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What does God actually do?
#51

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 06:26 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 06:27 AM)brunumb Wrote: Whatever God may actually do, the thing he must surely excel at is hidingThumbs Up

It's so true.  It's also true that invibile garden fairies are real good at hiding.   I've never seen any magical invisible unicorns but I'm told they're hiding everywhere.   Sneaky little imps, I must say.

Yeah, wherever you look, all those magical creatures are "somewhere else".
Never try to catch a dropped kitchen knife!
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#52

What does God actually do?
(09-05-2021, 12:33 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote: God:  "I'll equipt Adam with a penis just to see how long it takes him to figure out what evil thing he can do with it.  But first I'll put a snake in the garden to temp Adam's girlfriend into eating from the tree of Knowledge and with any luck Adam will have a lightbulb moment and know exactly how  to use that penis of his on Eve, who coincidently, has the exct type of equipment that Adam needs to sin with.  Ladies and gentlemen, let's see what happens here."

God was going to make Adam without a penis, but then he realized he'd forgotten to give him a brain.
Mountain-high though the difficulties appear, terrible and gloomy though all things seem, they are but Mâyâ.
Fear not — it is banished. Crush it, and it vanishes. Stamp upon it, and it dies.


Vivekananda
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#53

What does God actually do?
Oow that's nasty.
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#54

What does God actually do?
I'm pretty sure he sits on a cloud and masturbates in ecstacy at us infidels suffering because he's a sadist.  Deadpan Coffee Drinker
The whole point of having cake is to eat it Cake_Feast
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#55

What does God actually do?
(09-05-2021, 03:22 PM)Dānu Wrote:
(09-05-2021, 12:33 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote: God:  "I'll equipt Adam with a penis just to see how long it takes him to figure out what evil thing he can do with it.  But first I'll put a snake in the garden to temp Adam's girlfriend into eating from the tree of Knowledge and with any luck Adam will have a lightbulb moment and know exactly how  to use that penis of his on Eve, who coincidently, has the exct type of equipment that Adam needs to sin with.  Ladies and gentlemen, let's see what happens here."

God was going to make Adam without a penis, but then he realized he'd forgotten to give him a brain.

LOL That was a low blow.  Ouch.   And I'm not even a guy.
                                                         T4618
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#56

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."

Why not? If I study for it, what is God's part in it? Like, where exactly is he helping? I would expect, if I study for something and memorize/understand the material, then yeah, no duh. I'll probably pass it. Prayer or no payer. Yet if I said a prayer, fully expecting to pass the test when not doing anything for it, wouldn't that be an example of devoted faith? Like, I believe so much I'll pass the test because I asked God to help me, that I don't need to study.

I don't believe in that type of god, but I would say that if you don't know the material you wouldn't pass.  That seems logical for a god.

What doesn't seem logical is someone praying to god "I believe in you, and prayed, so I should pass.". That doesn't make any sense to me.
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#57

What does God actually do?
One thing I despise is when, after successful brain surgery on a friend, the Christians
say that the surgeon's hands "were guided by God".  The fact that their friend didn't
die on the table meant that the patient's friends had their prayers "answered".

You can't beat logic like that!    Weeping
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#58

What does God actually do?
Jebus keeps the 3 by 5 cards.
Billions of them. One for every one of us.
You think that's easy ?
Hell no.
You think it's easy to remember to order more pens to mark up the 3 by 5 cards ?
You fail to appreciate all the hard work all this takes to save our souls.
Ungrateful heathens .. the lot of yous.
Test
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#59

What does God actually do?
(09-06-2021, 02:08 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: ... Billions of them. One for every one of us ...

I'm sure he economizes.  For example, he only needs a single card for "Republicans".  And it's already marked with a large zero; there's no need to update it.  Tongue
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#60

What does God actually do?
(09-05-2021, 07:19 PM)adey67 Wrote: I'm pretty sure he sits on a cloud and masturbates in ecstacy at us infidels suffering because he's a sadist.  Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Well the Bible actually supports that:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
No gods necessary
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#61

What does God actually do?
(09-06-2021, 01:26 AM)SYZ Wrote: One thing I despise is when, after successful brain surgery on a friend, the Christians
say that the surgeon's hands "were guided by God".  The fact that their friend didn't
die on the table meant that the patient's friends had their prayers "answered".

You can't beat logic like that!    Weeping

Yeah, never mind the eight years of university and how many long hours through internship?

Maybe this God fella taught their Pancreas 103 class. Or maybe the surgeon just paid attention. And then they'll just thank god for that.

They will thank god and not the doctor when they survive, but they'll go to a hospital and not a church for best results. Tells me all I need to know what they think of the value of prayer.
On hiatus.
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#62

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."
Your quote above is man's tradition not God's word. What the Bible teaches is that "heaven only helps those who comes to him (it).. That is those who come (believe and receive) his grace, not those who eanw to help themselves

Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself

He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him

Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test

Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.
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#63

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote:
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."
Your quote above is man's tradition not God's word. What the Bible teaches is that "heaven only helps those who comes to him (it).. That is those who come (believe and receive) his grace, not those who eanw to help themselves

Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself

He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him

Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test

Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.

That seems odd to me because I've done perfectly fine and prospered without the help of God ever since I came out as an atheist in 1982.  Smile
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#64

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote: Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself.

Only an idiot, or a profoundly dishonest mind, would regard that premise as true.  Mr. Lion you are either one or the other.  Further, that sentiment is one of the most vile, corrosive sentiments ever concocted by religious zealots, that can only have emerged from minds that regard themselves with a deep and deadly disdain.
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#65

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."

Why not? If I study for it, what is God's part in it? Like, where exactly is he helping? I would expect, if I study for something and memorize/understand the material, then yeah, no duh. I'll probably pass it. Prayer or no payer. Yet if I said a prayer, fully expecting to pass the test when not doing anything for it, wouldn't that be an example of devoted faith? Like, I believe so much I'll pass the test because I asked God to help me, that I don't need to study.

He sits around the house and paints his nails.
Welcome to the Atheist Forums on AtheistDiscussion.org
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#66

What does God actually do?
The way they give tests now if you just show up on time they give you an "A".
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#67

What does God actually do?
[quote="airportkid" pid='321194' dateline='1634418858']
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote:
Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself.


Only an idiot, or a profoundly dishonest mind, would regard that premise as true.  Mr. Lion you are either one or the other.  Further, that sentiment is one of the most vile, corrosive sentiments ever concocted by religious zealots, that can only have emerged from minds that regard themselves with a deep and deadly disdain.
[/quote]

You speak on what you don't have knowledge of, in such class, you are to sit and listen and learn. Trying to prove points in such room, will seriously expose your ignorance. 


Teddy was speaking about the scripture, I only gave an absolute summary of what the scriptures taught, yet because you guys want to drive a false point, you are working on making a point without having point. 

I put it to you again. That you guys have been exposed to false teaching of the scriptures. All your premise of argument against the scriptures were never in the first place addressing what the scriptures taught. You are only been derailed by false information you are fed with and that's seems to be what you built your whole knowledge foundation on. 


You will need to start getting a proper explanation of what the scripture taught, so that your argument will truly attack the rudiments of the faith. Currently your arguments put you in the same space as those who exposed you or preached to you the false doctrine that form your experiences against the scriptures in life. It's more like throwing stones to hit the moon. 
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#68

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 08:57 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote:
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote:
I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."


Your quote above is man's tradition not God's word. What the Bible teaches is that "heaven only helps those who comes to him (it).. That is those who come (believe and receive) his grace, not those who eanw to help themselves

Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself

He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him

Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test

Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.


That seems odd to me because I've done perfectly fine and prospered without the help of God ever since I came out as an atheist in 1982.  Smile

He (man) needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it.

So your statement never negate anything I wrote, infact it actually affirmed it. That man, by himself can achieve much without needing God. All you listed as achievement doesn't need God to have. They are within man's capability and knowledge. And if you are truly taught the scriptures well, you will know that isn't the focus of the scripture. The scriptures is not meant to solve what man can solve. But to solve what man seek to solve but never find answers. That is the help the Bible taught.

So, in all your satisfaction in life, they are in line, no issues.

God's satisfaction is not in riches and human achievement and man's problem is not in riches and achievement. When you know the singular, primary, and most fundamental problem of man, that which makes man incapable, is that which dissolves all his intelligence and skills in its brooding waves. Then you will know man's help is not within him but in the graciousness of one who has helped man with a open hand to receive.

So get this again about the scriptures teaching. 

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious GodThat helplessness is universal. And can't be solved with gold, riches, technology or achievement.
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#69

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 11:11 PM)Black Lion Wrote: You speak on what you don't have knowledge of, in such class, you are to sit and listen and learn. Trying to prove points in such room, will seriously expose your ignorance. 


Teddy was speaking about the scripture, I only gave an absolute summary of what the scriptures taught, yet because you guys want to drive a false point, you are working on making a point without having point. 

I put it to you again. That you guys have been exposed to false teaching of the scriptures. All your premise of argument against the scriptures were never in the first place addressing what the scriptures taught. You are only been derailed by false information you are fed with and that's seems to be what you built your whole knowledge foundation on. 


You will need to start getting a proper explanation of what the scripture taught, so that your argument will truly attack the rudiments of the faith. Currently your arguments put you in the same space as those who exposed you or preached to you the false doctrine that form your experiences against the scriptures in life. It's more like throwing stones to hit the moon. 

You are scripture driven from the position of belief. It has never occurred to you to examine historical context, prose, accuracy, or translation. You accept it all at face value with no doubts whatsoever. That's why you're a Christian; you are have been conditioned to accept it all as truth and never question anything.

And that's why you will never understand how other non Christians view your belief system. You are incapable of understanding it because you don't want to hear it in the first place.
Welcome to the Atheist Forums on AtheistDiscussion.org
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#70

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote:
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."
Your quote above is man's tradition not God's word. What the Bible teaches is that "heaven only helps those who comes to him (it).. That is those who come (believe and receive) his grace, not those who eanw to help themselves

Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself

He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him

Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test

Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.

Hm. Possibly the teaching that you need to do the work that God takes credit for is only taught to Mormons. It tis a "faith without works is dead" sorta cult. My bad, it wasn't my intent to misrepresent.
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#71

What does God actually do?
"God helps those who help themselves"  I always thought this to be funny. Either it means that people are their own gods, or it means stop with the praying and go do something.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#72

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 11:20 PM)Black Lion Wrote:
(10-16-2021, 08:57 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote:

Your quote above is man's tradition not God's word. What the Bible teaches is that "heaven only helps those who comes to him (it).. That is those who come (believe and receive) his grace, not those who eanw to help themselves

Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself

He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him

Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test

Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.


That seems odd to me because I've done perfectly fine and prospered without the help of God ever since I came out as an atheist in 1982.  Smile

He (man) needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it.

So your statement never negate anything I wrote, infact it actually affirmed it. That man, by himself can achieve much without needing God. All you listed as achievement doesn't need God to have. They are within man's capability and knowledge. And if you are truly taught the scriptures well, you will know that isn't the focus of the scripture. The scriptures is not meant to solve what man can solve. But to solve what man seek to solve but never find answers. That is the help the Bible taught.

So, in all your satisfaction in life, they are in line, no issues.

God's satisfaction is not in riches and human achievement and man's problem is not in riches and achievement. When you know the singular, primary, and most fundamental problem of man, that which makes man incapable, is that which dissolves all his intelligence and skills in its brooding waves. Then you will know man's help is not within him but in the graciousness of one who has helped man with a open hand to receive.

So get this again about the scriptures teaching. 

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious GodThat helplessness is universal. And can't be solved with gold, riches, technology or achievement.

Oh look. He's a preaching at us. Isn't that special.
Black Lion thinks he can tell us what the gods take satisfaction in.
That despite the fact that St. Paul told him "Romans 11:33, "Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!" But Black Lion is special. He knows the mind of God.
Test
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#73

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 11:11 PM)Black Lion Wrote: I put it to you again. That you guys have been exposed to false teaching of the scriptures. All your premise of argument against the scriptures were never in the first place addressing what the scriptures taught. You are only been derailed by false information you are fed with and that's seems to be what you built your whole knowledge foundation on. 

Well, that certainly answers the question of idiocy vs dishonesty.  In spades.  Facepalm Tongue

You are blind and stumbling in a a single corridor of a labyrinth whose walls and floor you've worn to absolute familiarity, and so believe you have all the answers, totally uncomprehending you're trapped in a labyrinth, or even what a labyrinth is.  You are more to be pitied than mocked, but your vitriol invites only mockery.
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#74

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote: Man is helpless, he has no ability or capability to help himself, he is dead to life and light. The more he tried to help himself, the more he found out his incapability to help himself
This is a variation on the teaching of the "utter depravity" of man. Its purpose is to create the demand for assistance that is not needed.

If you buy that you are "helpless" then you will require the "help" offered to you by the belief-system -- or at least you will be convinced that you cannot function without it.

(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote: He needs help, beyond his riches, technology, advancement and exploit. He will never find satisfaction in it. Because this never solve the problem or handles man's problem that always expose his incapability and helplessness to him
There are certainly people who expect to find "satisfaction" in wealth, toys, status and acclaim, but the false dichotomy is that those things are 100% of what is available to people to make meaning and find purpose for themselves, apart from what it's claimed that god or his church offers. In reality, though, empathy, kindness, humility, and contentment are not beyond our ken. They are just not, for the most part, for most people, most of the time, automatic and have to be developed. Conversely, sociopathy, cruelty, arrogance and acquisitiveness are entirely within the grasp of theists as well -- even devout and observant theists. The fallacy you're advancing is that morality, ethics, and "right living" if you will begin and end with the teachings of the scriptures, when in fact they're all in the public domain at the expense of just ordinary self-reflection and patience.
(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote: Hence,
Many who hold such view as the quote above are partying on the platform of ignorance that comes from wrong doctrines. It was never taught in the scriptures

What this means is that your statement is not only not found in scripture, it was never a scriptural text. Both in explanation, interpretation and teaching of word, it failed the test
It is true that "god helps those who help themselves" is not in the Bible. The aphorism is actually of ancient Greek origin. But that wasn't the point of bringing it up. Many Christians regularly use and repeat it. Doubtless not the ones as enlightened about the scriptures as you fancy yourself. But it's out there just the same.

(10-16-2021, 08:52 PM)Black Lion Wrote: Bible teaching is summarized as below:
HEAVEN HELPS THOSE WHO COME TO HIM (IT).

That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious god.
You do you. Just so long as you don't claim a monopoly on the Great Virtues.
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#75

What does God actually do?
(10-16-2021, 11:20 PM)Black Lion Wrote: That is, a helpless man, found help in the graciousness of a gracious God. That helplessness is universal. And can't be solved with gold, riches, technology or achievement.

If your god is as fictional as I believe it to be, it is powerless to help anyone.  Therefore, I believe that you are grossly overstating the alleged helplessness of humanity -- so much so that you are libelling the people past and present who have facilitated the life that you live here on Earth in 2021.   Angry
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