What is love?

[Cavebear]

Some Jews don't buy it as you say, and as you don't buy it either. But some Jews do, such as Paul the Apostle, a Jew. He was aware of Isa 53 when he wrote, "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures," (1Cor 15:3). Peter was a Jew who accompanied Jesus and was aware of Isa 53 when he wrote, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed" (1Pet 2:24).

Matthew, a Jew who accompanied Jesus knew that Isaiah spoke of Jesus dying for our sins, as he quoted Isa 53:4, "This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: 'HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES' " (Mat 8:17).

Paul and Peter both loved Jesus, to the point of loosing their life in order to testify about Jesus. "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

Prove it.
There is no evidence for any of that shit.
Stop preaching. It's now allowed here.
No one cares about your Babble quotes.
Babble quotes are the claim, not the evidence.

Why EXACTLY are you here ?

Millions upon millions of Jews don't buy that shit.

You're like 25 years too lake with this shit. It's all been debunked.
It's YOUR fault that you are totally out of touch with current academics.

Well, either he is talking to himself to support his own weakly-supportable superstitious beliefs or he imagines he can convince atheists (who have thought about the matter most of their adult lives) that they are utterly wrong and always were. Like THAT'S going to happen...

I crack up sometimes when theists come to atheist sites and think quoting a bible phrase or two will make us go "OMG, how obvious" and convert on the spot.

[1Sam15]

Loving someone is choosing to put them ahead of ourselves. The major example of love came from God when he sent his son, Jesus Christ, to do on the cross for our sins. He sacrificed himself for us. Love is sacrificial.

I agree. Jesus loved those who crucified Him also, asking for their forgiveness.

Jesus was on a suicide mission, right bluewater? What would xianity look like if Jesus was spared?

Jesus is also god, right?

Jesus/god created and orchestrated his death. The people crucifying jesus had no free will. They were gods puppets.

[bluewater]

Jesus seems to have failed about "CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES' " (Mat 8:17)".  Bubonic Plague, Smallpox, STDs, HIV, Covid, etc.   Can you name one he did stop?

You are referring to Mat 8:17  "This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: 'HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES' ."

Mat 8:17 is in response to the previous verse, Mat 8:16, "When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill."

BTW about Peter...  His death is not described in scripture.  What is your basis for saying he died losing his life "in order to testify about Jesus"?  Just mildly curious.

Jesus spoke about Peter's death in John 21:18-19. I take that as Peter being a martyr.

[bluewater]

Some Jews don't buy it as you say, and as you don't buy it either. But some Jews do, such as Paul the Apostle, a Jew. He was aware of Isa 53 when he wrote, "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures," (1Cor 15:3). Peter was a Jew who accompanied Jesus and was aware of Isa 53 when he wrote, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed" (1Pet 2:24).

Matthew, a Jew who accompanied Jesus knew that Isaiah spoke of Jesus dying for our sins, as he quoted Isa 53:4, "This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: 'HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES' " (Mat 8:17).

Paul and Peter both loved Jesus, to the point of loosing their life in order to testify about Jesus. "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

Prove it.
There is no evidence for any of that shit.
Stop preaching. It's now allowed here.
No one cares about your Babble quotes.
Babble quotes are the claim, not the evidence.

Why EXACTLY are you here ?

Millions upon millions of Jews don't buy that shit.

You're like 25 years too lake with this shit. It's all been debunked.
It's YOUR fault that you are totally out of touch with current academics.

Its that I reject a lot of current secular academics.

[bluewater]

I agree. Jesus loved those who crucified Him also, asking for their forgiveness.

Jesus was on a suicide mission, right bluewater? What would xianity look like if Jesus was spared?

Jesus is also god, right?

Jesus/god created and orchestrated his death. The people crucifying jesus had no free will. They were gods puppets.

You mischaracterize Christ's mission. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (John 3:17). I don't see that as a suicide mission. I see that as a demonstration of God's love for you, if in case you might believe God's testimony of Jesus.

[1Sam15]

Jesus was on a suicide mission, right bluewater? What would xianity look like if Jesus was spared?

Jesus is also god, right?

Jesus/god created and orchestrated his death. The people crucifying jesus had no free will. They were gods puppets.

You mischaracterize Christ's mission. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (John 3:17). I don't see that as a suicide mission. I see that as a demonstration of God's love for you, if in case you might believe God's testimony of Jesus.

Bold mine

Isn’t that the same thing as a suicide mission? jesus had to be sacrificed for xianity to work, no?

Jesus is god. That’s what most xians believe, right bluewater?

Do you believe jesus is god in a skin suit?

[Bucky Ball]

Prove it.
There is no evidence for any of that shit.
Stop preaching. It's now allowed here.
No one cares about your Babble quotes.
Babble quotes are the claim, not the evidence.

Why EXACTLY are you here ?

Millions upon millions of Jews don't buy that shit.

You're like 25 years too lake with this shit. It's all been debunked.
It's YOUR fault that you are totally out of touch with current academics.

Its that I reject a lot of current secular academics.

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

[bluewater]

You mischaracterize Christ's mission. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (John 3:17). I don't see that as a suicide mission. I see that as a demonstration of God's love for you, if in case you might believe God's testimony of Jesus.

Bold mine

Isn’t that the same thing as a suicide mission? jesus had to be sacrificed for xianity to work, no?

Jesus is god. That’s what most xians believe, right bluewater?

Do you believe jesus is god in a skin suit?

I believe Jesus is God, whose attitude was full of love even for those that hate(d) Him.

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Php 2:5-8).

[Bucky Ball]

Bold mine

Isn’t that the same thing as a suicide mission? jesus had to be sacrificed for xianity to work, no?

Jesus is god. That’s what most xians believe, right bluewater?

Do you believe jesus is god in a skin suit?

I believe Jesus is God, whose attitude was full of love even for those that hate(d) Him.

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Php 2:5-8).

Why would anyone care what such an ignorant (such as yourself) believes ?
No Jew could possibly believe Jesus had an equivalency to Yahweh.
It's why saying that was a "stoning to death" offense the response for Jews. Jesus (if he existed) was a Jew.
You really know nothing about the subject at hand.
I'm sure you're a nice fellow.
But you actually know nothing at all about what you're trying to talk about. You're FAILING with every single post.
You're making a fool of yourself with every further post.

[1Sam15]

Bold mine

Isn’t that the same thing as a suicide mission? jesus had to be sacrificed for xianity to work, no?

Jesus is god. That’s what most xians believe, right bluewater?

Do you believe jesus is god in a skin suit?

I believe Jesus is God, whose attitude was full of love even for those that hate(d) Him.

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Php 2:5-8).

Do you believe jesus/god was loving god in the old testament?

If so can you show some of that love?

[bluewater]

Its that I reject a lot of current secular academics.

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

[Dom]

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

It's only rational to you because you are uneducated in what humans following the scientific method have found out to be the actual state of things. There is proof of that. There is no proof of what you believe to be rational, it's just a story that seems logical to you, since you don't know better.

Religion has always been based on explaining that which was not understood.

[bluewater]

I believe Jesus is God, whose attitude was full of love even for those that hate(d) Him.

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Php 2:5-8).

Do you believe jesus/god was loving god in the old testament?

If so can you show some of that love?

Do you believe that the verse I already pointed to is an example of God's love?

[1Sam15]

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

Is it rational to assume that donkeys and snakes communicated with humans?

Is it rational to think that nothing can come from nothing except for god?

Is it rational to assume that dying on Friday and rising from the dead on Sunday ( only two days) equals three days?

[bluewater]

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

It's only rational to you because you are uneducated in what humans following the scientific method have found out to be the actual state of things. There is proof of that. There is no proof of what you believe to be rational, it's just a story that seems logical to you, since you don't know better.

Religion has always been based on explaining that which was not understood.

Christian humans also practice scientific methods to gather data, its that we interpret the data differently. Surely you realize this.

Faith in God is a matter of the heart, not necessarily how someone interprets data. Loving God and reverence for Him are matters of the heart also. If someone loves his wife, does he love her because the data suggests it?

[Bucky Ball]

It's only rational to you because you are uneducated in what humans following the scientific method have found out to be the actual state of things. There is proof of that. There is no proof of what you believe to be rational, it's just a story that seems logical to you, since you don't know better.

Religion has always been based on explaining that which was not understood.

Christian humans also practice scientific methods to gather data, its that we interpret the data differently. Surely you realize this.

Faith in God is a matter of the heart, not necessarily how someone interprets data. Loving God and reverence for Him are matters of the heart also. If someone loves his wife, does he love her because the data suggests it?

That's what ALL religions say, not just yours.
"Matters of the heart" is bullshit.
Meaningless drivel.
How could you possibly be SO delusional that you think anyone here gives one ripping shit what you (an ignoramus) believes ?
You must FIRST establish your authority. You have NO authority. None. No credibility.
How could anyone be SO lacking in good judgement to think he could go to an atheist site and preach this rubbish.
What are you doing here ?

Yes. One knows by the data of his behavior that he loves his wife.
Critical thinking is obviously not your strong suit.

And BTW, it's Easter Sunday. Why are you not in church ?

[bluewater]

Is it rational to assume that donkeys and snakes communicated with humans?

And yet pets and their owners communicate with each other. Have you ever talked to your pet?

Is it rational to think that nothing can come from nothing except for god?

Yes. It's rational to acknowledge what God says of Himself. "I AM."

Is it rational to assume that dying on Friday and rising from the dead on Sunday ( only two days) equals three days?

That is a complicated, often debated topic among Christians. From Friday to Sunday encompasses three days, and it is my understanding that the Hebrews could consider a portion of a day as a whole day.

[Bucky Ball]

Is it rational to assume that donkeys and snakes communicated with humans?

And yet pets and their owners communicate with each other. Have you ever talked to your pet?

Is it rational to think that nothing can come from nothing except for god?

Yes. It's rational to acknowledge what God says of Himself. "I AM."

Is it rational to assume that dying on Friday and rising from the dead on Sunday ( only two days) equals three days?

That is a complicated, often debated topic among Christians. From Friday to Sunday encompasses three days, and it is my understanding that the Hebrews could consider a portion of a day as a whole day.

LOL.
Nothing further is needed.
Just LOL.

It's not at all rational to believe AN ANCIENT WRITER has the gods saying "I am".
What did you think they were going to have him say ?
You're just a gullible delusional old fella.
The head-band makes you very cool though.
LOL

[Inkubus]

Is it rational to assume that donkeys and snakes communicated with humans?

And yet pets and their owners communicate with each other. Have you ever talked to your pet?

For fuck sake people can you not see you are being openly mocked by this piece of shit troll?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You mischaracterize Christ's mission. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him" (John 3:17). I don't see that as a suicide mission. I see that as a demonstration of God's love for you, if in case you might believe God's testimony of Jesus.

It's all very silly when if your god is as described, none of it ever needed to happen at all. It's more like your god wanted a reality show to watch than he actually cared about the human condition.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

It's not rational to assume the correctness of one's conclusion. Rationality demands that you challenge to determine whether or not it's true. Unfortunately, the belief system you've fallen for doesn't tolerate questioning, and indeed threatens punishment for it, so you cannot ever know. You can only rely upon faith. And that is by definition irrational.

So no, you're wrong on this score. Entirely, 100%, I-failed-logic-in-college wrong.

By the way, the fallacy you're committing here is "begging the question": you're assuming that which you're attempting to demonstrate. Thanks for being honest enough to at least admit it.

[Inkubus]

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. <guff snip>

Law-giver? Is this equivocation I see? The word 'law' when applied to the rules by which the universe operates is a misnomer, they are not 'laws' they are fixed properties of the universe.

So Bedwater, it very much looks as though this 'god' dude didn't have much of a say when he made the universe, he created it the only way it could work.
[/quote]

[Bucky Ball]

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

No. You've already been educated about that. You simply failed to read the links and the post.
A number of thigs arise from nothing.
You just have no education and background in that.

All the rest of your assumptions are totally bogus.
I'm not going to waste my valuable time on anyone that ignorant.
God and the Bible provide nothing.

Go to a 3rd Grade Sunday School site. You are simply not up to this.

[Bucky Ball]

Without a rational basis.
No one here cares what you reject or not.
You have no rational argument.
Saying "I believe this or that" is no argument.
You do not have the education to be able to support your arguments.

Why do you assume I don't have a rational basis?

It's rational to assume that the universe could not have come from nothing. It's rational to think that where there are laws, there is a law-giver. It's rational to assume that a rock can not think or begin to think. It's rational that life and sentience and a mind can not come from molecules and chemicals. It's rational to observe the many interdependent systems in the universe and assume that they were created, they were made that way from the beginning. God and the Bible provide a rational answer.

Because you've never stated one.
I know more about the Bible than you ever will.
Why are you not in church on Easter ?

[bluewater]

Rationality demands that you challenge to determine whether or not it's true.

I believe that is reification.