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Pollution of the Oder River
#1

Pollution of the Oder River
Hey,

Has anybody in got any sort of information or sensible hypothesis as to what may be happening to the Oder River. Apparently, thousands of fish are found dead on its bank as of late and neither the Polish nor the German government seem to have a clue as to what the hell is going on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mas...022-08-12/
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#2

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 12:59 AM)epronovost Wrote: Hey,

Has anybody in got any sort of information or sensible hypothesis as to what may be happening to the Oder River. Apparently, thousands of fish are found dead on its bank as of late and neither the Polish nor the German government seem to have a clue as to what the hell is going on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mas...022-08-12/

The last report I read on it states that a Polish examination does not indicate a toxic spill as the cause. I have not read any articles with leads on the possible cause.
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#3

Pollution of the Oder River
You might find some info here: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,28785834,sc...r-set.html

Considering the state in which Poland finds itself don't expect it having much clue.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#4

Pollution of the Oder River
It will soon be renamed the Odor River.  Big_Grin
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#5

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 12:59 AM)epronovost Wrote: Hey,

Has anybody in got any sort of information or sensible hypothesis as to what may be happening to the Oder River. Apparently, thousands of fish are found dead on its bank as of late and neither the Polish nor the German government seem to have a clue as to what the hell is going on.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mas...022-08-12/

It's also in our news, of course, seeing as we're much closer to the action as America. I read about it yesterday. Reasons are unclear, but it seems, it has it's origins on the polish side. Industrial waste possibly. The Polish government, seeing as they're clero fascists, was slow to react. Only when droves of dead fish landed on the German shores and the German authorities demanded an explanation, they sent a few officials to the Oder, assuring the media, nothing was wrong and they would take a bath in the Rover without hesitation. Of course they didn't.

(08-15-2022, 02:07 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The last report I read on it states that a Polish examination does not indicate a toxic spill as the cause. I have not read any articles with leads on the possible cause.

Of course, they're in full denial mode. The examination started as in yesterday or the day before. If it's already supposed to be concluded, it gives you some idea on the quality standards applied. The we don't give a rat's ass kind.
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#6

Pollution of the Oder River
Mercury - yikes - that damage will last for years! Also, not a good thing to happen with immanent climate problems looming.

Humans are so filthy - we ruin everything. Undecided
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#7

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 01:57 PM)Kim Wrote: Mercury - yikes - that damage will last for years!  Also, not a good thing to happen with immanent climate problems looming.  

Humans are so filthy - we ruin everything.  Undecided

Mercury seems to be only one hypothesis at the time that the Polish government is largely denying. The other one would be a rise in salt levels and there seems to be a few evidences to corroborate this like a sharp rise in electroconductivity of the water. Where did this ton of salt comes from is another question though.
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#8

Pollution of the Oder River
Quote:
German water expert Sascha Maier estimates the number of fish that have died in the Oder in recent days at a maximum of 100 tons. The expert from the environmental organization BUND said on Monday that it was an extrapolation based on the reports on individual collections. The environmental disaster struck the Oder over a length of about 500 kilometers. Firefighters have recovered about 80 tons of dead fish since Friday, a spokesman for the Polish professional fire service said.

The magnitude is comparable to the Sandoz disaster of 1986, Maier said. At that time, a fire broke out in a Swiss warehouse at the chemical company Sandoz (now Novartis). Large amounts of contaminated fire extinguishing water ended up in the Rhine and caused many fish deaths. At the time, the accident prompted international alarm and reporting plans by residents of the river – and that is exactly what has not been observed on the Oder, says Maier.
In its words, the BUND assumes that on the Polish side there was “an illegal discharge of chemicals” into the Oder. “We can assume that a pollution wave has flowed through the Oder.” There were also factors such as low tides or work on the Oder extension, which would have taxed the fish and the ecosystem beforehand.

https://todaytimeslive.com/world/98626.html
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#9

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 05:52 PM)epronovost Wrote:
(08-15-2022, 01:57 PM)Kim Wrote: Mercury - yikes - that damage will last for years!  Also, not a good thing to happen with immanent climate problems looming.  

Humans are so filthy - we ruin everything.  Undecided

Mercury seems to be only one hypothesis at the time that the Polish government is largely denying. The other one would be a rise in salt levels and there seems to be a few evidences to corroborate this like a sharp rise in electroconductivity of the water. Where did this ton of salt comes from is another question though.

Yea, that's really weird. I wonder if the river has changed course or, erroded into a pocket of a forgotten, underground storage dump? Consider

They better figure it out asap before more damage comes of it. I'm not seeing anyone rushing around as if their life depends on it - which it does.
Not even ironically, at this point. Dodgy
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#10

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 07:32 PM)Kim Wrote: Yea, that's really weird.  I wonder if the river has changed course or, erroded into a pocket of a forgotten, underground storage dump?   Consider  

I'd rather put my money on reckless industry.
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#11

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 07:39 PM)abaris Wrote:
(08-15-2022, 07:32 PM)Kim Wrote: Yea, that's really weird.  I wonder if the river has changed course or, erroded into a pocket of a forgotten, underground storage dump?   Consider  

I'd rather put my money on reckless industry.

To be sure, rivers move & change course all the time. And industries always seem to set themselves up nearby.

I was thinking ... if a local industry really wanted to steer this positively in their direction, they could say, "Oh no! An abandoned chemical dump - not ours, of course - was swept into the river when it changed course! We will take immediate measures to clean this up - as long as we aren't blamed for it and not fined for it.".

I bet they'd go for it - maybe several in the area could make a concerted effort to get it cleaned up.
They'll run like hell from blame but, good PR has value to them. Just an idea. Shy
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#12

Pollution of the Oder River
I can see how and why poland would reject claims of high mercury content in the water as the cause with a comment about how mercury poisoning has been ruled out as the cause of death for the fish. There's legal room to wiggle between the two parts of those statements and regardless of what killed the fish poland probably doesn't have any burning urge to acknowledge toxicity claims from downstream governments. Fertilizer is a huge contributer to excessive amounts of salt in fresh water bodies. Has it been a rainy year? Flooding?

LOL, Kim.. Not blamed or fined? Shit...don't they get some kind of 99 year lease on the land, too, free of charge? Wink
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#13

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 08:33 PM)Rhythmcs Wrote: I can see how and why poland would reject claims of high mercury content in the water as the cause with a comment about how mercury poisoning has been ruled out as the cause of death for the fish.  There's legal room to wiggle between the two parts of those statements and regardless of what killed the fish poland probably doesn't have any burning urge to acknowledge toxicity claims from downstream governments.  Fertilizer is a huge contributer to excessive amounts of salt in fresh water bodies.  Has it been a rainy year?  Flooding?

Not a rainy year. Rather the opposite.

As for Poland's government being in denial, well, tough that the dead fish landed in Germany. They will do their own investigation, I'm sure.
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#14

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 08:33 PM)Rhythmcs Wrote: ---
LOL, Kim.. Not blamed or fined?  Shit...don't they get some kind of 99 year lease on the land, too, free of charge?  Wink

Hey, someone around here's got to dream. Dodgy
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#15

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 09:21 PM)abaris Wrote: Not a rainy year. Rather the opposite.

As for Poland's government being in denial, well, tough that the dead fish landed in Germany. They will do their own investigation, I'm sure.
That would largely rule out any freak runoff as a cause of higher salinity.  Everything I'm reading about the basin suggests that it was already at risk of anoxic events.  Wouldn't have taken much to tip the needle.
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#16

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-15-2022, 06:23 AM)Szuchow Wrote: You might find some info here: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,28785834,sc...r-set.html

Considering the state in which Poland finds itself don't expect it having much clue.

Thanks. It's unsurprising that the Polish government is sitting on the information and clearly spinning lies about the extent.
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#17

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-16-2022, 01:24 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(08-15-2022, 06:23 AM)Szuchow Wrote: You might find some info here: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,28785834,sc...r-set.html

Considering the state in which Poland finds itself don't expect it having much clue.

Thanks. It's unsurprising that the Polish government is sitting on the information and clearly spinning lies about the extent.

It would be surprising if gov would be forthright with information. After all authoritarian regimes rarely (if ever) are.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#18

Pollution of the Oder River
My first guess was salts and nitrification as a consequence of unusually large amounts of runoff, but it turns out it's been hot and dry - and this has lead to low water levels and high temperatures...which, in addition to the increased respiration of fish in those conditions..also leads to anoxic events - but ones that won't be contained or pinpointed to any single origin or source. FWIW, it looks like the problem was over a larger portion of the basin for a longer time, and none of that fits with the intrusion hypothesis, nor would that water have escaped detection in germany by now, given that the event began in july (or earlier), and particularly as the german stretch is heavily monitored already as a consequence of (and part of a plan to measure and address) the coastal eutrophication common to the delta due to relatively high phosphorous loading (itself a consequence of runoff along the entirety of the river).

Mass fish kills my be the new normal on the oder and any number of other freshwater bodies in similar circumstances. A sudden intrusion of toxins is actually the best case scenario. Food for thought.
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#19

Pollution of the Oder River
The university of Vienna tested the water positive for algae poisoning.

They also make a statement, this sort of algae (Prymnesium parvum) can't be a natural occurence, since they couldn't survive in that kind of environmen. Human interference, possibly industrial waste, has to be responsible for the pollution.

I couldn't find an english article on that. Obviously the international public is no longer interested. Here's the link, if someone wants to run it through google translate for more details.

https://wien.orf.at/stories/3169779/
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#20

Pollution of the Oder River
An alkaline saline loving biological agent that can grow in the dark. Better check those aquifers boys.
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#21

Pollution of the Oder River
It's one of the signs of the End Times. Soon you will all meet your fates, atheists! Pope
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” -Carl Sagan.
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#22

Pollution of the Oder River
It all has to do with Biggie the Rat, Underdog and Odie Cologne.
Test
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#23

Pollution of the Oder River
(08-19-2022, 07:26 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: It's one of the signs of the End Times. Soon you will all meet your fates, atheists! Pope

In all seriousness, this kind of stuff actually will kill us before rising temps ever get around to.  Even in the case of algae, they're still hoping for the best case scenario - incidental intrusion - rather than conditions required somewhere in the basin (be they natural or man made or the marriage of both becoming more common) now in effect. The shit might be sloughing off a shallow passive air handler somewhere - simply because it lost it's cover or the cover was damaged.
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