Looking for criticism of some ideas

[Thumpalumpacus]

It has years of thought, observation and research behind it. Note that I'm not saying everything that people are doing. Only everything that I've seen people doing, that's being promoted as fighting against injustices and oppression. i would be glad for people to tell me about examples of fighting against injustices and oppression, that they think are not actually helping to perpetuate them and make them worse.

Firstly, it is your claim, so I need not disprove it if you refuse to support it, so you really have an obligation to support your claim with instances in history, preferably with citations from reputable sources.

But just to humor you, I'll offer you Dr King. You may have heard of him. What actions did he take that worsened the oppression and injustice in America? Be specific.

Now, you need to support this claim that everything you see done to fight oppression and injustice only further those two ills. Also, I don't know you from Adam's housecat, so your years of research and thought don't mean a thing until you actually lay out sources whose quality and accuracy I can ascertain for myself. Your claiming to have studied this for a long time doesn't seem borne out given the simplistic nature of your point.

Stop bullshitting me, and be specific with your examples, please.

If you want to know my reasons for saying that, first you would need to know what I think needs to happen, for the injustices and oppression to stop. That's part of what I'll be discussing in the thread A plea against bigotry.

I'll let you justify your premise first. Kindly do so? How is it that you think "everything" people do to fight oppression and injustice actually worsen those iniquities? Be specific, and cite examples; and don't send me chasing your thoughts in other links. We're having a conversation here. Do your speaking here.

[jimhabegger]

I'm not sure what you're attempting to achieve then if you are truly concerned about reducing human suffering.

I'm not sure if you mean, what I'm trying to do about injustices and oppression, or, what am I trying to do in this thread.

What I'm trying to do about injustices and oppression is to practice and promote some ways of helping to stop them from happening; and some ways of helping to reduce and counteract the damage. I'm hoping for people to do more to help stop them from happening, but I think that no matter what anyone does, they will continue to get worse far into the future, two more generations at least. Besides trying to help stop them from happening, I'm hoping for people to do more to help reduce and counteract the damage for as long as they will keep happening.

When I started this thread, it was for people to criticize my ideas for what to do about injustices and oppression; and for living the best life we can in the world as it is today. I thought that might be a way for me to learn new ways of thinking, like I did when I was reading and posting here a few years ago. Then I had a new idea, which was to ask people what they've been learning to do, or what they're trying to learn to do, about all that. I haven't started doing that yet, because I've been busy responding to some comments and questions.

[jimhabegger]

... I'll offer you Dr King.

Thank you.

[julep]

This thread is very confusing. I'm not even sure what it's about.

It’s about a bunch of feeble minded bullshit. A religious person feels oppressed and aggrieved and believes that people protesting anything—for example, racial injustice, economic disparity, climate rape, misogyny and homophobia—ought to just shut up because we’re making conservatives mad at us. Tend your garden because you must never offend the bigots, etc.

[Dānu]

I say we vote jim off the island. Who's with me?

[Inkubus]

This thread is very confusing. I'm not even sure what it's about.

I feel your pain.

It might be about different things, for different people, and I changed horses in midstream. For me it's about learning new ways of thinking, like I did when I was reading and posting here a few years ago. When I started the thread, I was planning to post my ideas for what to do about injustices and oppression, and about living the best life we can in the world as it is today. I was hoping for people to criticize my ideas, because that's how I learned some new ways of thinking before. Then I decided to try a different approach, which will be to ask people what they've learned to do or what they're trying to learn to do, about injustices and oppression; and what they've learned to do or what they're trying to learn to do, to live the best life they can in the world as it is today. I'm not sure how well that will work for my purpose, but I've decided to try it. Only, I haven't actually started doing it yet. All I'm doing now in this thread is responding to some comments and questions.

Anyone remember this.

Presenter: Good evening. Tonight: "dinosaurs".
I have here, sitting in the studio next to me, Mrs. Anne Elk.

Anne Elk: Miss!

Presenter: Now, Miss Elk - Anne - you have a new theory about the brontosaurus.

Anne Elk: Can I just say here, Chris for one moment, that I have a new theory about the brontosaurus?

Presenter: Uh... Exactly... What is it?

Anne Elk: And well you may. Yes, my word, you may well ask what it is, this theory of mine. Well, this theory, that I have, that is to say, which is mine,... is mine.

Presenter: what is your theory?

Anne Elk: What is my theory?

Presenter: Yes!

Anne Elk: What is my theory that it is? Yes. Well, you may well ask what is my theory.

Presenter: I am asking.

Anne Elk: And well you may. Yes, my word, you may well ask what it is, this theory of mine. Well, this theory, that I have, that is to say, which is mine,... is mine....

[SYZ]

This thread is very confusing. I'm not even sure what it's about.

LOL... neither am I mate.  Jim's postings are so convoluted it hurts
my brain trying to figure out what exactly he's getting at here.  I've
never read so many words that say so little.      

[Cavebear]

"Again" does make me wonder a bit, though.

If you're thinking of Critic, no. Look at the join date in my profile.

Didn't have anyone in mind. YOU are the one who mentioned "again". Other than that, I know nothing about you. Yet.

[Thumpalumpacus]

... I'll offer you Dr King.

Thank you.

!

[Cavebear]

This thread is very confusing. I'm not even sure what it's about.

Jimhabegger is trying very hard to pretend he is not a theist troll thinking he has a brilliant approach to arguing with atheists. And so far, we are trying very hard to allow him to pretend he isn't until he makes it obvious.

In Buddhaism "jimha" means "crooked; slant; dishonest", but that may be an insult to opposing views of other belief systems where the term is more positive. Getting an understanding of Asian belief words can be tricky sometimes.

Hope that helps...

[Szuchow]

This thread is very confusing. I'm not even sure what it's about.

Just like OP.

[jimhabegger]

Other than that, I know nothing about you.  Yet.

Thank you.

[Cavebear]

Other than that, I know nothing about you.  Yet.

Thank you.

I'll watch as you dig your hole...

[jimhabegger]

... so your years of research and thought don't mean a thing until you actually lay out sources whose quality and accuracy I can ascertain for myself. Your claiming to have studied this for a long time doesn't seem borne out given the simplistic nature of your point.

I was just responding to you saying that my statement seemed to have little thought behind it. It has many hours of thought behind it, over a period of many years.

[jimhabegger]

 Some of this is not the kind of criticism that I was looking for, and some of it not even what I was prepared for, but it's all good for me, for learning new ways of thinking and doing things.

[Dānu]

I was just responding to you saying that my statement seemed to have little thought behind it. It has many hours of thought behind it, over a period of many years.

[jimhabegger]

For anyone who's trying to follow what I'm saying and doing in this thread, I'll review it again. For now all I'm doing is responding to some comments and questions. At some point I'll look for some places to ask people what they've learned to do, or what they're trying to learn to do, about injustices and oppression, and about living the best life we can in the world as it is today. I'm thinking that might be a better way for me to learn new ways of thinking about those topics, than what I was planning to do when I started this thread.

[Cavebear]

... so your years of research and thought don't mean a thing until you actually lay out sources whose quality and accuracy I can ascertain for myself. Your claiming to have studied this for a long time doesn't seem borne out given the simplistic nature of your point.

I was just responding to you saying that my statement seemed to have little thought behind it. It has many hours of thought behind it, over a period of many years.

The time it takes for someone to form an opinion has little to do with the validity of it...

[Cavebear]

 Some of this is not the kind of criticism that I was looking for, and some of it not even what I was prepared for, but it's all good for me, for learning new ways of thinking and doing things.

You haven't actually offerred anything specific to address. Do you plan to do so soon?

[Cavebear]

For anyone who's trying to follow what I'm saying and doing in this thread, I'll review it again. For now all I'm doing is responding to some comments and questions. At some point I'll look for some places to ask people what they've learned to do, or what they're trying to learn to do, about injustices and oppression, and about living the best life we can in the world as it is today. I'm thinking that might be a better way for me to learn new ways of thinking about those topics, than what I was planning to do when I started this thread.

I have time to waste. Please advise me of the specific concerns you have. I'll be glad to address anything that is actually factual.

[jimhabegger]

You haven't actually offerred anything specific to address.  Do you plan to do so soon?

No.

The only idea that I've posted for criticism is here:
Helping to train children

After that, I decided to try a different way of learning new ways of thinking here.

[Cavebear]

You haven't actually offerred anything specific to address.  Do you plan to do so soon?

No.

The only idea that I've posted for criticism is here:
Helping to train children

After that, I decided to try a different way of learning new ways of thinking here.

You posted "One of my ideas is helping to train children to always be learning to free themselves from all of that, all their lives; and to value all people everywhere across all those lines, and all of nature, and care what happens to them".

That was rather unspecific. Like, "train children" about what? You said "from all of that". One might like to know what "all of that" refers to... Care to offer some details?

[jimhabegger]

You posted "One of my ideas is helping to train children to always be learning to free themselves from all of that, all their lives; and to value all people everywhere across all those lines, and all of nature, and care what happens to them".

That was rather unspecific.  Like, "train children" about what?  You said "from all of that".  One might like to know what "all of that" refers to...  Care to offer some details?

First I’ll say that what I’m promoting more generally is for anyone who wants to help stop any or all kinds of injustices and oppression, to help train children in whatever ways they think will help stop those injustices and oppression from happening. Later, I’ll post examples of what kinds of training I think are good for that, if that’s what you’re asking for.

In my post that you quoted, “all of that” refers to prejudices, discrimination, animosities and hostilities across all kinds of popular dividing lines between people, including belief lines.

[jimhabegger]

For anyone who missed it, after I started this thread, I changed my mind about asking people to criticize my ideas, as a way of learning new ways of thinking here. Instead of that, I want to ask people two questions:
- What have they learned  to do or what are they trying to learn to do, about injustices and oppression?
- What have they learned  to do or what are they trying to learn to do, to live the best life they can?

I’ve searched in the forums for discussions of those topics that are already happening, but I haven’t found any.

[Cavebear]

For anyone who missed it, after I started this thread, I changed my mind about asking people to criticize my ideas, as a way of learning new ways of thinking here. Instead of that, I want to ask people two questions:
- What have they learned  to do or what are they trying to learn to do, about injustices and oppression?
- What have they learned  to do or what are they trying to learn to do, to live the best life they can?

I’ve searched in the forums for discussions of those topics that are already happening, but I haven’t found any.

You really need to describe "injustices and oppression" in some greater detail. There are so many, after all, and not everyone would even agree which are or aren't (in details). You can't very well ask people to discuss what you won't specify.