Truth in Stereotype

[Vorpal]

Okay. That's enough peanut galleteering. Please get on topic without ad hominem or take it elsewhere. Please don't clutter my thread.  Thank you.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know it is. I also notice that you didn't actually link to any articles about this supposed event.

It is buried under trans bathroom issues. I need some time to find it again.  Please do not criticize me too harshly if I had a few details a bit off.  Working from memory.

You'll forgive my skepticism, then.

[Vorpal]

It is buried under trans bathroom issues. I need some time to find it again.  Please do not criticize me too harshly if I had a few details a bit off.  Working from memory.

You'll forgive my skepticism, then.

Sure. Consider it a hypothetical until verified.  It is a hypothetical grounded in real events.

Takeaway: you agree that suggesting a design change that treats groups differently based on actual data is fair game?

Discussing the economics of third world countries with students doesn't have to be watered down.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You'll forgive my skepticism, then.

Sure. Consider it a hypothetical until verified.  It is a hypothetical grounded in real events.

Takeaway: you agree that suggesting a design change that treats groups differently based on actual data is fair game?

As I said and wrote, it depends. Certainly the self-proclaimed King of Nuance should understand it relies on things like context and actual data rather than admittedly hazy memories from someone who may have an agenda.

Show a source already -- if you can. And if you cannot, own it.

[Vorpal]

The gender trend in regard to engineering is a well known fact not limited to any one program.

Dental hygienist programs are 97 % female.  Would you be up at arms if they catered to the needs of females more or would you insist on equal accomodations?

[Vorpal]

I just wanted to ground things in something concrete and less controversial before moving on to more difficult terrain.  I hope the meat of this thread involves the danger involved when racism becomes an all purpose explanation for racial disparities.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I just wanted to ground things in something concrete and less controversial before moving on to more difficult terrain.  I hope the meat of this thread involves the danger involved when racism becomes an all purpose explanation for racial disparities.

Hopefully by that point you'll get your act together and gather your sources for any alleged anecdotes you will claim have happened. I'll confess I'm not optimistic.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to your linking to an article or two about the supposed engineering student.

[Vorpal]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle. What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?

This is not the same thing as when you made a statement about what the law is and then provided "proof" that only involved university policy. I bring this incident up as an example that illustrates the concepts not as proof of anything. So, maybe get off your high horse.

I'm pretty sure I came across this example in an article that attempted to explain the gender disparity in engineering on sexism, bias, and sexual harassment with no weight given to actual gender differences. I have no doubt that all these issues play a role, but to ignore the strong trend differences in brain development in males and females is to ignore a giant chunk of explanatory power.

[Dom]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?

This is not the same thing as when you made a statement about what the law is and then provided "proof" that only involved university policy. I bring this incident up as an example that illustrates the concepts not as proof of anything. So, maybe get off your high horse.

I'm pretty sure I came across this example in an article that attempted to explain the gender disparity in engineering on sexism, bias, and sexual harassment with no weight given to actual gender differences.  I have no doubt that all these issues play a role, but to ignore the strong trend differences in brain development in males and females is to ignore a giant chunk of explanatory power.

I want to see the article too.

[Inkubus]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?...

An apology for what? You made a claim, now back it up.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?

This is not the same thing as when you made a statement about what the law is and then provided "proof" that only involved university policy. I bring this incident up as an example that illustrates the concepts not as proof of anything. So, maybe get off your high horse.

Go back and reread that thread, you dolt. I provided a list of twenty-five state laws covering the topic of consent supporting my point. So yeah, this is just you being a dishonest prick.

If you can pull your head out of your ass long enough to find those articles supporting your story, I will read them and see if they say what you claim they say. If they do, you'll get an "I stand corrected" and I'll offer my opinion as you asked.

But quit trying to move on before you have supported this story of yours.

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?...

An apology for what? You made a claim, now back it up.

To be fair, I've been pretty plain that I think he's being dishonest. I think that's why he's wanting an apology. Never mind that he's got no one to blame but himself, because he's been so cagey about it, and has tried to move the conversation on without supporting his story first.

[Inkubus]

...but to ignore the strong trend differences in brain development in males and females is to ignore a giant chunk of explanatory power.

The brain is no more gendered than the liver or kidneys or heart.

Nature

[Bucky Ball]

Okay. That's enough peanut galleteering. Please get on topic without ad hominem or take it elsewhere. Please don't clutter my thread.  Thank you.

"Your thread" ? Seriously troll ?
How much have you donated to this forum ?
These are public threads, once posted. It doesn't belong to you, troll.

[Vorpal]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?...

An apology for what? You made a claim, now back it up.

What was the claim? It is a concrete example to demonstrate concepts.  It is a hypothetical based on a real life event.
 
Apologize for suggesting deception, dishonesty, or inauthenticity on my part.  And recognize that difference of opinion is not a basis for impugning someone's intelligence.

[Vorpal]

@Thumpalumpacus

Your list of laws did not support your point either. I will demonstrate this more if need be.

[Vorpal]

...but to ignore the strong trend differences in brain development in males and females is to ignore a giant chunk of explanatory power.

The brain is no more gendered than the liver or kidneys or heart.

Nature

This is worthy of debate.

[Thumpalumpacus]

@Thumpalumpacus

Your list of laws did not support your point either. I will demonstrate this more if need be.

Nonsense. Take it up in that thread so you "don't clutter" this one, though, seeing as how you're so very worried about that.

God almighty, you are so transparent.

[Dānu]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?

This is not the same thing as when you made a statement about what the law is and then provided "proof" that only involved university policy. I bring this incident up as an example that illustrates the concepts not as proof of anything. So, maybe get off your high horse.

I'm pretty sure I came across this example in an article that attempted to explain the gender disparity in engineering on sexism, bias, and sexual harassment with no weight given to actual gender differences.  I have no doubt that all these issues play a role, but to ignore the strong trend differences in brain development in males and females is to ignore a giant chunk of explanatory power.

I want to see the article too.

I want a pony.

[Inkubus]

I will find the article that describes the incident as a matter of principle.  What will a get when I do? An apology? Vindication?

This is not the same thing as when you made a statement about what the law is and then provided "proof" that only involved university policy. I bring this incident up as an example that illustrates the concepts not as proof of anything. So, maybe get off your high horse.

Go back and reread that thread, you dolt. I provided a list of twenty-five state laws covering the topic of consent supporting my point. So yeah, this is just you being a dishonest prick.

If you can pull your head out of your ass long enough to find those articles supporting your story, I will read them and see if they say what you claim they say. If they do, you'll get an "I stand corrected" and I'll offer my opinion as you asked.

But quit trying to move on before you have supported this story of yours.

An apology for what? You made a claim, now back it up.

To be fair, I've been pretty plain  that I think he's being dishonest. I think that's why he's wanting an apology. Never mind that he's got no one to blame but himself, because he's been so cagey about it, and has tried to move the conversation on without supporting his story first.

This post left no doubt as to the nature of the beast.

She was paying for her own alcohol? People do use alcohol to loosen their own inhibitions. Of course if she declined or was unconscious, then that does not matter at all. If she consented altered by the alcohol and she really really would not have usually consented without it, she is still responsible for her choice because she chose to drink

Standard issue troll, a particularly slimy one.

[Thumpalumpacus]

This post left no doubt as to the nature of the beast.

She was paying for her own alcohol? People do use alcohol to loosen their own inhibitions. Of course if she declined or was unconscious, then that does not matter at all. If she consented altered by the alcohol and she really really would not have usually consented without it, she is still responsible for her choice because she chose to drink

Standard issue troll, a particularly slimy one.

Right, and to then assert that my listing in that thread of laws regarding the impact of voluntary intoxication doesn't support what it supports means he's either stupid, dishonest, or both. I don't want to drag that topic here, myself, but his dissimulation won't go unanswered.

[Inkubus]

An apology for what? You made a claim, now back it up.

What was the claim? It is a concrete example to demonstrate concepts.  It is a hypothetical based on a real life event.

 
A hypothetical? You did make it up then.

Apologize for suggesting deception, dishonesty, or inauthenticity on my part.

Apology not accepted. Troll!

And recognize that difference of opinion is not a basis for impugning someone's intelligence.

Is this yet another attempt at diversion?

[Vorpal]

Gendered academic workplace experiences of college women in engineering 2018 Smith

This is one of the articles I was looking at a couple years ago.  It is just a matter of time before I find the one with the example in question.

[Inkubus]

Wheres the fucking link?

[epronovost]

Wheres the fucking link?

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/7/1/11

Here is the abstract 

Women in engineering continue to experience bias in the field. This constructivist case study uses feminist theory to examine the gendered experiences of graduating senior women engineering students in academic and workplace environments. In each setting we identified three subthemes; in academia: “I don’t think my education is any different,” “Being underestimated constantly,” and “You don’t want to be seen as getting advantages”; in the workplace: “Oh, you’re a girl,” “There’s a lot of sexism,” and Benefits of “girl power.” Overall, findings indicate that women experience bias in both settings, often via implicit bias in academia and with instances of implicit bias, sexism, and sexual harassment occurring even more often in the workplace through internship experiences. The article concludes with suggestions for practice, future research, and strategies to create supportive academic and workplace experiences and environments for women engineers.


I don't see what this all have to do with stereotypes and their value for public policies and decision making though.

[Vorpal]

I am being forced to track down an example I referenced before moving on with the focus of the thread. But, I think the article is tangentially related because of the obvious issue that it avoids.