A Cold Hard Look at Prayer

[bluewater]

I have not witnessed God doing anything arbitrarily.

Serious question. What have you witnessed 'God' actually doing?

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

[Dānu]

[Inkubus]

Aye.

[airportkid]

You say prayer doesn't work and use material things as an example. But what about prayer that might affect the heart or mind of someone?

Affecting someone's mind (or "heart") is adjusting molecules.  The brain is an electrochemical organ; it's constantly generating electrical impulses which we experience as thought.  The proof of this is what brain damage does to the capacity for thought: distort it, disorganize it, or erase it outright.  Molecular interaction is the base engine of mind.  Without a material brain, thought is impossible.

[Dom]

Serious question. What have you witnessed 'God' actually doing?

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

How can you witness what you can't see or hear?

[Astreja]

But what about prayer that might affect the heart or mind of someone?

I see prayer as a form of self-hypnosis, so it can definitely have an effect on the person or group praying.

You had also mentioned cancer remission.  Why does prayer only work on some people and some cancers?  Unless you can demonstrate that people who pray have a significantly higher rate of remission, it's likely just the normal probability distribution producing "miracles."

[1Sam15]

Serious question. What have you witnessed 'God' actually doing?

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

He him?

[Bucky Ball]

Serious question. What have you witnessed 'God' actually doing?

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

The universe sustains itself. It's not our fault that you don't know any Physics.
Exactly what "laws" are you talking about ?
Take this bullshit and get lost with this childish crap.
What are you doing here ?

"he" "him", have you seen his balls or his dick ?

[Minimalist]

I bet Stormy Daniels has!

[bluewater]

You say prayer doesn't work and use material things as an example. But what about prayer that might affect the heart or mind of someone?

Affecting someone's mind (or "heart") is adjusting molecules.  The brain is an electrochemical organ; it's constantly generating electrical impulses which we experience as thought.  The proof of this is what brain damage does to the capacity for thought: distort it, disorganize it, or erase it outright.  Molecular interaction is the base engine of mind.  Without a material brain, thought is impossible.

Language, information and awareness come from minds, not molecules and chemical reactions. Molecules and electrical impulses are not capable of reason, making decisions, presenting an argument or denying God. Do you deny yourself also, your sentience and being? Can a molecule know something? Can a rock be angry?

[bluewater]

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

How can you witness what you can't see or hear?

Do you only see and hear?

[Joods]

How can you witness what you can't see or hear?

Do you only see and hear?

Why do you insist on answering a question with a question?

[bluewater]

But what about prayer that might affect the heart or mind of someone?

I see prayer as a form of self-hypnosis, so it can definitely have an effect on the person or group praying.

You had also mentioned cancer remission.  Why does prayer only work on some people and some cancers?  Unless you can demonstrate that people who pray have a significantly higher rate of remission, it's likely just the normal probability distribution producing "miracles."

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

[bluewater]

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

He him?

Him being God. You think maybe I was referring to Atlas?

[Joods]

I see prayer as a form of self-hypnosis, so it can definitely have an effect on the person or group praying.

You had also mentioned cancer remission.  Why does prayer only work on some people and some cancers?  Unless you can demonstrate that people who pray have a significantly higher rate of remission, it's likely just the normal probability distribution producing "miracles."

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

You place an awful lot of trust in an imaginary sky daddy.

[Bucky Ball]

He him?

Him being God. You think maybe I was referring to Atlas?

No idiot. Him relating to male gender.
Why is your god a "him" ?
Does he reproduce ?
How is it "he" was eternally a "him" when no genders existed until it created genders ?
Obviously it is not master of Realty.
Are you always this stupid ?

[bluewater]

I witness Him upholding and sustaining the universe by laws that He put in place. Have I seen Him or a miracle with my physical eyes? No, not that I know.

The universe sustains itself. It's not our fault that you don't know any Physics.
Exactly what "laws" are you talking about ?
Take this bullshit and get lost with this childish crap.
What are you doing here ?

"he" "him",  have you seen his balls or his dick ?

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing?

I'm not phased by your tone or language. Go to your corner or else consider being nice.

[Bucky Ball]

Affecting someone's mind (or "heart") is adjusting molecules.  The brain is an electrochemical organ; it's constantly generating electrical impulses which we experience as thought.  The proof of this is what brain damage does to the capacity for thought: distort it, disorganize it, or erase it outright.  Molecular interaction is the base engine of mind.  Without a material brain, thought is impossible.

Language, information and awareness come from minds, not molecules and chemical reactions. Molecules and electrical impulses are not capable of reason, making decisions, presenting an argument or denying God. Do you deny yourself also, your sentience and being? Can a molecule know something? Can a rock be angry?

Actually they are, when assembled into neurons.
That's all there is. There is no such thing as "minds'.
You know nothing of neuroscience.

Hilarious that your faith is based on scientific fallacies.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

Is that the same universe and physics where something comes from nothing?

Do you really believe you know more about the universe from reading some dusty tome of ancient myths than people who have devoted their entire lives to studying it?

I'm not phased by your tone or language. Go to your corner or else consider being nice.

No one here is phased by your arrogant pomposity either. Perhaps it's you, who came to our house and shit on our floor, who needs to fuck right off.

[TheGentlemanBastard]

Language, information and awareness come from minds, not molecules and chemical reactions. Molecules and electrical impulses are not capable of reason, making decisions, presenting an argument or denying God. Do you deny yourself also, your sentience and being? Can a molecule know something? Can a rock be angry?

Actually they are, when assembled into neurons.
That's all there is. There is no such thing as "minds'.
You know nothing of neuroscience.

Hilarious that your faith is based on scientific fallacies.

The laundry list of shit about which this clown knows nothing is most likely exceedingly long.

[Bucky Ball]

blue baby
Look up who got the Nobel for memory formation, and how it works.
And stop making a fool of yourself.

[Dom]

Bluewater is so typical of the way the little old ladies were when I was young. And that is many decades ago. He evokes all kinds of memories, especially of sister Reginalda and sister Ernestine, 2 nuns..

[bluewater]

Language, information and awareness come from minds, not molecules and chemical reactions. Molecules and electrical impulses are not capable of reason, making decisions, presenting an argument or denying God. Do you deny yourself also, your sentience and being? Can a molecule know something? Can a rock be angry?

Actually they are, when assembled into neurons.
That's all there is. There is no such thing as "minds'.
You know nothing of neuroscience.

Hilarious that your faith is based on scientific fallacies.

My faith is based on God and His word. I know very little of neuroscience. But I know that if neurons are assembled, then there exists an Assembler of neurons.

[bluewater]

Do you only see and hear?

Why do you insist on answering a question with a question?

To put his absurdity in front of him, because perception is not limited to seeing with eyes and hearing with ears. Its not limited to physical senses.

[Astreja]

Someone else may have mentioned cancer, but not me. When a Christian prays for healing or help, he is asking God to do the healing or helping. I've petitioned the LORD for things and have not received an answer, but I trust His judgment, that He acts in my best interest.

Mea culpa - it was actually Airportkid who mentioned cancer remission (it was quoted in your post that I replied to).

That raises an interesting question, though:  Why would any prayer for healing go unanswered?  How could it be in someone's best interest to suffer and die?