A Cold Hard Look at Prayer

[Dānu]

I see prayer as a form of self-hypnosis, so it can definitely have an effect on the person or group praying.

You had also mentioned cancer remission.  Why does prayer only work on some people and some cancers?  Unless you can demonstrate that people who pray have a significantly higher rate of remission, it's likely just the normal probability distribution producing "miracles."

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

For as long as he can remember, 7-year-old Timmy Yu has had one precious dream: From the bottom of his heart, he has hoped against hope that God would someday hear his prayer to walk again. Though many thought Timmy’s heavenly plea would never be answered, his dream finally came true Monday, when the Lord personally responded to the wheelchair-bound boy’s prayer with a resounding no.

[1Sam15]

I see prayer as a form of self-hypnosis, so it can definitely have an effect on the person or group praying.

You had also mentioned cancer remission.  Why does prayer only work on some people and some cancers?  Unless you can demonstrate that people who pray have a significantly higher rate of remission, it's likely just the normal probability distribution producing "miracles."

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

Do you believe god has a specific plan for each and everyone?

[1Sam15]

The universe sustains itself. It's not our fault that you don't know any Physics.
Exactly what "laws" are you talking about ?
Take this bullshit and get lost with this childish crap.
What are you doing here ?

"he" "him",  have you seen his balls or his dick ?

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing?

I'm not phased by your tone or language. Go to your corner or else consider being nice.

Bold mine

Why is it you believers never question where or how god came to be?

[Inkubus]

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing?

Physics says no such thing.

Boring unimaginative sock/troll.

[bluewater]

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Those questions are too broad for a specific answer. I'm curious if you have ever learned something from suffering.

[bluewater]

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

Do you believe god has a specific plan for each and everyone?

I do not believe that God determines all things to occur.

[bluewater]

Why is it you believers never question where or how god came to be?

It's a difficult thing to think about. Christians do not believe God had a beginning. He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

[Dānu]

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Those questions are too broad for a specific answer. I'm curious if you have ever learned something from suffering.

[Minimalist]

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Um...."mysterious ways."

[Bucky Ball]

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Those questions are too broad for a specific answer. I'm curious if you have ever learned something from suffering.

In other words, he has no answer. We're not exactly dealing with the brightest bulb in the box. This is the guy who said prophesy was prediction.

Yeah, those babies that die from painful cancers, multiple congenital diseases, and those children (1.7 %) so badly "designed" (intersex births)
they have traits of both sexes, .... they learn SUCH valuable lessons from their loving Jebus.

Be sure everyone, thank the loving Jebus for all the tornadoes and deaths and destruction in the Southern US recently.
That'll "teach em", ... that's what "valuable lessons" means.

He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

Your intrusion here shows what Christians always do and believe.
They need to preach and convince mostly themselves that somehow their beliefs are true.
"Always existed" is meaningless. It implies that space-time existed as long as the deity existed.
That means it is REQUIRED that the gods and space-time always existed concurrently.
It means the deity would have had to create the conditions for its own existence. Sorry. That's bullshit.
There are no gods. They're nothing but anthropomorphic projections, and there is no evidence at all for any of them.
At least the Christians have the sense to leave their beliefs outside the realm of reason.
Ephesians 2 : 8-9
“By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Christians do not believe that their "god always existed". "Always" is a temporal concept. Typical amateur unschooled misstatement.
Christians believe their gods exist, (and BTW, without time that word has no meaning). Does their god "think" ? A thought has a beginning and end. That needs time.
Guess their god doesn't PROCESS thoughts. They believe that their gods are eternal. That is NOT "endless time", it's "timelessness". By their own theology, this eternity (timelessness) rules out "creation". Doing ANYTHING is an action which puts endpoints or "markers" in timelessness, and is impossible for an "eternal" deity. Their gods are said to" do" things that are not possible for eternal beings. Christians always knew this problem was there. WL Craig also knows it's a problem, as he invented "tense-less time" to solve it. No one else buys it, but at least he got the god/time problem. Pretty early on, the Christians had the "filioque procedit" (how the Son proceeds from the Father), argument at the Council of Nicaea. They changed the Creed, but the argument went on for decades. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioq...ords%20say.

[1Sam15]

Do you believe god has a specific plan for each and everyone?

I do not believe that God determines all things to occur.

But god does know everything that will ever happen, right?

It knew before I was conceived that it wouldn’t give me any evidence that it exists, right?

I’m an old guy so the ‘maybe he hasn’t gotten around to you yet’ won’t work.

Did god make itself known to you or is it just something you need to believe?

[1Sam15]

Why is it you believers never question where or how god came to be?

It's a difficult thing to think about. Christians do not believe God had a beginning. He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

So if god doesn’t have a beginning then you kinda have to believe that at some point of god history, it was alone with nothing/no thing around it, right?

Hard to conceive, huh?

[TheGentlemanBastard]

I take God at His word by faith.

While ignoring mountains of evidence for scientific explanations. 

[Bucky Ball]

It's a difficult thing to think about. Christians do not believe God had a beginning. He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

So if god doesn’t have a beginning then you kinda have to believe that at some point of god history, it was alone with nothing/no thing around it, right?

Hard to conceive, huh?

If a deity exists, then since eternity it didn't "not exist". That means the original Reality is larger, and by definition not a part of the deity.
There is no way around this. Did god create the very reality required for its own existence ?

[Bucky Ball]

The universe sustains itself. It's not our fault that you don't know any Physics.
Exactly what "laws" are you talking about ?
Take this bullshit and get lost with this childish crap.
What are you doing here ?

"he" "him",  have you seen his balls or his dick ?

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing?

I'm not phased by your tone or language. Go to your corner or else consider being nice.

Its "fazed".
fazed: (verb) disturb the composure of. phased: (verb) arrange in phases or stages.

Have you considered getting an education ?

[adey67]

Written in error

[adey67]

Why is it you believers never question where or how god came to be?

It's a difficult thing to think about. Christians do not believe God had a beginning. He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

Mmm faith. The definition of which is believing in something on the basis of precisely zero evidence

[Astreja]

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Those questions are too broad for a specific answer. I'm curious if you have ever learned something from suffering.\

From the suffering itself?  Only that suffering exists (but that's not exactly a secret).  The pain itself is just pain, not a cosmic lesson, and there is no virtue in dwelling upon it.

Suffering did teach me that the only sensible prospects for relief were either to take action on my own initiative (e.g. end a bad relationship; quit a job that was making me ill) or seek out competent help (e.g. a Sports Medicine doctor for a badly torn hamstring muscle).

After many successes in that regard I'm very good at dealing with problems in a expeditious manner, rather than losing precious time hoping that things will magically get better, or waiting for help that will never come.

[Bucky Ball]

It's a difficult thing to think about. Christians do not believe God had a beginning. He exists, and all things were created through Him. I take God at His word by faith.

Mmm faith. The definition of which is believing in something on the basis of precisely zero evidence

The ultimate circular argument.
I believe in god because I believe in his word, which I believe he inspired.

(They really ought to look at the "history" of "inspiration").
It's not a Biblical idea. When Timothy said "all scripture is bla bla bla (inspired)" there was no canon of scripture yet.
There is no support for an "inspired" word. Genesis is a compilation of at least 3, (probably 4 or 5) Jewish sources, with some Babylonian
myths throw in. Scholars know pretty much where every line in the Pentateuch came from. It didn't come from a god.

"Excerpt from Genesis Printed in Colors modern critical research into the sources and character of the ancient scriptures of the Hebrews leaves no reasonable doubt that the Book Of Genesis, which was used as an introduction to the old Jewish law, is a composite production made up largely of myths and fragments of myths embodying the conceptions of the earliest writers of Israel, regarding the relations of that people to their deity. Study of it in this aspect gives it a new interest and significance, while persistence in the old view of its origin and meaning is in danger of sinking it from reverence."
https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Printed-C...1331835666

[Bucky Ball]

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing ?

LOL. bluewater and physics. LOL.
No. That's precisely the point.
The environment where the universe *may* have arisen (from) is totally unknown, and you know absolutely nothing about that environment and how things work there. If you do know about the environment outside this universe ... congratulations, you get the Nobel Prize. The mistake fundies such as you fail to recognize this ... you know nothing about how things in any environment except THIS universe locally.
95 % of what this universe is made of, is unknown. Dark Energy and Dark Matter comprise 95 % of the universe.

Your assumption that "something from nothing" is actually a legitimate criticism is false. A number of events in this universe are spontaneous. You should avoid talking about things you know nothing about. Answers in Genesis is not really the best place to learn your Physics.
Go sit in the corner until you get the education you need to discuss these matters. Your ignorance is highly offensive.

[Cavebear]

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?

Those questions are too broad for a specific answer. I'm curious if you have ever learned something from suffering.\

From the suffering itself?  Only that suffering exists (but that's not exactly a secret).  The pain itself is just pain, not a cosmic lesson, and there is no virtue in dwelling upon it.

Suffering did teach me that the only sensible prospects for relief were either to take action on my own initiative (e.g. end a bad relationship; quit a job that was making me ill) or seek out competent help (e.g. a Sports Medicine doctor for a badly torn hamstring muscle).

After many successes in that regard I'm very good at dealing with problems in a expeditious manner, rather than losing precious time hoping that things will magically get better, or waiting for help that will never come.

The Lord God decides who to help based on his inscrutable all-seeing mind.  So what he allows in sufferring of one person today may have consequences in generations way in the future (which HE of course only knows).

Yeah, and if you believe that, I have a time-share to sell you...  The Brooklyn Bridge goes along for free.  

[Tomatoshadow2]

I remember when my grandpa was dieing of congestive heart failure, he would pray a lot, didn't change anything, he still died. Religious people could actually be doing something to help people, but their like nah, 'I'll keep you in my prayers' what a waste of time.

[Cavebear]

I do not believe that God determines all things to occur.

But god does know everything that will ever happen, right?

It knew before I was conceived that it wouldn’t give me any evidence that it exists, right?

I’m an old guy so the ‘maybe he hasn’t gotten around to you yet’ won’t work.

Did god make itself known to you or is it just something you need to believe?

Oh please do go on.  It is amusing...

"But god does know everything that will ever happen, right?"

No, because there is no deity.  Please feel free to prove there is one.  Any one of any sort.  Your's or Thor or Mithra or Osiris would do just fine.

"It knew before I was conceived that it wouldn’t give me any evidence that it exists, right?"

No, you were taught to believe in a non-existent "guy-in-the-sky" by the same people who told you there was a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny.  And you escaped those but not the "guy-in-the-sky.  Sorry about the last leftover one.  Think harder and you may escape that one too.

Sometimes, I think parents know better but want to keep their adult kids as "children" by keeping them somewhat naive and trusting.  And a deity is their last best try...  LOL!  But some of us escape that.

[1Sam15]

Someone has a reading comprehension issue

[Cavebear]

Someone has a reading comprehension issue

That is a rather vague and undirected statement. Would you care to be more specific?