is a start.  A sudden surprising quick and painless death would the the best end.

I don't know how to do the last, but we can approach it as closely as possible.  "Hey cow, look at that squirrel over there, BLAM!"

I bet the next Big Thing on meat packages is "humanely killed" (or something more marketable meaning the same).

When we had pigs here, they had an acre to roam. They had a lot of fun with a football and a tire, and they built a straw igloo in their house. They forged in addition to their feed. They were tame. Then they got big and lazy and greedy and pushy, so the butcher came by. He would walk up next to one and shoot it right into the head. It didn't bother the other pigs, since they had a habit of just plopping on the ground and falling asleep in the sun. (Hence the saying: "dead pig in the sunshine", they looked like they just had a heart attack or something). 

Anyway, they had a wonderful life and an easy death, devoid of fear and pain. That's better than most of us get.

And I haven't had really good pork since. The flavor was unbeatable.

I never heard the phrase "dead pig in the sunshine" before, but it is great! My Dad used to say "even a blind pig can find an acorn" (meaning mostly luck, but they do have a great sense of smell). Also, pork flavor (like bee honey) depends on what they are given to eat. Pigs given marigolds to eat will taste differently than pigs fed on corncobs than pigs fed in pastures (free-ranging). Sadly, pork packages never seem to mention that where I shop.

Though that causes me to wonder... If I went to a 5 star restaurant (like that would ever happen) and requested a plain pork chop (without being attacked by the chef), would it come with a life-history?

Waiter: "Her name was Marie Tranvold de Pois and she came from a free-range farm where she ate truffles and pure wheat in the company of her friend Suzzette and lover Clementine. She died in her sleep at her prime weight while surrounded by her loving piglets (beyond weaning stage of course) and watched over (in sorrow) by the grief-stricken humans who cared for her all her life. Would you like that cooked to 150F or are you daring fate tonight?"

Diner: "Do you have a chicken without a history"?

ROFL2
Watson, you fool, someone has stolen our tent!
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#17

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-11-2023, 11:25 PM)abaris Wrote: Day after day, millons of animals are going to their final destination. Which is the slaughterhouse. I bet, countless lambs have been killed these days to fill some bellies.

So I find it just a bit hypocritical to be outraged over a single goat. Chances are, with jews as well as muslims, these animals led a better life before their doom, than our's being destined to stock the supermarket shelves.

No one is outraged over the stupid goat.
The point is the "two cultures", modern humans in 2023, are still killing each other over
ancient religious nonsense.
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#18

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:50 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Dom Wrote: When we had pigs here, they had an acre to roam. They had a lot of fun with a football and a tire, and they built a straw igloo in their house. They forged in addition to their feed. They were tame. Then they got big and lazy and greedy and pushy, so the butcher came by. He would walk up next to one and shoot it right into the head. It didn't bother the other pigs, since they had a habit of just plopping on the ground and falling asleep in the sun. (Hence the saying: "dead pig in the sunshine", they looked like they just had a heart attack or something). 

Anyway, they had a wonderful life and an easy death, devoid of fear and pain. That's better than most of us get.

And I haven't had really good pork since. The flavor was unbeatable.

I never heard the phrase "dead pig in the sunshine" before, but it is great!  My Dad used to say "even a blind pig can find an acorn" (meaning mostly luck, but they do have a great sense of smell).  Also, pork flavor (like bee honey) depends on what they are given to eat.  Pigs given marigolds to eat will taste differently than pigs fed on corncobs than pigs fed in pastures (free-ranging).  Sadly, pork packages never seem to mention that where I shop.  

Though that causes me to wonder...  If I went to a 5 star restaurant (like that would ever happen) and requested a plain pork chop (without being attacked by the chef), would it come with a life-history?

Waiter:  "Her name was Marie Tranvold de Pois and she came from a free-range farm where she ate truffles and pure wheat in the company of her friend Suzzette and lover Clementine.  She died in her sleep at her prime weight while surrounded by her loving piglets (beyond weaning stage of course) and watched over (in sorrow) by the grief-stricken humans who cared for her all her life.  Would you like that cooked to 150F or are you daring fate tonight?"

Diner:  "Do you have a chicken without a history"?

ROFL2

These pigs ate slop made of veggies and bread the supermarket pulled off the shelves because they were past the printed date or started to dry up a bit. Plus they had a lush acre of grasses and roots and flowers and Puffballs (mushrooms) and insects and whatnot. I think it's the forage that added that tangy flavor you only find in top grade meat. We were dirt poor then, and all their food was sourced. We had chickens for eggs and the pigs for meat, plus a veggie garden. And we had 2 or 3 pigs at a time and sold the excess to the butcher. It worked. After a few years we had enough money to start a business.
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#19

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
Nowhere near as vile and disgusting as the fate that has befallen that poor unfortunate goat, but more insane by an order of magnitude:

Quote:The so-called immovable ladder under the window of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, was in place by 1728 and has remained there ever since the 1757 status quo was established. The ladder is referred to as immovable due to the agreement of the Status Quo that no cleric of the six Churches may move, rearrange, or alter any property without the consent of the other five orders.
According to various accounts, the ladder once belonged to a mason who was doing restoration work in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Jerome Murphy-O'Connor states that "the ladder was first introduced at a time when the Ottomans taxed Christian clergy every time they left and entered the Holy Sepulchre." The Catholics adapted by setting up quarters inside the church.
The window, ladder and ledge all belong to the Armenians. The ledge served as a balcony for the Armenian clergy resident in the Holy Sepulchre, and they reached it via the ladder. It was their only opportunity to get fresh air and sunshine. At one stage, apparently, they also grew fresh vegetables on the ledge.

Why do people laugh at Christians:

[Image: 400px-Immovable_ladder_on_ledge_over_ent...ulchre.jpg]

Because Christianity is comedy gold:



The gift that keeps on giving.
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#20

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2023, 04:25 AM)Reltzik Wrote: The weird uncle you only see twice a year and who your own household don't get along well with is still family.

I can choose both friends and family. I can drop the blade on anyone. Who and where I come from is not to whom or where I belong. Provenance is not the path forward. We each chart our own courses.

The weird uncle gets the blade, as did the racists and toxic-religious in my own family. My family does not own me.

Never said otherwise.  The point is that saying the metaphorical uncle (or, less metaphorically, the religious extremists) is a part of your family (or your people) in no way equates to agreeing with them, allying with them, or endorsing their bad behavior.
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov
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#21

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-13-2023, 01:57 AM)Reltzik Wrote:
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I can choose both friends and family. I can drop the blade on anyone. Who and where I come from is not to whom or where I belong. Provenance is not the path forward. We each chart our own courses.

The weird uncle gets the blade, as did the racists and toxic-religious in my own family. My family does not own me.

Never said otherwise.  The point is that saying the metaphorical uncle (or, less metaphorically, the religious extremists) is a part of your family (or your people) in no way equates to agreeing with them, allying with them, or endorsing their bad behavior.

You seem to have missed my point
Use vigorous English.
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#22

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 02:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-10-2023, 04:25 AM)Reltzik Wrote: The weird uncle you only see twice a year and who your own household don't get along well with is still family.

I can choose both friends and family. I can drop the blade on anyone. Who and where I come from is not to whom or where I belong. Provenance is not the path forward. We each chart our own courses.

The weird uncle gets the blade, as did the racists and toxic-religious in my own family. My family does not own me.

Honestly this weird idea that you have to stick around with your family only perpetuates abuse and guilt tripping. I've experienced the guilt tripping first hand. It's total bullshit.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” -Carl Sagan.
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#23

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-13-2023, 04:51 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Honestly this weird idea that you have to stick around with your family only perpetuates abuse and guilt tripping. I've experienced the guilt tripping first hand. It's total bullshit.

I don't come at it from your experience of abuse, but it's clear that whatever our motivations, we've arrived at the same conclusion -- that while blood may be thicker than water it ain't as binding as emotions, nor enough to overcome bullshit.

The only obligations I own are the ones I accept. I reject the weird uncle of religionistas kiddie-fiddling. Just because they're human too doesn't speak anything about me or my ethos. Some humans are cunts. Some are great. I can't own either behavior; I must cut my own path.
Use vigorous English.
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#24

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-13-2023, 10:10 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(04-13-2023, 04:51 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Honestly this weird idea that you have to stick around with your family only perpetuates abuse and guilt tripping. I've experienced the guilt tripping first hand. It's total bullshit.

I don't come at it from your experience of abuse, but it's clear that whatever our motivations, we've arrived at the same conclusion -- that while blood may be thicker than water it ain't as binding as emotions, nor enough to overcome bullshit.

The only obligations I own are the ones I accept. I reject the weird uncle of religionistas kiddie-fiddling. Just because they're human too doesn't speak anything about me or my ethos. Some humans are cunts. Some are great. I can't own either behavior; I must cut my own path.

Well, the weird uncle we don't ever talk to is still family, that cannot be changed. We can only change whether we interact. He is always going to be one of the family though. We can pick and choose whom we interact with, but not what family we are born into. I am sure that is all Aliza meant with her comment. I am quite sure she doesn't hang out at goat sacrificing rituals.
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#25

Two cultures in 2023 are actually arguing over sacrificing a goat .
(04-12-2023, 12:19 PM)Dom Wrote:
(04-12-2023, 02:50 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I never heard the phrase "dead pig in the sunshine" before, but it is great!  My Dad used to say "even a blind pig can find an acorn" (meaning mostly luck, but they do have a great sense of smell).  Also, pork flavor (like bee honey) depends on what they are given to eat.  Pigs given marigolds to eat will taste differently than pigs fed on corncobs than pigs fed in pastures (free-ranging).  Sadly, pork packages never seem to mention that where I shop.  

Though that causes me to wonder...  If I went to a 5 star restaurant (like that would ever happen) and requested a plain pork chop (without being attacked by the chef), would it come with a life-history?

Waiter:  "Her name was Marie Tranvold de Pois and she came from a free-range farm where she ate truffles and pure wheat in the company of her friend Suzzette and lover Clementine.  She died in her sleep at her prime weight while surrounded by her loving piglets (beyond weaning stage of course) and watched over (in sorrow) by the grief-stricken humans who cared for her all her life.  Would you like that cooked to 150F or are you daring fate tonight?"

Diner:  "Do you have a chicken without a history"?

ROFL2

These pigs ate slop made of veggies and bread the supermarket pulled off the shelves because they were past the printed date or started to dry up a bit. Plus they had a lush acre of grasses and roots and flowers and Puffballs (mushrooms) and insects and whatnot. I think it's the forage that added that tangy flavor you only find in top grade meat. We were dirt poor then, and all their food was sourced. We had chickens for eggs and the pigs for meat, plus a veggie garden. And we had 2 or 3 pigs at a time and sold the excess to the butcher. It worked. After a few years we had enough money to start a business.

A natural outcome of "animal husbandry" and I don't object. We raise animals for food and have to kill them for it.
Watson, you fool, someone has stolen our tent!
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