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Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
#76

Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
Yo, Teddy.

See what you are missing?


https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/08/...were-told/


Quote:‘Outright lies were told’ — A behind-the-scenes look at the tithing dispute between the LDS Church and James Huntsman

New court documents reveal how the faith’s lawyers got personal in trying to forestall the filing of a federal fraud lawsuit.


Quote:Before their high-profile clash in federal court, lawyers for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and former Utahn James Huntsman sought for months to settle their tithing dispute privately in a series of muscle-flexing exchanges that at times turned caustic.
Huntsman, a California resident and brother of former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr., has since sued the church in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, accusing its leaders of fraud in their handling of billions of dollars in donations from church members, including his own giving.
The closely watched case is now in the hands of Judge Stephen Wilson, who is set to rule on a summary judgment motion by the Utah-based faith to have Huntsman’s fraud claims and demand for at least $5 million in tithing, interest and penalties thrown out.
New court documents indicate the failed settlement talks involved David Jordan, a prominent Salt Lake City-based attorney for the church, and lawyers in two states representing Huntsman in a back-and-forth focused as much on parsing aspects of Latter-day Saint doctrine and history as wrangling over opposing legal arguments.
The letters also show church attorneys delving deeply into Huntsman’s personal history as a member of the faith and into details about his well-known family, leading his lawyer to decry the questioning as “a transparent attempt to emotionally intimidate and shame my client.”


In any crime, follow the money.  The catholicks have been masters at it for centuries!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#77

Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
I haven't kept up with that one. But from what I hear, a lot of exmos are hopeful that Huntsman has the financial power to go toe to toe with the church in the courts for a long time. So many of these cases gets dismissed or fall away because they just don't have the financial stamina to keep going to court for as long as the LDS church is capable of doing.

The most recent case I was abreast of was Daybell and Vallow. Two extremists in the Mormon church who murdered Vallow's husband and kids together(burying them in the backyard), and kind of gathered a mini cult within the cult with a lot of end times military rhetoric.

The thing that is hot in Mormon and exmo land lately is a devotional given by the Apostle, Jeffrey R. Holland, wherein he talks about the LGBT presence and accepting attitudes at BYU, condemning it. He uses a metaphor of old saints being humble farmers, standing their ground and protecting the sanctity of the temples with musket fire. He praises this as valiant, which a lot of people(both inside and outside of the cult), myself included, have interpreted this language as threatening in its stance against LGBT.
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#78

Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
Yeah that case gathers a lot of attention here in Arizona because those two nuts used to live here and probably killed a couple of people while they were doing it.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#79

Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
I know a Mormon who was in a couple of plays with my husband.  I think one of them was Shakespeare.  Anyway, he's such a fish out of water around theatre people who can be a little hedonistic sometimes.  He doesn't get half the dirty jokes or snide remarks bandied around back stage.  He's almost like a 12 year who's still very innocent of the world.  But my husband and I are a little puzzled by his interest in theatre.  He and his wife can't have children and I think she has some mental issues to boot so their lives are a little different than most Mormans who have a lot of kids and family stuff going on.   We think he's using acting as an outlet for his frustrations or he might have doubts about his beliefs but he's stuck in the Mormon cult and that's where he'll stay.   

He's a very nice person, just a very sweet guy and thankfully he never proselytizes but as I said, he's so naive.  He went to France for a year with his wife and lived with a French family and came back still hermetically sealed inside Mormonism.   It's very weird.  It's like the Mormon brain doesn't allow worldly experiences and other cultures to penitrate the mind.  Well, with a few exceptions like you Teddy.
                                                         T4618
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#80

Confronting Missionaries [LDS]
(08-30-2021, 10:56 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: I know a Mormon who was in a couple of plays with my husband.  I think one of them was Shakespeare.  Anyway, he's such a fish out of water around theatre people who can be a little hedonistic sometimes.  He doesn't get half the dirty jokes or snide remarks bandied around back stage.  He's almost like a 12 year who's still very innocent of the world.  But my husband and I are a little puzzled by his interest in theatre.  He and his wife can't have children and I think she has some mental issues to boot so their lives are a little different than most Mormans who have a lot of kids and family stuff going on.   We think he's using acting as an outlet for his frustrations or he might have doubts about his beliefs but he's stuck in the Mormon cult and that's where he'll stay.   

He's a very nice person, just a very sweet guy and thankfully he never proselytizes but as I said, he's so naive.  He went to France for a year with his wife and lived with a French family and came back still hermetically sealed inside Mormonasm.   It's very weird.  It's like the Mormon brain doesn't allow worldly experiences and other cultures to penitrate the mind.  Well, with a few exceptions like you Teddy.

My outlet is writing and painting. Over the years, I've had times of activity in the church and inactivity. Always believed but just stopped going to church for one reason or another, usually out of not being able to handle the constant guilt and anxiety. During a few years of inactivity in my early 20's, I was introduced to erotic play-by-post writing/forum role-playing(where I always wrote as male characters, but didn't understand the comfort this retreat into fantasy gave to me until the past few years). So, I became familiar with the culture of erotica writers and written pornography. The contrast I would feel, between going to church and not going, was the ability to creatively express myself. And I developed habits surrounding this and my creative thought processes, to where during the times I was intense with the scrupulous religiosity and zealotry, I couldn't connect with myself creatively. All my artwork, all my writing is from the years here and there where I was not attending church, due to the repressive thought censorship that the church demands. You can't paint if you don't feel free inside your head to make mistakes, have a stupid daydream, feel stimulated about an image; all those fun little building blocks that lead up to inspiration.

I have noticed that contrast between the infantalization I had in the church, versus my ability to handle adult and mature things. Even just basic things like setting goals; my goal setting while active in church was bananas. So idealistic and optimistic to the point of being unrealistic and naive. Because I thought, "Whatever God tells me to do, he'll provide a way for me to achieve it." At one point, my major at BYU-I was English Education because I had prayed for inspiration. I'm not...what you would call a patient person. I have a lot of empathy and I like to teach others but if you're a stubborn student and you don't want to be there? Screw off, you know? Ain't got time and I am frustrated with them for not simply being a vessel to pour stuff into. But at the time, it didn't occur to me that I disliked kids or that I was a bit of an asshole sometimes. In fact, I was optimistic that learning patience and making a difference (read: subtly proselytizing IN a U.S. classroom) was what God had planned for me.

A better example of this infantalization is the dating scene in Rexburg, Idaho. I was 29 when I was out there going to school and the singles wards are church buildings where it's all young people 18+. They have a lot on account of all the college students. The cutoff age is 30. Once you're 30, you age out of the single wards and start attending the family wards where the married people and old people go to church.

Anyway, the singles wards would run weekly activities to get everyone in the same ward together so they could mingle outside of Sunday school. During the winter and fall, we'd have movie nights and game nights at someone's house. Like, board games or "get to know you" games. During the summer, they would have outdoor activities, like lawn water slides, water balloon fights, night tag in the park, etc. I attended one of these social events in the summer and decided to go to a family ward that day. Because it wasn't real courtship. It was like a bunch of kids running around in 20 year old bodies.

Don't get me wrong, there are certainly ways to make water balloons a sexy, flirty, adult social activity. But we're obviously talking about a very basic, innocent version of playing. Being "like a child" is not exclusive to Mormonism's Christianity but they take it very seriously to the point where grown adults do not watch R-rated movies, and any sex, drinking, or swearing, even just once, is seen as an out of control addiction.
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