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What does God actually do?
#1

What does God actually do?
I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."

Why not? If I study for it, what is God's part in it? Like, where exactly is he helping? I would expect, if I study for something and memorize/understand the material, then yeah, no duh. I'll probably pass it. Prayer or no payer. Yet if I said a prayer, fully expecting to pass the test when not doing anything for it, wouldn't that be an example of devoted faith? Like, I believe so much I'll pass the test because I asked God to help me, that I don't need to study.
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#2

What does God actually do?
Well, you've got to also be ready & willing to cover your god's ass ... you know ... in case he screws something up. Angel

The thing is, faith is a two way street. It's a challenge. You have hold up your end of Pascal's wager that your god has made with you. "God has faith in me, so much that I've been chosen to do this. If I can't do this then, I won't be chosen ... somewhere down the line."
 When all is said & done, If you've done all you can then, very obviously, whatever transpires must be the god's will. God's will is up to you.

Are you willing? How willing? How much will you give to your god?

Now, worship me. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
________________________________________________
A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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#3

What does God actually do?
Excellent point.  Invoking a god's "help" disincentivizes doing your utmost; it rewards being half-assed.  Some might argue that they are doing their utmost and are just adding prayer as a "no-cost" kicker that "can't hurt".  But prayer takes energy, and some degree of focus, necessarily diluting the full energy and focus possible without it.  Those who pray aren't likely to pray to a jug of milk, also "no-cost" and "can't hurt", but a waste of energy and focus.

Meanwhile there's the bothersome question of why should your prayer elicit a useful effect when 10,000 people elsewhere with identical belief in the identical god praying in exactly the same fashion get no effect?  Someone believing they're really "that special" compared to everyone else is a social menace because they have no reason act carefully.
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#4

What does God actually do?
God can't do anything.
She has to sit very very still.
Very still.
Otherwise she will disturb her infinite past and infinite future by just scratching her ass.
I fart in your general direction.  Angel
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#5

What does God actually do?
On a similar note, I hear theists claim that talent is a gift from god.  So according to that type of thinking a classical violinist who has put in thousands of hours of practice over 15 or so years doesn't get the credit...god does.   Or an Olympic athletic who has all the right physical attributes and genetics and has put in years of training is "a gift from god".   Theists claimed this about gymnast, Somone Biles, even though she trained since she was a little kid.   It's genetics and one's environment that makes stuff like that happen.  A god has nothing to do with it.

Or, on the other hand........

Let's say a god does fiddle around with genetics,  then is a baby born with no brain (anencephaly) is that also a gift from god?  How about a child born with a genetic condition that allows the bones to break easily (can't think of the name of the disease)  and causes terrible pain.  Is that a gift from god?  How about malaria which has killed a couple billion people over human history, is that a gift from god?
                                                         T4618
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#6

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? 

Sure, I've heard it, but it's not Biblical. It goes back to ancient Greek mythology. It gets repeated here and there, for instance by Benjamin Franklin.
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#7

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 07:08 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: Somone Biles

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.  It's Simone Biles.  Simone is a French name, and my mother also has it as her first name (we have some French Canadian heritage in our family).

Now that that's out of the way, let's keep in mind that religious folks also invoke their purported creator's name for everything ranging from finding their lost car keys to eating a really good burrito to having an orgasm.  The breadth of its invocation is a sign that there are no real defined situations for when its powers are supposed to be invoked, which, for them, is a feature not a bug (see also: god working in mysterious ways).  For us, it's a sure sign that all this talk about a magical plan (that we can sometimes foil?  Dunno ) from an all-seeing, all-powerful creator is just hogwash.  

Quote:Let's say a god does fiddle around with genetics,  then is a baby born with no brain (anencephaly) is that also a gift from god?  How about a child born with a genetic condition that allows the bones to break easily (can't think of the name of the disease)  and causes terrible pain.  Is that a gift from god?  How about malaria which has killed a couple billion people over human history, is that a gift from god?

This is exactly my life: https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseas...-congenita  It's believed that my Arthrogryposis was/is caused by MD.  In any event, the notion that a god 'blessed' me with this is... unsettling.
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#8

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 12:55 AM)KevinM1 Wrote:
(08-31-2021, 07:08 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: Somone Biles

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.  It's Simone Biles.  Simone is a French name, and my mother also has it as her first name (we have some French Canadian heritage in our family).

Now that that's out of the way, let's keep in mind that religious folks also invoke their purported creator's name for everything ranging from finding their lost car keys to eating a really good burrito to having an orgasm.  The breadth of its invocation is a sign that there's no real defined situations for when its powers are supposed to be invoked, which, for them, is a feature not a bug (see also: god working in mysterious ways).  For us, it's a sure sign that for all this talk about a magical plan (that we can sometimes foil?  Dunno ) from an all-seeing, all-powerful creator is just hogwash.  

Quote:Let's say a god does fiddle around with genetics,  then is a baby born with no brain (anencephaly) is that also a gift from god?  How about a child born with a genetic condition that allows the bones to break easily (can't think of the name of the disease)  and causes terrible pain.  Is that a gift from god?  How about malaria which has killed a couple billion people over human history, is that a gift from god?

This is exactly my life: https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseas...-congenita  It's believed that my Arthrogryposis was/is caused by MD.  In any event, the notion that a god 'blessed' me with this is... unsettling.

Kevin, you don't know me very well but I'm known for my bad spelling.  Sorry about the Simone.  Actually in that particular case I think I hit the wrong key by mistake.  

My nephew has a form of Muscular Dystrophy and isn't expected to live beyond the age of 8 or so.  The parents are trying eveything medically to help their son.  It's a heartbreaking situation.   If a god created the world he created this shit too and he's either too weak or too stupid to do anything about it or he's a mean ass bastard and a complete dick or he doesn't exist.  The Epicurian Paradox and the problem of suffering, it's one of many, many reason's to not believe in a god.
                                                         T4618
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#9

What does God actually do?
Ah, shit... I'm so sorry to hear that.

Yeah, no caring god would make disabled kids. Or give them cancer. Or have them live in places where their limbs are blown off by landmines. Or....
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#10

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 01:18 AM)KevinM1 Wrote: Ah, shit... I'm so sorry to hear that.

Yeah, no caring god would make disabled kids.  Or give them cancer.  Or have them live in places where their limbs are blown off by landmines.  Or....

Theists say "God has his reasons". What an excuse to forgive everything... I get ill on that one.
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#11

What does God actually do?
Whatever God may actually do, the thing he must surely excel at is hidingThumbs Up
No gods necessary
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#12

What does God actually do?
Posted this before. Its a story, and then a song, by Tim Minchin on the power of god + Prayer.

Make Your Own Future. Make Your Own Past. Its All Right Now. - Barry Allen
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#13

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 07:48 AM)OakTree500 Wrote: Posted this before. Its a story, and then a song, by Tim Minchin on the power of god + Prayer.


OK, I listened to that video for a couple of minutes. I couldn't figure out what he was getting at. But whether he was atheist or not, he is ONE BLITHERING IDIOT! LOL!
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#14

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 09:27 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 07:48 AM)OakTree500 Wrote: Posted this before. Its a story, and then a song, by Tim Minchin on the power of god + Prayer.


OK, I listened to that video for a couple of minutes.  I couldn't figure out what he was getting at.  But whether he was atheist or not, he is ONE BLITHERING IDIOT!  LOL!

Oh man, if you haven't made it to the song you should keep watching. He's a HARD atheist. The story is about a guy he met who tried to prove god caused a miracle, as the guy/the local congregation prayed for the healing of his mums bad eyes - which supposedly then actually worked.

The comedian then goes onto sing about it and point out how dumbasss that all is. very funny.
Make Your Own Future. Make Your Own Past. Its All Right Now. - Barry Allen
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#15

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 09:27 AM)Cavebear Wrote: OK, I listened to that video for a couple of minutes.  I couldn't figure out what he was getting at.  But whether he was atheist or not, he is ONE BLITHERING IDIOT!  LOL!

Unrelated to the thread title but this is classic Minchin, and its a bit easier to follow.

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#16

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 10:28 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 09:27 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 07:48 AM)OakTree500 Wrote: Posted this before. Its a story, and then a song, by Tim Minchin on the power of god + Prayer.


OK, I listened to that video for a couple of minutes.  I couldn't figure out what he was getting at.  But whether he was atheist or not, he is ONE BLITHERING IDIOT!  LOL!

Oh man, if you haven't made it to the song you should keep watching. He's a HARD atheist. The story is about a guy he met who tried to prove god caused a miracle, as the guy/the local congregation prayed for the healing of his mums bad eyes - which supposedly then actually worked.

The comedian then goes onto sing about it and point out how dumbasss that all is. very funny.

OK, I listened to the whole thing. I get he is an atheist. But the song still sucks, musically. I wouldn't listen to it twice. To each, their own.
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#17

What does God actually do?
Yes his singing sucks but then that's not what the guy's about.
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#18

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 12:19 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Yes his singing sucks but then that's not what the guy's about.

OK, but what's the point if the song makes no sense musically as spoken? Does he do something different off stage that makes more sense? I'm not trying to rag the guy, just don't get him...
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#19

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 12:28 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 12:19 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Yes his singing sucks but then that's not what the guy's about.

OK, but what's the point if the song makes no sense musically as spoken?  Does he do something different off stage that makes more sense?  I'm not trying to rag the guy, just don't get him...

He's more like a stand up comedian who adds a little music to his routine.   He does a song about the pope that wouldn't make Catholics very happy.   He's a pretty good pianist.  He started studying piano when he was 8 so he's pretty comfortable with the 88 keys.
                                                         T4618
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#20

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 03:30 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 12:28 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-01-2021, 12:19 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Yes his singing sucks but then that's not what the guy's about.

OK, but what's the point if the song makes no sense musically as spoken?  Does he do something different off stage that makes more sense?  I'm not trying to rag the guy, just don't get him...

He's more like a stand up comedian who adds a little music to his routine.   He does a song about the pope that wouldn't make Catholics very happy.   He's a pretty good pianist.  He started studying piano when he was 8 so he's pretty comfortable with the 88 keys.

OK. I just thought the pre-song patter and the song itself sucked. I mean, he seriously seemed drugged out. Give me Bill Maher any time...

I fully understand that there are some people "you just don't get" especially if they are unfamiliar. But if you offerred to pay me $10 to watch that video again, I would decline the offer.

I will admit though, that the song lyrics were densely compact and it was difficult to sing from memory... I'm not disrespecting his ability. In that regard, it was kind of impressive.
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#21

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 12:28 PM)Cavebear Wrote: OK, but what's the point if the song makes no sense musically as spoken?  Does he do something different off stage that makes more sense?  I'm not trying to rag the guy, just don't get him...

Mate... I'm sorry, but it's more than obvious you "don't get it". You've told us that four times LOL.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#22

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 03:43 PM)Cavebear Wrote: OK.  I just thought the pre-song patter and the song itself sucked.  I mean, he seriously seemed drugged out.  Give me Bill Maher any time...  

Ok, here's one you should get.

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#23

What does God actually do?
(08-31-2021, 06:15 PM)Teddy Wrote: I thought of another cognitive dissonance in Christianity during my walk today. Have you heard that saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? I was always taught this in the manner of "if you pray to pass the test, you have to put the work in and study. You can't just sit around and expect to pass the test based on prayer alone."

Why not? If I study for it, what is God's part in it? Like, where exactly is he helping? I would expect, if I study for something and memorize/understand the material, then yeah, no duh. I'll probably pass it. Prayer or no payer. Yet if I said a prayer, fully expecting to pass the test when not doing anything for it, wouldn't that be an example of devoted faith? Like, I believe so much I'll pass the test because I asked God to help me, that I don't need to study.

Why should god care about person doing nothing to win and expecting divine assistance to solve all their problems? I don't see any dissonance here - christianity that I'm familiar with does not promise everything on silver platter for token effort.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#24

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 12:55 AM)KevinM1 Wrote: Now that that's out of the way, let's keep in mind that religious folks also invoke their purported creator's name for everything ranging from finding their lost car keys to eating a really good burrito to having an orgasm.  The breadth of its invocation is a sign that there are no real defined situations for when its powers are supposed to be invoked, which, for them, is a feature not a bug (see also: god working in mysterious ways).  For us, it's a sure sign that all this talk about a magical plan (that we can sometimes foil?  Dunno ) from an all-seeing, all-powerful creator is just hogwash.
 






In addition to that they can get quite excited when their alleged god kills a shitload of people that they don't like!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/01/13/haiti.p...index.html

Quote:Pat Robertson says Haiti paying for 'pact to the devil'


Yeah.... loving fucking xtian shitheads!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#25

What does God actually do?
(09-01-2021, 06:27 AM)brunumb Wrote: Whatever God may actually do, the thing he must surely excel at is hidingThumbs Up

It's so true.  It's also true that invibile garden fairies are real good at hiding.   I've never seen any magical invisible unicorns but I'm told they're hiding everywhere.   Sneaky little imps, I must say.
                                                         T4618
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