Intelligence

[mordant]

I made the mistake of pointing out on another site that IQ as a measurement of intelligence has some significant limitations in that it says nothing about character, discipline, intuition, social skills, communication skills, wisdom, self-awareness, empathy, emotional intelligence or about ten zillion other important things. It's a (somewhat flawed) measure of how quickly you can make connections and process information. It's like talking about computer CPU clock speed without discussion what kind of software it's running and whether it's working correctly or even appropriate to the task. I also pointed out, since the context was how intelligent you had to be to be a good software developer, that I know high IQ people who could not program their way out of a paper bag as they have zero ability to think abstractly. I pointed out that I now high IQ people who are in a technical sense good devs but so toxic that they pull the whole team down and more than make up for whatever they contribute by what they subtract.

Boy did I get an earful from some asshat self-styled genius who is invested in his high IQ. "IQ is scientifically accurate and a far better measure of intelligence than anything else, blah-blah." I just said, fine, you do you ...

In my experience people chronically miss the point when talking about intelligence, whether as measured by IQ or more subjectively. It's like a zero-sum game, where intelligence is all that matters.

[jimhabegger]

I made the mistake of pointing out on another site that IQ as a measurement of intelligence has some significant limitations in that it says nothing about character, discipline, intuition, social skills, communication skills, wisdom, self-awareness, empathy, emotional intelligence or about ten zillion other important things. It's a (somewhat flawed) measure of how quickly you can make connections and process information. It's like talking about computer CPU clock speed without discussion what kind of software it's running and whether it's working correctly or even appropriate to the task. I also pointed out, since the context was how intelligent you had to be to be a good software developer, that I know high IQ people who could not program their way out of a paper bag as they have zero ability to think abstractly. I pointed out that I now high IQ people who are in a technical sense good devs but so toxic that they pull the whole team down and more than make up for whatever they contribute by what they subtract.

Boy did I get an earful from some asshat self-styled genius who is invested in his high IQ. "IQ is scientifically accurate and a far better measure of intelligence than anything else, blah-blah." I just said, fine, you do you ...

In my experience people chronically miss the point when talking about intelligence, whether as measured by IQ or more subjectively. It's like a zero-sum game, where intelligence is all that matters.

You might have missed the point of what Antonio has been saying. I'm not sure I'm seeing it clearly either, but it looks to me something like ranting about the mental capacities that gave us modern technology not being used to solve our social problems, and to stop people from ravaging the earth.

[Cavebear]

I made the mistake of pointing out on another site that IQ as a measurement of intelligence has some significant limitations in that it says nothing about character, discipline, intuition, social skills, communication skills, wisdom, self-awareness, empathy, emotional intelligence or about ten zillion other important things. It's a (somewhat flawed) measure of how quickly you can make connections and process information. It's like talking about computer CPU clock speed without discussion what kind of software it's running and whether it's working correctly or even appropriate to the task. I also pointed out, since the context was how intelligent you had to be to be a good software developer, that I know high IQ people who could not program their way out of a paper bag as they have zero ability to think abstractly. I pointed out that I now high IQ people who are in a technical sense good devs but so toxic that they pull the whole team down and more than make up for whatever they contribute by what they subtract.

Boy did I get an earful from some asshat self-styled genius who is invested in his high IQ. "IQ is scientifically accurate and a far better measure of intelligence than anything else, blah-blah." I just said, fine, you do you ...

In my experience people chronically miss the point when talking about intelligence, whether as measured by IQ or more subjectively. It's like a zero-sum game, where intelligence is all that matters.

You might have missed the point of what Antonio has been saying. I'm not sure I'm seeing it clearly either, but it looks to me something like ranting about the mental capacities that gave us modern technology not being used to solve our social problems, and to stop people from ravaging the earth.

Antonio isn't on my ignore list, but I don't pay much attention to his posts much either.  I mostly think he is a really REALLY funny ass idiot.  

Regarding IQ, there is some validity and some problems with the measurement.  Solving problems has value.  But so does tracking a wounded prey via blood-drops.  One gets you flint arrowheads and an a bow; the other gets you dinner for the week.  The difference is that IQ gets you a house in a city someday stockaded away from the dire wolves and tracking prey just gets you another meal for a week.

[Inkubus]

You replied to "what the fuck are you talking about". No quote, and that was the post above yours. Have yourself a lovely evening! 

The offending post of mine is numbered 95 it was a reply to Antonio, post number 94 not the embedded quotes within it.

[Dom]

You replied to "what the fuck are you talking about". No quote, and that was the post above yours. Have yourself a lovely evening! 

The offending post of mine is numbered 95 it was a reply to Antonio, post number 94 not the embedded quotes within it.

It doesn't really matter.

[no one]

Age is but a number.

Physically, I'm old enough to remember The Great Space Coaster
Mentally, I'm not to far off from its target audience.

[Antonio]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Personal attacks on a forum like this usually reflects that the person attacking has a very large ego that is easily bruised . His "funny asshat "remark is usually how he/or she feels about themselves .

I actually feel sorry for these types probably bullied as a child

[Dom]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Personal attacks on a forum like this usually reflects that the person attacking has a very large ego that is easily bruised . His "funny asshat "remark is usually how he/or she feels about themselves .

I actually feel sorry for these types probably bullied as a child

I agree that intelligence is species specific.

[mordant]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

I have no quarrel with any of this.

We are neither as intelligent as we think we are, nor is intelligence by itself as all-important as some think it is.

Effective people are a total package that involves intelligence, empathy, patience, mature judgment, kindness, openness, genuineness, humility, etc etc.

The failure of us as a civilization to cultivate enough of these traits in enough people, such that our civilization as we know it is under threat, is the great tragedy of our times.

[Fireball]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Personal attacks on a forum like this usually reflects that the person attacking has a very large ego that is easily bruised . His "funny asshat "remark is usually how he/or she feels about themselves .

I actually feel sorry for these types probably bullied as a child

My, aren't we cute?

[jimhabegger]

Effective people are a total package that involves intelligence, empathy, patience, mature judgment, kindness, openness, genuineness, humility, etc etc.

The failure of us as a civilization to cultivate enough of these traits in enough people, such that our civilization as we know it is under threat, is the great tragedy of our times.

This gets 5/5 stars from me. I need to find some way to bookmark this, to remember it and come back to it later.

[Fireball]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

I have no quarrel with any of this.

We are neither as intelligent as we think we are, nor is intelligence by itself as all-important as some think it is.

Effective people are a total package that involves intelligence, empathy, patience, mature judgment, kindness, openness, genuineness, humility, etc etc.

The failure of us as a civilization to cultivate enough of these traits in enough people, such that our civilization as we know it is under threat, is the great tragedy of our times.

I think that this assumes a great deal about people performing at their best, and I've seen enough of the results of when people don't. That trickles through our entire society. High ideals are great, but not many people like you or I hold them. An easy tell is when most of the people around you, home or work environment, it doesn't matter, act like petty, self-centered assholes and sabotage much of what they should do, or sabotage the work of other people. I wouldn't call it a failure of "civilization" per se, because that's just learned behavior for a certain kind of living environment. If everybody played "nice", though, we wouldn't be top predator.

[SYZ]

'll jump in here for what it worth. I perceive Intelligence to be species specific. Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology...

It certainly is in the estimation of the Gen X, Gen Y and Gen Z cohorts.

How many times do we read that employers won't hire people over 55 because
they don't understand technology or computing?  But as someone well over that
age I've been using computers in the office and at home for nearly 40 years; well
before most of those Gen Ys and Gen Zs who now do the hiring were even born.

—How dare they?    

[Cavebear]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Personal attacks on a forum like this usually reflects that the person attacking has a very large ego that is easily bruised . His "funny asshat "remark is usually how he/or she feels about themselves .

I actually feel sorry for these types probably bullied as a child

Had to look up "Homo Laeviculus". I disagree. We are animals, and as such, struggle to get up the food pyramid or otherwise survive. We have evolved some useful talents and some have other animals. I wouldn't want to meet a tiger unarmed in the woods and a tiger probably wouldn't want to meet me armed with a flame-thrower or AK-47.

There are other animals with degrees of intelligence different from ours. A dolphin or large octopus would certainly outwit me in the sea, and the tiger is going to out-stealth me everytime. Almost every land predator can run faster than I can. But none can match our intelligence overall. I read once that no other predator understands to follow prey footsteps in the sand. We have "figured things out" in ways that no other animal has.

I have seen people saying (elsewhere) that, because we are at the top of the food chain, we have a responsibility to manage the planet. OK, yes, but for ourselves. When dinosaurs were the apex animals, they didn't exactly worry about that, nor would a tiger. We will always manage things to our own benefit. If the last peacock dies, does it actually mean much?

I suppose that, someday the planet will basically be our food animals and plants and what is required to raise them to edible size. I'm not especially promoting that. I like daiseys and cats but don't particularly want to eat either. I just think that is the way things are going.

We are going to make Earth suited perfectly to us...

[Dom]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Had to look up "Homo Laeviculus".  I disagree.  We are animals, and as such, struggle to get up the food pyramid or otherwise survive.  We have evolved some useful talents and some have other animals.  I wouldn't want to meet a tiger unarmed in the woods and a tiger probably wouldn't want to meet me armed with a flame-thrower or AK-47.

There are other animals with degrees of intelligence different from ours.  A dolphin or large octopus would certainly outwit me in the sea, and the tiger is going to out-stealth me everytime.  Almost every land predator can run faster than I can.  But none can match our intelligence overall.  I read once that no other predator understands to follow prey footsteps in the sand.  We have "figured things out" in ways that no other animal has.

Dogs will track across sand, and even under water. Dogs are used on boats to find corpses underwater. Our senses are dull compared to many other animals. Can't beat the nose of a dog, the hearing of a moth or an elephant etc. and the eye sight of many birds. The difference between a lot of animals and the human animal is that the other animals evolved to function best in their environment and we evolved to try to adapt the environment to us. This resulted in our inferiority in survival skills, without our man made support we are fucked in nature these days pretty much. Our senses are dull, we are not very resistant to heat or cold, we can't walk well without shoes, in comparison to other animals we are crippled. When you look at it that way, we are the weakest animal, and depend entirely on our wits and hands. 

We are an experiment of evolution, and whether it is a successful experiment in the long run is yet to be seen. We may well destroy ourselves, same as the nature we destroy along the way. When it comes to the success of mutations, there is a long, long way to go before someone can say that we are a successful mutation.

[no one]

I can whip up a 5 course meal from scratch, I can also completely forget why I walked into the kitchen.

The brain is an odd device.

[Mr Greene]

'll jump in here for what it worth . I perceive Intelligence to be species specific . Human intelligence seems to be oriented towards technology . I don't see it as good or bad , it is what it is . We can see concrete results with our technology some beneficial some not . Humans define intelligence in human terms which is meaningless when discussing anything other than the human species.
The fact we are defining intelligence has a tendency to put ourselves at the top of the of the hierarchy . All I'm saying is I don't think we are as intelligent as we think we are . Hence I agree with the term Homo Laeviculus

Personal attacks on a forum like this usually reflects that the person attacking has a very large ego that is easily bruised . His "funny asshat "remark is usually how he/or she feels about themselves .

I actually feel sorry for these types probably bullied as a child

Had to look up "Homo Laeviculus".  I disagree.  We are animals, and as such, struggle to get up the food pyramid or otherwise survive.  We have evolved some useful talents and some have other animals.  I wouldn't want to meet a tiger unarmed in the woods and a tiger probably wouldn't want to meet me armed with a flame-thrower or AK-47.

There are other animals with degrees of intelligence different from ours.  A dolphin or large octopus would certainly outwit me in the sea, and the tiger is going to out-stealth me everytime.  Almost every land predator can run faster than I can.  But none can match our intelligence overall.  I read once that no other predator understands to follow prey footsteps in the sand.  We have "figured things out" in ways that no other animal has.

I have seen people saying (elsewhere) that, because we are at the top of the food chain, we have a responsibility to manage the planet.  OK, yes, but for ourselves.  When dinosaurs were the apex animals, they didn't exactly worry about that, nor would a tiger.  We will always manage things to our own benefit.  If the last peacock dies, does it actually mean much?  

I suppose that, someday the planet will basically be our food animals and plants and what is required to raise them to edible size.  I'm not especially promoting that.  I like daiseys and cats but don't particularly want to eat either.  I just think that is the way things are going.  

We are going to make Earth suited perfectly to us...

It'll be a sad day if we do turn the Earth into that. We will export our ecosystem (grain, vegetables, fruit and preferred livestock) to other worlds (Moon and Mars certainly) in the next generation or or two. This may ultimately allow the earth to repurposed as a nature reserve, (wishful thinking perhaps but relieve the worst of the environmental stress we place on the biosphere).
Our economy is predicated on the scarcity of resources we experience on Earth, as we expand across the Solar System we will access greater resources than we can use for some considerable span of generations.
Assuming of course we don't render the Earth uninhabitable first.

[Antonio]

I do hope all this positive wishing comes true .  However history tells me humans will make a mess . Wherever humans have gone they've turned into a shithole  .  The only way we'll go anyplace is if the billionaires can make a buck . We are already have a problem with  low earth orbit space junk . I don't see the billionaires lining up to clean the mess .  Leave no trace rings hollow .

[Dānu]

Effective people are a total package that involves intelligence, empathy, patience, mature judgment, kindness, openness, genuineness, humility, etc etc.

The failure of us as a civilization to cultivate enough of these traits in enough people, such that our civilization as we know it is under threat, is the great tragedy of our times.

This gets 5/5 stars from me. I need to find some way to bookmark this, to remember it and come back to it later.

On the right hand side of the post is the post number (e.g. '#112'). This text contains a link to the particular post. In most browsers, right-click on the link and select "bookmark link" or something equivalent.

[jimhabegger]

I do hope all this positive wishing comes true .  However history tells me humans will make a mess . Wherever humans have gone they've turned into a shithole  .  The only way we'll go anyplace is if the billionaires can make a buck . We are already have a problem with  low earth orbit space junk . I don't see the billionaires lining up to clean the mess .  Leave no trace rings hollow .

Earlier, I thought you might be half serious, when you said "Convince me otherwise":

My personal opinion is that humans aren't very intelligent . Convince me otherwise

I'm thinking now that I was wrong about that. If you really were hoping for people to convince you otherwise, let me know.

[Inkubus]

It'll be a sad day if we do turn the Earth into that. We will export our ecosystem (grain, vegetables, fruit and preferred livestock) to other worlds (Moon and Mars certainly) in the next generation or or two. This may ultimately allow the earth to repurposed as a nature reserve, (wishful thinking perhaps but relieve the worst of the environmental stress we place on the biosphere)...

Mr Green, how do you propose we do this?

[Mr Greene]

It'll be a sad day if we do turn the Earth into that. We will export our ecosystem (grain, vegetables, fruit and preferred livestock) to other worlds (Moon and Mars certainly) in the next generation or or two. This may ultimately allow the earth to repurposed as a nature reserve, (wishful thinking perhaps but relieve the worst of the environmental stress we place on the biosphere)...

Mr Green, how do you propose we do this?

In essence industrial scale greenhouses across the lunar surface, to the horizon and beyond. Where we look up and see a dusty grey desert our descendents must look up and see green fields under glass.
Initially units will have to be fabricated on Earth and sent up but ultimately it will make more sense to construct them from materials on the Moon itself. The most obvious item lacking is water, which will be expensive if brought up from Earth but could be mined from asteroids beyond the Frost Line.