Why does God hate us?

[Dānu]

You're drunk.

[TinyDave]

Because humans are hateful and hating tribal little shits who hate everyone who's different from them. So has it been and so shall it ever be.  

And since god is a sick primitive figment of our sick primitive imaginations, of course he's also full of hate of the other.

"The idea of hell was born of ignorance, brutality, fear cowardice, and revenge. This idea testifies that our remote ancestors were the lowest beasts. Only from dens, lairs, and caves, only from mouths filled with cruel fangs, only from hearts of fear and hatred, only from the conscience of hunger and lust, only from the lowest and most debased could come this cruel, heartless and bestial of all dogmas.”
Robert G. Ingersoll

Looking for much depth in religion - or humanity - is pointless. We are, indeed, a virus with shoes, which thinks it's so much deeper that its primal, simple, animalistic drives.

I might be drunk (and hopeless) but I'm also right. Us looking for some deeper meaning to all the shit we do is as pathetic as we are.

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here;

Oh wearisome Condition of Humanity!

Born under one law, to another bound:

Vainly begot and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound

Dante/Hitchens

[Minimalist]

Drunk, but right.

[Paleophyte]

There is also a ton of actual real evidence that many more than your family also think it's BS.

The real evidence is incredibly simple and observable in any believer. Imagine that you are watching somebody's house burn, and I'm talking the entire structure merrily engulfed in flames here. At some point in your rubber-necking the owner turns up and walks toward his front door, unconcerned and unaware. Round about the time you twig to the fact that he's about to walk right into an inferno you:

 - Tackle him to the ground to keep him from a horrible demise.
 - Ask him politely if he has heard of fire and if he has a moment to discuss the state of his house.
 - Nothing. I brought marshmallows.

By most accounts, hell is a whole lot worse than the comparatively trivial agony of death by burning house. Yet we know how the believers act when we tell them it isn't real. "I'll pray for you" is not the sane reaction of somebody who is convinced that you are heading straight for eternal damnation. It's the smug platitude uttered by somebody who was only bolstering their own belief and honestly couldn't give a damn about you. Given their behaviour you're left with the alternatives that either believers are utter sociopaths or that they're merely reinforcing the social construct in which they are ensnared with little thought to the actual horrifying details of what they claim to believe.

[Rhythmcs]

Why do gods hate us (the ones that do, I assume we can only be talking about them).....well, possibly, because gods like that were created for moral instruction? By positing a hyper critical observer of human nature and acts, we might be able to glimpse our lives and habits from that detached point of view, single out those behaviors or compulsions we wish (or need) to see addressed.

[Dānu]

God doesn't hate us. God hates all of you! God loves me. You must be doing something wrong.

[Phaedrus]

God doesn't hate us.  God hates all of you!  God loves me.  You must be doing something wrong.

He must really like that rim job you're giving him.

[Dānu]

God doesn't hate us.  God hates all of you!  God loves me.  You must be doing something wrong.

He must really like that rim job you're giving him.

At least I earn my keep.

[Unsapien]

He must really like that rim job you're giving him.

At least I earn my keep.

So that's what it takes? Damn, hell here I come...

I'm not even willing to part with my foreskin. He can make his own, the perv.

[adey67]

He doesn't hate us because he almost certainly doesn't exist, it's his fucked up followers (of all religions) that hate us because we shine a spotlight on their bullshit belief systems.

[Dancefortwo]

Zeus is the one that hates us.  He's got those lightning bolts and stuff.    But not to worry, Aphrodite looooves us.   Kissy-kissy, lovey-dovey.   

Yahweh is still cavorting around with his wife, Ashera.  They've run into a family squabble resulting from their kid who is a psychological mess and was last seen turning over tables and bitching at fig trees.

[GenesisNemesis]

Religious zealots hate us because in their view we're immoral for not believing in god, and they need a way to justify their hatred, so they claim god hates us. That's pretty much it.

[mordant]

I will offer up my recollection from my time in FundyLand.

I understood at some level that there was something inherently shitty and overdetermined about eternal perdition, but the way I handled it was that no one had to endure it, they chose to by not believing. The gospel was originally presented to me as a child in very simple terms as god being rightly unhappy with me but offering a "get out of jail free" card and I simply took it. Once you do that you wonder why everyone doesn't.

Of course now, many decades out of that particular reality distortion field, I can see that a god capable of making people suffer and writhe and scream forever and ever for some finite temporal "offense" is inherently evil even if he provides an escape hatch with Conditions. But certain things just aren't thinkable to a fundie, until they're not one anymore.

More liberal Christians also make a pretty convincing argument for universal reconciliation, that all will eventually be saved, sometimes even without any sort of hell or purgatory. Ultimately eternal perdition was just a good fit for our authoritarian brand of Christianity.

[Kathryn E]

I don't think God hates anyone, and I don't think God judges you or anyone for being an atheist or an agnostic.  What kind of God would feel so fearful and threatened by your lack of perception in His existence that He would resort hating you for being an atheist and then want to punish you for all eternity for it?  I mean, if God exists, that would make Him kind of petty, wouldn't it?  If you want scripture, that kind of flies in the face of the whole, "God is love" thing.

I don't know what kind of relationship with God your wife has, but it sounds like she has her own relationship with Him that is convincing enough for her, and I don't think your lack of personal experience with God as she has had makes you any less or "forgotten" by God.  If God is omniscient, He can't really forget anyone, can He?  If you like scripture, God also can't be unfair, "For there is no partiality with God."

As for her God-inspired feelings, what kind of loving God would want to leave you or anyone wondering around on the Earth in pain and confusion about His own existence?  If it's scripture you like, He says, "I will send you the Holy Spirit, I will ask the Father to send you another Helper, the Spirit of truth, who will remain constantly with you."  "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever."

Yes, religion causes a huge amount of unnecessary grief and pain.  As long as there are people thinking God cares about their individual cause, there will always be those who go on a crusade in the name of God.  There will always be people who try to place God into their box and force others to go along with it.  Even Jesus understands this causes a huge amount of pain and grief because when he points to the Pharisees, he opposes them for causing anyone to think it was ever about anything less than love and kindness, but I also think it will cause you an unnecessary amount of pain and grief to be consumed in a world of thinking God hates you.

Ultimately, I think there's no way to prove God exists.  However, I do think there's personal experience of God, and perhaps your wife approaches God in somewhat of a different way that helps her to believe and connect with Him, and have a positive, real relationship with this Creator, but if scripture is something you enjoy, you know that, in God's realm, things always work in opposites.  God's understanding of how things work isn't necessarily ours.  It's never evidence first with God, as unfair as that may seem.  In God's world, it's a always a world of believe then see, faith is evidence, knock then the door will open, draw near to God then he will draw near to you, etc.  God is also always saying, at the end of the day, you don't really need a vision or a dream, you don't need a sign or a wonder, you only need to believe from within your heart, then you will have the experience of Him you are seeking.  It's meant to be simple.

For the record, there are thousands upon thousands of other people who have experiences of God like your wife.  You can spend time taking any of these into consideration or you can choose to believe they're highly-imaginative and delusional like you and your wife are.  That was meant to be a little joke. As for having a conversation with God, I highly recommend this book series, Conversations with God. Amazing fun, if you choose to believe.

https://www.spiritual-experiences.com/
https://www.nderf.org/
https://near-death.com/
https://iands.org/
https://www.youtube.com/@AfterlifeExperiences
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFn1DbG...EZlG9PzOcA

I hope I answered your prayer.

[Minimalist]

I don't think God hates anyone,

God is a silly concept created by frightened little humans.  God does have followers, though.  And those bastards need constant watching!

[Camaro Dude]

(Hate atheists I mean...and actually anyone not following the one true religion, whichever one that is)

I know many theists say that atheists hate god, but we don't, obviously... just the religions formed in its name. But really, if god was real, isn't it actually the other way around? He hates us. But why?

This topic came up between my wife and I a few weeks ago after the death of her older sister (only 56). So we had a conversation that we almost never have, because early in our marriage we both realized that I can't believe for the reasons that she does & she knows that I'm not an atheist because I want to be, it's just that that's where the evidence (or lack there of) has lead me, so we just stopped talking about it. But the truth of our mortality has been coming to the fore more often these days for a number of reasons, her sister's death was just the latest.

So we started talking about god & the afterlife & my wife began speaking about her "direct" experiences with god over her life. Visions, "prophetic" dreams,  "god inspired" feelings. I'm not going to waste time recounting them here, but (and I didn't say this to her, but her experiences seemed very banal to me). (Frankly that's also one of the things about the old religious texts the bugged me too, water to wine *yawn*, walking on water *snore*, no wonder people sleep in church. Heaven on earth with streets of gold & jewels etc.. *barf*)

I told her that I've had many of these same experiences too, but I said the mind is a very powerful thing, it can, under the right conditions make you see & experience things that aren't actually there, and memory is very faulty, I have no doubt that I have memories of things that didn't happen the way that I think I remember they did. Especially the memories I have formed while under stress. Also I've done a few types of mind altering drugs over the years and well yeah some really strange shit has gone through my head.

So she asked me, what would it take for me to believe? She wasn't trying to convert me or anything, just did I know what evidence I would accept, and I'm not really sure I came up with a very good answer, but tell me what you think...

I said it would take a direct intervention with god itself, in the "flesh" so to speak. Like what she said she's had, except it would have to be an experience that I literally COULD NOT IMAGINE, and I can imagine a helluva lot.

But then I said to her, "why do you think god would give you a direct experience of him/it and not me?", and she didn't have an answer, I didn't expect her too. Any answer would have probably pissed me off to be honest.

I sought god for years, I have multiple versions of the bible & some other religious texts and I've actually read them cover to cover, I prayed for guidance, asked for a sign. I even remember the time I asked for a sign from god when I was sitting in one of our fields under a tree & when I went to get up, I saw a 6 leafed clover at my feet & I thought for a bit that that was pretty good, nice and simple (I was 15). Until I remembered that our fields were seeded with plants that were Genetically modified for higher yields and there were probably millions of 3,4,5,6 leafed clovers all over the place, so it was more a sign of Monsanto then god.

But like, if theists are right, I'll be tortured for eternity if I get this wrong, but I did my best and you're telling me that god wouldn't even lift one tiny little finger to "save" me? He/It knows what I would need to get me to believe right? Better in fact then I would know myself.

So why does god hate us so much that he wants to send us to hell, it's his choice not ours.

If he was real anyway...

It's a tough question to answer, but I've got to ask. If God (or the Christian God) gave you a direct experience as you mentioned, what would you do with the scriptures in the O.T. that a number of people feel display God as a tyrant?

The reason I ask is I've seen some Atheist You Tube channel hosts say in one video that they don't believe simply because of lack of evidence. And then in another video they will claim God as represented in the O.T. is among other things a tyrant. And sometimes the usage of the word God (as well as religion) can be vague.

I realize I'm kind of assuming here that you feel the same way about the Biblical God as those I referred to.

[mordant]

It's a tough question to answer, but I've got to ask. If God (or the Christian God) gave you a direct experience as you mentioned, what would you do with the scriptures in the O.T. that a number of people feel display God as a tyrant?

The reason I ask is I've seen some Atheist You Tube channel hosts say in one video that they don't believe simply because of lack of evidence. And then in another video they will claim God as represented in the O.T. is among other things a tyrant. And sometimes the usage of the word God (as well as religion) can be vague.

I realize I'm kind of assuming here that you feel the same way about the Biblical God as those I referred to.

I'm not sure what you're actually asking here. It's almost as if you're suggesting that if god exists, he must be good.

From your description, the atheists in question are pointing out that God as represented in the OT is an unsavory character. They aren't claiming god doesn't exist and then on the other hand claiming he's tyrannical.

God's existence is a separate issue from his alleged character, or lack thereof. If I saw evidence that some god existed, then the next step would be to consider his claims on me, and whether he has the authority and standing to make them. If god turned out to be a cruel tyrant after finally revealing or evidencing himself to me, that would be a real bummer, but that value judgment would have nothing at all to do with god's believability.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't think God hates anyone, and I don't think God judges you or anyone for being an atheist or an agnostic.  What kind of God would feel so fearful and threatened by your lack of perception in His existence that He would resort hating you for being an atheist and then want to punish you for all eternity for it?  I mean, if God exists, that would make Him kind of petty, wouldn't it?  If you want scripture, that kind of flies in the face of the whole, "God is love" thing.

I don't know what kind of relationship with God your wife has, but it sounds like she has her own relationship with Him that is convincing enough for her, and I don't think your lack of personal experience with God as she has had makes you any less or "forgotten" by God.  If God is omniscient, He can't really forget anyone, can He?  If you like scripture, God also can't be unfair, "For there is no partiality with God."

As for her God-inspired feelings, what kind of loving God would want to leave you or anyone wondering around on the Earth in pain and confusion about His own existence?  If it's scripture you like, He says, "I will send you the Holy Spirit, I will ask the Father to send you another Helper, the Spirit of truth, who will remain constantly with you."  "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever."

Yes, religion causes a huge amount of unnecessary grief and pain.  As long as there are people thinking God cares about their individual cause, there will always be those who go on a crusade in the name of God.  There will always be people who try to place God into their box and force others to go along with it.  Even Jesus understands this causes a huge amount of pain and grief because when he points to the Pharisees, he opposes them for causing anyone to think it was ever about anything less than love and kindness, but I also think it will cause you an unnecessary amount of pain and grief to be consumed in a world of thinking God hates you.

Ultimately, I think there's no way to prove God exists.  However, I do think there's personal experience of God, and perhaps your wife approaches God in somewhat of a different way that helps her to believe and connect with Him, and have a positive, real relationship with this Creator, but if scripture is something you enjoy, you know that, in God's realm, things always work in opposites.  God's understanding of how things work isn't necessarily ours.  It's never evidence first with God, as unfair as that may seem.  In God's world, it's a always a world of believe then see, faith is evidence, knock then the door will open, draw near to God then he will draw near to you, etc.  God is also always saying, at the end of the day, you don't really need a vision or a dream, you don't need a sign or a wonder, you only need to believe from within your heart, then you will have the experience of Him you are seeking.  It's meant to be simple.

For the record, there are thousands upon thousands of other people who have experiences of God like your wife.  You can spend time taking any of these into consideration or you can choose to believe they're highly-imaginative and delusional like you and your wife are.  That was meant to be a little joke.  As for having a conversation with God, I highly recommend this book series, Conversations with God.  Amazing fun, if you choose to believe.

https://www.spiritual-experiences.com/
https://www.nderf.org/
https://near-death.com/
https://iands.org/
https://www.youtube.com/@AfterlifeExperiences
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFn1DbG...EZlG9PzOcA

I hope I answered your prayer.

I don't think there's a god at all to hear any prayer. Apparently that's the way this god made me?

[julep]

(Hate atheists I mean...and actually anyone not following the one true religion, whichever one that is)

I know many theists say that atheists hate god, but we don't, obviously... just the religions formed in its name. But really, if god was real, isn't it actually the other way around? He hates us. But why?

This topic came up between my wife and I a few weeks ago after the death of her older sister (only 56). So we had a conversation that we almost never have, because early in our marriage we both realized that I can't believe for the reasons that she does & she knows that I'm not an atheist because I want to be, it's just that that's where the evidence (or lack there of) has lead me, so we just stopped talking about it. But the truth of our mortality has been coming to the fore more often these days for a number of reasons, her sister's death was just the latest.

So we started talking about god & the afterlife & my wife began speaking about her "direct" experiences with god over her life. Visions, "prophetic" dreams,  "god inspired" feelings. I'm not going to waste time recounting them here, but (and I didn't say this to her, but her experiences seemed very banal to me). (Frankly that's also one of the things about the old religious texts the bugged me too, water to wine *yawn*, walking on water *snore*, no wonder people sleep in church. Heaven on earth with streets of gold & jewels etc.. *barf*)

I told her that I've had many of these same experiences too, but I said the mind is a very powerful thing, it can, under the right conditions make you see & experience things that aren't actually there, and memory is very faulty, I have no doubt that I have memories of things that didn't happen the way that I think I remember they did. Especially the memories I have formed while under stress. Also I've done a few types of mind altering drugs over the years and well yeah some really strange shit has gone through my head.

So she asked me, what would it take for me to believe? She wasn't trying to convert me or anything, just did I know what evidence I would accept, and I'm not really sure I came up with a very good answer, but tell me what you think...

I said it would take a direct intervention with god itself, in the "flesh" so to speak. Like what she said she's had, except it would have to be an experience that I literally COULD NOT IMAGINE, and I can imagine a helluva lot.

But then I said to her, "why do you think god would give you a direct experience of him/it and not me?", and she didn't have an answer, I didn't expect her too. Any answer would have probably pissed me off to be honest.

I sought god for years, I have multiple versions of the bible & some other religious texts and I've actually read them cover to cover, I prayed for guidance, asked for a sign. I even remember the time I asked for a sign from god when I was sitting in one of our fields under a tree & when I went to get up, I saw a 6 leafed clover at my feet & I thought for a bit that that was pretty good, nice and simple (I was 15). Until I remembered that our fields were seeded with plants that were Genetically modified for higher yields and there were probably millions of 3,4,5,6 leafed clovers all over the place, so it was more a sign of Monsanto then god.

But like, if theists are right, I'll be tortured for eternity if I get this wrong, but I did my best and you're telling me that god wouldn't even lift one tiny little finger to "save" me? He/It knows what I would need to get me to believe right? Better in fact then I would know myself.

So why does god hate us so much that he wants to send us to hell, it's his choice not ours.

If he was real anyway...

It's a tough question to answer, but I've got to ask. If God (or the Christian God) gave you a direct experience as you mentioned, what would you do with the scriptures in the O.T. that a number of people feel display God as a tyrant?

The reason I ask is I've seen some Atheist You Tube channel hosts say in one video that they don't believe simply because of lack of evidence. And then in another video they will claim God as represented in the O.T. is among other things a tyrant. And sometimes the usage of the word God (as well as religion) can be vague.

I realize I'm kind of assuming here that you feel the same way about the Biblical God as those I referred to.

Speaking solely for myself, back when I believed in the bible god, reading the bible cover to cover multiple times gave me a disgust for that character. I knew this would get me sent to hell, but I couldn’t bring myself to worship a being as immoral as the bible god. I didn’t care for jesus and his gang, either. 

If I had a religious experience that convinced me that something with the aspects the bible describes exists, I wouldn’t follow that entity. Bible god is vicious, childish, genocidal, vengeful, and misogynistic.  But more to the point, no god that demands worship is worthy of such.  

Knowing that scientists have been able to identify where the brain generates religious visions, and trigger these in the lab, I don’t think I’d be convinced to interpret any personal experience as evidence of a god’s existence, though.

[Camaro Dude]

It's a tough question to answer, but I've got to ask. If God (or the Christian God) gave you a direct experience as you mentioned, what would you do with the scriptures in the O.T. that a number of people feel display God as a tyrant?

The reason I ask is I've seen some Atheist You Tube channel hosts say in one video that they don't believe simply because of lack of evidence. And then in another video they will claim God as represented in the O.T. is among other things a tyrant. And sometimes the usage of the word God (as well as religion) can be vague.

I realize I'm kind of assuming here that you feel the same way about the Biblical God as those I referred to.

I'm not sure what you're actually asking here. It's almost as if you're suggesting that if god exists, he must be good.

From your description, the atheists in question are pointing out that God as represented in the OT is an unsavory character. They aren't claiming god doesn't exist and then on the other hand claiming he's tyrannical.

God's existence is a separate issue from his alleged character, or lack thereof. If I saw evidence that some god existed, then the next step would be to consider his claims on me, and whether he has the authority and standing to make them. If god turned out to be a cruel tyrant after finally revealing or evidencing himself to me, that would be a real bummer, but that value judgment would have nothing at all to do with god's believability.

I'm not suggesting that.

What I meant was, if anyone who takes the position that God is wicked due to what is stated in the O.T., they have 2 primary choices. They could reject God in spite of the direct undeniable experience because of what they've read. No difference of opinion other than knowing God now exists. Or accepting God, either because the enlightenment may have involved more than just finding out God is real, or at least willing to reconsider their understanding of O.T. scripture in relation to God's morality.

[Camaro Dude]

It's a tough question to answer, but I've got to ask. If God (or the Christian God) gave you a direct experience as you mentioned, what would you do with the scriptures in the O.T. that a number of people feel display God as a tyrant?

The reason I ask is I've seen some Atheist You Tube channel hosts say in one video that they don't believe simply because of lack of evidence. And then in another video they will claim God as represented in the O.T. is among other things a tyrant. And sometimes the usage of the word God (as well as religion) can be vague.

I realize I'm kind of assuming here that you feel the same way about the Biblical God as those I referred to.

Speaking solely for myself, back when I believed in the bible god, reading the bible cover to cover multiple times gave me a disgust for that character. I knew this would get me sent to hell, but I couldn’t bring myself to worship a being as immoral as the bible god. I didn’t care for jesus and his gang, either. 

If I had a religious experience that convinced me that something with the aspects the bible describes exists, I wouldn’t follow that entity. Bible god is vicious, childish, genocidal, vengeful, and misogynistic.  But more to the point, no god that demands worship is worthy of such.  

Knowing that scientists have been able to identify where the brain generates religious visions, and trigger these in the lab, I don’t think I’d be convinced to interpret any personal experience as evidence of a god’s existence, though.

Is it safe to say then that you personally would definitely not even want such a direct experience? That any personal proof (divine proof given to you personally) would be meaningless?

[TinyDave]

Amazing fun, if you choose to believe.

I did read your whole post. It was thoughtful and inciteful. 

This part of your post that I have quoted sums up my position, and I think a lot of atheists' position.

if you choose to believe.

I have a choice in believing in many things. 
The reasons for believing in things is based on whether or not it is rational to believe in that thing.
We need evidence to believe in things to make a decision.
The evidence of the thing informs our choice.
The standard of evidence that is acceptable as proof varies depending on the claim.
The implications of the seriousness of the decision on whether to believe the claim or not is reflected in the burden of proof required.

I do not choose not to believe; I haven't been shown evidence that is convincing.
Not believing in a thing isn't a willful act, believing is.

[julep]

Speaking solely for myself, back when I believed in the bible god, reading the bible cover to cover multiple times gave me a disgust for that character. I knew this would get me sent to hell, but I couldn’t bring myself to worship a being as immoral as the bible god. I didn’t care for jesus and his gang, either. 

If I had a religious experience that convinced me that something with the aspects the bible describes exists, I wouldn’t follow that entity. Bible god is vicious, childish, genocidal, vengeful, and misogynistic.  But more to the point, no god that demands worship is worthy of such.  

Knowing that scientists have been able to identify where the brain generates religious visions, and trigger these in the lab, I don’t think I’d be convinced to interpret any personal experience as evidence of a god’s existence, though.

Is it safe to say then that you personally would definitely not even want such a direct experience? That any personal proof (divine proof given to you personally) would be meaningless?

I think such an experience would be interesting, but I wouldn’t seek it out. 

Divine proof given to me personally would be meaningless if the point of the exercise was to get me to be on god’s side. My position regarding god’s essential immorality and general horrribleness was developed while I was a believer, not after, although it’s been reinforced many times over by my lived experience and thinking since then. 

So, yes, it would essentially be a waste of god’s time.

[no one]

Has anyone ever noticed just how hooman the magic sky pixie is?

This is why there is so much hatred in the morons who believe.

god is nothing more than a concocted story produced by frightened, obnoxiously arrogant troglodytes, who did not understand the natural sciences taking place around them, so they made shit up to quell their fears.

[TinyDave]

Has anyone ever noticed just how hooman the magic sky pixie is?

This is why there is so much hatred in the morons who believe.

It's almost like a bunch of people made stuff up to explain what they didn't know.
Mental illness wasn't well understood or acknowledged until recently.