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California Recall Election - Tuesday
#26

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-15-2021, 04:26 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(09-13-2021, 09:36 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: California's Recall Election is finally here on Tuesday.

538
Keep - 56.2%
Remove - 41.6%
Keep - +14.1%

Real Clear Politics
Remove - 41.4%
Do Not Remove - 56.4%
Do Not Remove - +15%

Looks like Newsom's going to stay governor and Larry Elder is gonna take it in the shorts,
Wednesday morning at Faux Noise is going to be fun.

Popcorn Popcorn Popcorn


Seems that the polls underestimated the result by a significant margin.

Which is a good thing. I think Elder's supporters did a great service to the Dems. More than they know.
They have not one shred of evidence that there was any voter fraud. None AT ALL.
I wish I could have gone with them, ... my parents went to a high-falutin' victory party last evening.
Everyone there was happy, and saying that the more the Republicans claim fraud, the more the public says "yeah, right, that old BS".
It's old. Very old. It was new and shocking once ... but in the immortal words of Inspector Clouseau, in the best line in all of movies,
"Not any more". Tongue Tongue Tongue

Test
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#27

California Recall Election - Tuesday
Yes! Polls showed Newson ahead by 14% - 15% but final total was 67% - 33%. Newsom won out by +34%. Far better than the polls. This is encouraging. DeSantis and Abbott are a warning shot of just how bad things get with an incompetent far right governor at the helm.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!


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#28

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-16-2021, 04:57 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Yes!  Polls showed Newson ahead by 14% - 15% but final total was 67% - 33%.  Newsom won out by +34%.  Far better than the polls.  This is encouraging. DeSantis and Abbott are a warning shot of just how bad things get with an incompetent far right governor at the helm.

It was a CRUSH!  And the message from the recall effort was that when Democrats focus on Covid and infrastructure issues, the Republicans are dead meat.  I'll give a nod to Larry Elder as the obviously horrible alternate choice for Governor, but he is pretty much a typical Republican candidate these days.
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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#29

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-16-2021, 04:57 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Yes!  Polls showed Newson ahead by 14% - 15% but final total was 67% - 33%.  Newsom won out by +34%.  Far better than the polls.  This is encouraging. DeSantis and Abbott are a warning shot of just how bad things get with an incompetent far right governor at the helm.

As in any election the key lies in getting democrats off their asses.  Interestingly the Trumptards seem able to motivate them just by being their normal assholish selves.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#30

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-16-2021, 05:16 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(09-16-2021, 04:57 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Yes!  Polls showed Newson ahead by 14% - 15% but final total was 67% - 33%.  Newsom won out by +34%.  Far better than the polls.  This is encouraging. DeSantis and Abbott are a warning shot of just how bad things get with an incompetent far right governor at the helm.

As in any election the key lies in getting democrats off their asses.  Interestingly  the Trumptards seem able to motivate them just by being their normal assholish selves.

I think elections for some time to come will be entirely about turnout, given the polarization we're suffering.
On hiatus.
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#31

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-15-2021, 04:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(09-15-2021, 10:38 AM)SYZ Wrote: Governor Gavin Newsom was set to win more than 65% of the vote on Wednesday.
Do the Republicans have to reimburse the state for the multi-million dollar cost of their
failed recall attempt?

No.  "That's the slovenly way these laws are always written." *

But California's recall law is a circus. It's needs to be amended.  One of the simplest ideas I heard was to have the Lieutenant Governor take over if the governor is recalled.  That would put an end to the partisan advantage of doing it because even if it succeeds the same party remains in power.

They had better do something because there are enough republiKKKunts in California to keep abusing this monstrosity of legislation.  The fucking thing was enacted in 1911 when the state had a total population of less that 2.5 million people.



* Quote stolen from Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Mikado"

The recall law should be reformed but it would take a (state) constitutional amendment to do that.

Every state governor since 1960 - that includes St. Ronnie - has had a recall attempt made against them. The current governor Newsom had 6 recall petitions in 2.5 years before Tuesday's recall election.

California Repubs were actually able to successfully kick a Democrat out and replace with a Republican 18 years ago and nothing was done about the recall law after that. Repubs could easily get Californians to vote again for some other unqualified Republican Hollywood actor or celebrity.

I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

I've looked up California's recall law and I don't see any limits. Without a doubt we'll see more recall petitions and possibly recall elections for Gov. Newsom.
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#32

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 08:34 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?
On hiatus.
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#33

California Recall Election - Tuesday
They won.  The apathy will return.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#34

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 09:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 08:34 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?

Those are very good points that ironically could actually be why California Dems are dragging their feet in pushing for recall election reform.

If the current governor were recalled the state legislature is heavily Democratic and would put a hard stop on any big right-leaning legislation (like what happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger).

My impression is that CA Dems believe we're always going to be deeply Democratic despite the loud Republicans in the state so reforming recall elections isn't that urgent of an issue.

The cost of the election is a political talking point and a weak argument for reforming recall elections. Recalls are 100% constitutional and legal and anyone from any political party can do it. The current state budget is $263 billion (billion with a "b") including a $76 billion surplus. The recall election cost a grand total 0.11% of the state budget. If we're really serious about recall election reform, there will have to be stronger arguments made for it.

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#35

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 10:08 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 09:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 08:34 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?

Those are very good points that ironically could actually be why California Dems are dragging their feet in pushing for recall election reform.

If the current governor were recalled the state legislature is heavily Democratic and would put a hard stop on any big right-leaning legislation (like what happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger).

My impression is that CA Dems believe we're always going to be deeply Democratic despite the loud Republicans in the state so reforming recall elections isn't that urgent of an issue.

The cost of the election is a political talking point and a weak argument for reforming recall elections. Recalls are 100% constitutional and legal and anyone from any political party can do it. The current state budget is $263 billion (billion with a "b") including a $76 billion surplus. The recall election cost a grand total 0.11% of the state budget. If we're really serious about recall election reform, there will have to be stronger arguments made for it.

-Teresa

I get that. But is there any good reason to allow for recalls to be launched, apparently on whim, and give that a whiff of fresh air? Asking the polity to reverse their own election should be a little tougher, shouldn't it?

I like the idea of recalls, and I think the people should always have access to such measures if the governance is found wanting. But it seems clear to me that it has become a political ploy, rather than an avenue of redress.
On hiatus.
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#36

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 10:52 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 10:08 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 09:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?

Those are very good points that ironically could actually be why California Dems are dragging their feet in pushing for recall election reform.

If the current governor were recalled the state legislature is heavily Democratic and would put a hard stop on any big right-leaning legislation (like what happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger).

My impression is that CA Dems believe we're always going to be deeply Democratic despite the loud Republicans in the state so reforming recall elections isn't that urgent of an issue.

The cost of the election is a political talking point and a weak argument for reforming recall elections. Recalls are 100% constitutional and legal and anyone from any political party can do it. The current state budget is $263 billion (billion with a "b") including a $76 billion surplus. The recall election cost a grand total 0.11% of the state budget. If we're really serious about recall election reform, there will have to be stronger arguments made for it.

-Teresa

I get that. But is there any good reason to allow for recalls to be launched, apparently on whim, and give that a whiff of fresh air? Asking the polity to reverse their own election should be a little tougher, shouldn't it?

I like the idea of recalls, and I think the people should always have access to such measures if the governance is found wanting. But it seems clear to me that it has become a political ploy, rather than an avenue of redress.

Oh yeah, I agree it's a political ploy. I heard some talk in the news about a suggestion to reform recall rules to allow recall elections only for things like serious malfeasance, corruption, or felonious behavior. 

I actually think the state constitution should be amended to abolish recalls and referendums (which will never happen).

It should be up to the state legislators - not monied interests buying deceptive ballot initiatives - to make laws and we already have elections to select governing officials. Badly behaved officials can be booted out by impeachment.

Imagine if the US Constitution allowed recalls. Whoof! Then we Americans would really have some fun.  Panic

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#37

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 09:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 08:34 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?

I was reading about how the California recall law passed at a time when average citizens didn't have much power in the face of corporate interests and so it was passed to give the citizens more power to oppose corrupt, corporate backed politicians. That has flipped around now so that recall elections, by setting such a low bar, have become a tool of corporate and special interests to oppose politicians who won't do their bidding. So now the recall is a tool of moneyed interests, and I suppose those moneyed interests would fight any effort to change it.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#38

California Recall Election - Tuesday
I personally despise the referendum nonsense.  Serious issues are reduced to road signs reading "VOTE YES on 201" or "VOTE NO on 210" and few people ever know what 201 is about.

I habitually vote against all proposals except the ones promoting marijuana.  Not that I use it, but the fucking cops were vehemently against it and that was as good a reason as any to vote for it.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#39

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 11:36 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 10:52 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 10:08 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: Those are very good points that ironically could actually be why California Dems are dragging their feet in pushing for recall election reform.

If the current governor were recalled the state legislature is heavily Democratic and would put a hard stop on any big right-leaning legislation (like what happened to Arnold Schwarzenegger).

My impression is that CA Dems believe we're always going to be deeply Democratic despite the loud Republicans in the state so reforming recall elections isn't that urgent of an issue.

The cost of the election is a political talking point and a weak argument for reforming recall elections. Recalls are 100% constitutional and legal and anyone from any political party can do it. The current state budget is $263 billion (billion with a "b") including a $76 billion surplus. The recall election cost a grand total 0.11% of the state budget. If we're really serious about recall election reform, there will have to be stronger arguments made for it.

-Teresa

I get that. But is there any good reason to allow for recalls to be launched, apparently on whim, and give that a whiff of fresh air? Asking the polity to reverse their own election should be a little tougher, shouldn't it?

I like the idea of recalls, and I think the people should always have access to such measures if the governance is found wanting. But it seems clear to me that it has become a political ploy, rather than an avenue of redress.

Oh yeah, I agree it's a political ploy. I heard some talk in the news about a suggestion to reform recall rules to allow recall elections only for things like serious malfeasance, corruption, or felonious behavior. 

I actually think the state constitution should be amended to abolish recalls and referendums (which will never happen).

It should be up to the state legislators - not monied interests buying deceptive ballot initiatives - to make laws and we already have elections to select governing officials. Badly behaved officials can be booted out by impeachment.

Imagine if the US Constitution allowed recalls. Whoof! Then we Americans would really have some fun.  Panic

-Teresa

Case in point, George Gascon was elected LA County DA and his opponents immediately started working on a recall. That's abuse of the system by sore losers, afaiac. I do not live in LA County, btw. It's news that spills over the hill into my county.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#40

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-17-2021, 11:36 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: Oh yeah, I agree it's a political ploy. I heard some talk in the news about a suggestion to reform recall rules to allow recall elections only for things like serious malfeasance, corruption, or felonious behavior. 

I actually think the state constitution should be amended to abolish recalls and referendums (which will never happen).

It should be up to the state legislators - not monied interests buying deceptive ballot initiatives - to make laws and we already have elections to select governing officials. Badly behaved officials can be booted out by impeachment.

Imagine if the US Constitution allowed recalls. Whoof! Then we Americans would really have some fun.  Panic

-Teresa

I agree that referenda should be seriously modified if not simply banned; I lived there long enough to see several thrown out because quite simply, the laws the people voted for were often thrown out as unconstitutional.

I don't mind the idea of recalls, but the hurdles should certainly be higher than CA state law provides, imo. More sigs and less time to collect them, coupled with actual charges of malfeasance rather than "I don't like this guy, he's the wrong party", should be requirements. Not sure how I'd implement that.

I've got more ideas, some funny I think, but this is enough for now.
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#41

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-18-2021, 12:13 AM)Dānu Wrote: I was reading about how the California recall law passed at a time when average citizens didn't have much power in the face of corporate interests and so it was passed to give the citizens more power to oppose corrupt, corporate backed politicians.  That has flipped around now so that recall elections, by setting such a low bar, have become a tool of corporate and special interests to oppose politicians who won't do their bidding.  So now the recall is a tool of moneyed interests, and I suppose those moneyed interests would fight any effort to change it.

I'm not well-read on the history of recalls in CA, but it's easy to see how corporate interests can subvert the best-intentioned law. Especially considering how CA skews left, the moneyed interests would have a vested interest in using extant laws to further their own interests without trying to topple any system. It takes less energy to pervert a system than it does to overthrow it, right?
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#42

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-18-2021, 12:13 AM)Dānu Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 09:09 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(09-17-2021, 08:34 PM)Tres Leches Wrote: I don't think anything substantive will be done now, either. Maybe a commission will be empaneled to study the possibility of looking at empaneling another commission to maybe recommend a few timid and meaningless changes to the law. You know how bureaucracy goes.

The Dems could change this if they desired, politically, I think. They own both houses of the legislature, the governor's seat, and that is a result of the polity supporting them. After this attempted takeover, would not Californians want to redress the law?

I haven't lived there for ten years and so don't know the mood. Might this $278-mil boondoggle push support for recall reform? Is there something I'm missing?

I was reading about how the California recall law passed at a time when average citizens didn't have much power in the face of corporate interests and so it was passed to give the citizens more power to oppose corrupt, corporate backed politicians.  That has flipped around now so that recall elections, by setting such a low bar, have become a tool of corporate and special interests to oppose politicians who won't do their bidding.  So now the recall is a tool of moneyed interests, and I suppose those moneyed interests would fight any effort to change it.

That's an interesting perspective. I haven't heard it before and it totally makes sense.

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#43

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-18-2021, 12:16 AM)Minimalist Wrote: I personally despise the referendum nonsense.  Serious issues are reduced to road signs reading "VOTE YES on 201" or "VOTE NO on 210" and few people ever know what 201 is about.

I habitually vote against all proposals except the ones promoting marijuana.  Not that I use it, but the fucking cops were vehemently against it and that was as good a reason as any to vote for it.

Ha, my default vote on referendums is "no".
Who knew we actually had something in common?  Big Grin Tongue

I do vote yes occasionally on referendums that will blatantly hurt people with a no vote, like "referendum on keeping 5 year old children who have never committed crimes out of prison". (Not an actual referendum but we've had some crazy ones.)

-Teresa
There is in the universe only one true divide, one real binary, life and death. Either you are living or you are not. Everything else is molten, malleable.

-Susan Faludi, In the Darkroom
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#44

California Recall Election - Tuesday
As an example:

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Payday_L...200_(2008)

Quote:Arizona Proposition 200, also known as the Payday Loan Reform Act, was on the November ballot in Arizona as a citizen-initiated constitutional amendment. It was defeated.


Note the citizen initiated bullshit.

Who was pushing it?

Quote:By the end of July, supporters of Prop. 200 had given about $8.7 million to a campaign committee organized to promote the initiative. The Arizona Republic reported that "nearly every cent...has been donated by - guess who? - a trade group representing payday lenders: the Arizona Community Financial Services Association.

It's a scam used by criminal business bastards to bypass serious discussion of a law.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#45

California Recall Election - Tuesday
(09-18-2021, 06:24 PM)Minimalist Wrote: It's a scam used by criminal business bastards to bypass serious discussion of a law.

Or an end-run by a church to inflict their religious ideals upon others.
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