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Most religions have a version of this idea...
#26

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 05:11 PM)Critic Wrote: I found an image that has a quote from several religions around the world with their phrasing of the golden rule.  Does anyone know how to post an image?

A variety of instructions are posted here for reference:

https://atheistdiscussion.org/forums/sho...7#pid30287
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#27

Most religions have a version of this idea...
Quote:Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself." 



Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#28

Most religions have a version of this idea...
The KJV was heavily edited from prior versions.
  [Image: attachment.php?aid=31] Dog  
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#29

Most religions have a version of this idea...
[Image: goldenrule1.jpg?w=768]
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#30

Most religions have a version of this idea...
Religions think atheists are wrong. Religions think other religions are wrong. They're right but not for the reasons they think.
  [Image: attachment.php?aid=31] Dog  
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#31

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 10:46 AM)SYZ Wrote: Exodus 21:12  —Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

This specific example isn't breaking the principle of ethical reciprocity. In fact, it's built upon it. The entire idea that the punishment of a fault should match the fault, the famous "an eye for an eye", is rigorous reciprocity.
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#32

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 05:11 PM)Critic Wrote: I found an image that has a quote from several religions around the world with their phrasing of the golden rule.  Does anyone know how to post an image?

Go to postimage.com , drop your image in, wait for the results, copy the second link. come here, open a reply, look up and you dee an icon of a picture. Click on it, remove the Http, paste your link in.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#33

Most religions have a version of this idea...
Golden Rule is nice. I was recently involved in a discussion about it with Christians on another forum. As many point out, it's not unique to Christianity. But, that's okay. Still good that it's included in the Christian doctrine. It's a great principle. And when a Christian is head-over-heels into nationalism, I get to toss it in their face. Angel

Anyway, there are several issues to bring up. Is it central to Christianity? As others have pointed out, many Christians throughout history have ignored it in the name of their religion. Falling short of the rule is one thing. Ignoring the rule because of another Bible verse is what bothers me.

Another question is: How central is it to Christianity? Some people say, it is a corollary or the second greatest commandment, and therefore should supercede all other commandments. Other people think it's "just another rule in the Bible" and if another Bible verse advocates treating someone how you wouldn't want to be treated (which many do) then it's fine to ignore it. If you take the latter as a principle, then you're pretty much free to do anything in the name of your religion, no matter how heinous or cruel.

Then you have interpretive liberties to deal with. You wanna set people on fire because they don't believe in Jesus? Sure, deterring people from atheism might save them from eternal hellfire. I'd want to be saved from eternal hellfire, therefore the Golden Rule doesn't forbid me setting people on fire because they reject Jesus.

This last point is the weakest concern, methinks. It's like "Does that mean people who are into S&M can go around whipping people?" Anybody who thinks about it for two seconds will realize that, "no" the Golden Rule doesn't allow that. But then again, there ARE fundamentalists churches where things like "thinking for two seconds" is very much frowned upon...
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#34

Most religions have a version of this idea...
The human imagination has invented thousands of gods.  Relgitards reject all but one of them.  As an atheist, I reject them all!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#35

Most religions have a version of this idea...
[Image: tumblr-lv3fpumag-C1qe5zfqo1-1280-waifu2x...-tta-1.png]

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Not at work.
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#36

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 10:28 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Another question is: How central is it to Christianity? Some people say, it is a corollary or the second greatest commandment, and therefore should supercede all other commandments.
I say it didn't even make it into the "top ten". Want evidence?
R.I.P. Hannes
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#37

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself." 



Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.
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#38

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 06:25 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 10:28 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Another question is: How central is it to Christianity? Some people say, it is a corollary or the second greatest commandment, and therefore should supercede all other commandments.
I say it didn't even make it into the "top ten". Want evidence?

There's perspective I've heard that the laws in the Old Testinent of the bible, all go into more detail for how to follow the 10 commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain top.  There are very few if any that I could see as an exception to this perspective.  The first three of the 10 commandments deal with our relationship with God,the last 7 deal with our relationships and dealings with each other.  This shows that Jesus was right when He sumed up all the laws from 1) loving God with all your heart, strength, and mind; and 2) Loving your neighbor as yourself.
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#39

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 10:28 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Golden Rule is nice. I was recently involved in a discussion about it with Christians on another forum. As many point out, it's not unique to Christianity. But, that's okay. Still good that it's included in the Christian doctrine. It's a great principle. And when a Christian is head-over-heels into nationalism, I get to toss it in their face.  Angel

Anyway, there are several issues to bring up. Is it central to Christianity? As others have pointed out, many Christians throughout history have ignored it in the name of their religion. Falling short of the rule is one thing. Ignoring the rule because of another Bible verse is what bothers me.

Another question is: How central is it to Christianity? Some people say, it is a corollary or the second greatest commandment, and therefore should supercede all other commandments. Other people think it's "just another rule in the Bible" and if another Bible verse advocates treating someone how you wouldn't want to be treated (which many do) then it's fine to ignore it. If you take the latter as a principle, then you're pretty much free to do anything in the name of your religion, no matter how heinous or cruel.

Then you have interpretive liberties to deal with. You wanna set people on fire because they don't believe in Jesus? Sure, deterring people from atheism might save them from eternal hellfire. I'd want to be saved from eternal hellfire, therefore the Golden Rule doesn't forbid me setting people on fire because they reject Jesus.

This last point is the weakest concern, methinks. It's like "Does that mean people who are into S&M can go around whipping people?" Anybody who thinks about it for two seconds will realize that, "no" the Golden Rule doesn't allow that. But then again, there ARE fundamentalists churches where things like "thinking for two seconds" is very much frowned upon...

Nationalism.... I get the idea to be proud of your country, no matter which country you are from.  And God's instructions to Israel did often put Israel's people, foundations, and faith, as worth protecting and safeguarding compared to the foreigners living in Israel, and the nations around Israel.  So arguably there is that aspect for doing the same with our own nations and keeping the integrity of our people, customs and foundational laws.  

However,if you want to correct people for nationalism to the point ofhating foreigners, there are several verses in the bible that teach or re-empathise that we should treat foreigners fairly, and help them out.  Even laws to not harvest everything in your crops, but leave some left over for the poor and the forigner that lives among them.  What I mean is if you want specifics besides just love your neighbor, there are more verses that in my opinion encourage us to treat foreigners and immigrants much better then most nations have a habit of treating them.
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#40

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself." 



Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.

Most Old Testament scholars date Leviticus to around 540 to 340 BC during the exile and post exilic period.
                                                         T4618
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#41

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 02:55 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 06:25 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 10:28 PM)vulcanlogician Wrote: Another question is: How central is it to Christianity? Some people say, it is a corollary or the second greatest commandment, and therefore should supercede all other commandments.
I say it didn't even make it into the "top ten". Want evidence?

There's perspective I've heard that the laws in the Old Testinent of the bible, all go into more detail for how to follow the 10 commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain top.  There are very few if any that I could see as an exception to this perspective.  The first three of the 10 commandments deal with our relationship with God,the last 7 deal with our relationships and dealings with each other.  This shows that Jesus was right when He sumed up all the laws from 1) loving God with all your heart, strength, and mind; and 2) Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Are the ten commandments the most important "rules" to follow in christianity?
Is the golden rule one of them?
R.I.P. Hannes
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#42

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 05:52 PM)epronovost Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 10:46 AM)SYZ Wrote: Exodus 21:12  —Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

This specific example isn't breaking the principle of ethical reciprocity. In fact, it's built upon it. The entire idea that the punishment of a fault should match the fault, the famous "an eye for an eye", is rigorous reciprocity.

I like the idea if "love your neighbor as yourself," or any other way to phrase the golden rule, because it's not just about giving what you get with an "eye for an eye" kind of standard for justice.  It's more than that.  Instead of treating others the way they treat you, it's treat them the way you want to be treated.  Even in the parts of the bible where there is justice involved, there is another layer of reconciliation that keeps on being brought up.  I get the feeling that the treat others the way you want to be treated goes in the same type of mindset as having a lot of forgiveness and reconciling people when they turn away from the wrongs they've done.  The vibe I get is to be a force in the world to help it, instead of just take advantage of it.
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#43

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 03:16 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:52 PM)epronovost Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 10:46 AM)SYZ Wrote: Exodus 21:12  —Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death.

This specific example isn't breaking the principle of ethical reciprocity. In fact, it's built upon it. The entire idea that the punishment of a fault should match the fault, the famous "an eye for an eye", is rigorous reciprocity.

I like the idea if "love your neighbor as yourself," or any other way to phrase the golden rule, because it's not just about giving what you get with an "eye for an eye" kind of standard for justice.  It's more than that.  Instead of treating others the way they treat you, it's treat them the way you want to be treated.  Even in the parts of the bible where there is justice involved, there is another layer of reconciliation that keeps on being brought up.  I get the feeling that the treat others the way you want to be treated goes in the same type of mindset as having a lot of forgiveness and reconciling people when they turn away from the wrongs they've done.  The vibe I get is to be a force in the world to help it, instead of just take advantage of it.

It's all very nice however I must ask how you reconcile this with the fact that your god is space Hitler without ridiculous mustache? His actions really put all of alleged Bible and christianity niceness into question.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#44

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself." 



Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.


I hate to break this to you, son, but there is no evidence of your silly fucking bible existing in written form prior to the 3d century BCE when a portion of it was written in Greek.

You obviously fall for anything some religious asshole tells you.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#45

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 03:10 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.

Most Old Testament scholars date Leviticus to around 540 to 340 BC during the exile and post exilic period.

That sounds off.  Leviticus was one of the main books in the old testament times.  Later on when Israel started to have a king as a ruler, Genesis through Deuteronomy were recommended to he read, ad well as have it read during at least one of the celebration festivals that were passed on within the bible.  To say that Leviticus was written only during or after the evil period sounds like a a huge miscalculation.
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#46

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 03:12 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 02:55 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 06:25 AM)Deesse23 Wrote: I say it didn't even make it into the "top ten". Want evidence?

There's perspective I've heard that the laws in the Old Testinent of the bible, all go into more detail for how to follow the 10 commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain top.  There are very few if any that I could see as an exception to this perspective.  The first three of the 10 commandments deal with our relationship with God,the last 7 deal with our relationships and dealings with each other.  This shows that Jesus was right when He sumed up all the laws from 1) loving God with all your heart, strength, and mind; and 2) Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Are the ten commandments the most important "rules" to follow in christianity?
Is the golden rule one of them?

Native Americans have a version of this which goes back to before White people arrived.   It's foundation is from the perspective of honoring Mother Earth which is a living breathing thing and sustains us. If she gets sick, we all get sick.  To them she should be respected.  (They're right about that too.) When the Native Indians honor Mother Earth she in turn respects your life. It is essentially the golden rule and teaches us how to live in the natural world.    It's a wonderful philosophy.
                                                         T4618
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#47

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 03:26 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 03:10 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote: Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.

Most Old Testament scholars date Leviticus to around 540 to 340 BC during the exile and post exilic period.

That sounds off.  Leviticus was one of the main books in the old testament times.  Later on when Israel started to have a king as a ruler, Genesis through Deuteronomy were recommended to he read, ad well as have it read during at least one of the celebration festivals that were passed on within the bible.  To say that Leviticus was written only during or after the evil period sounds like a a huge miscalculation.

Ummm, the writing of the Bible happened far later than most Christians think but that's another discussion,  maybe another thread.  Feel free to start it.   Old Testament scholars date most of the writing of the Bible to the exilic period most of which are based on old tribal lore which is the reason archaeology often does not align with the Bible stories.  For instance, there is zero evidence Moses existed or that Exodus ever happened.  Just sayin.
                                                         T4618
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#48

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-19-2021, 05:15 PM)Alan V Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:10 PM)Critic Wrote: Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself."  

As for the rest when it comes to justice in each religion or even divine judgement sort of thing, that is a counter point, but it us also explainable based on the outlook of the religion and it's set of rules/rational.

Religions are full of contradictions and rationalizations.  It's human nature to try to make sense of such things, especially if you have something you think is divine to try to justify.

The best source to both understand and defend any religion, comes from those in that religion.  Looking at it from outside of the religion often fails to see the bigger picture with the right framework and so they weaken any of the persoectives of that religion that work with each other and give a philosophical structure to it.  Though looking at a religion as an outsider is a great tool to help question a religion and make sure the people or the religion is actually doing right, in order to defend a religion, any religion. It has to come from those inside the religion itself.  Sorry I'll pass on atheist debunking religions as contradicting itself when seen from an atheist mindset, just as much as I would pass on any other religion debunking another philosophy or religion as being contradicting.
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#49

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 03:10 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

Loving your neighbor, is a concept before Pitticus Mytilene.  It's first writteninthe bible in Leviticus 19:18.  The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC.  So it's at least that old.  Just for your information.

Most Old Testament scholars date Leviticus to around 540 to 340 BC during the exile and post exilic period.

Without looking it up I'm pretty sure ancient Egypt and China had their versions of the golden rule.
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#50

Most religions have a version of this idea...
(08-20-2021, 02:45 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-19-2021, 05:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Islam has it's own version as well.  "Not one of you truly believe until you wish for others what you wish for yourself." 



Pitticus of Mytilene had the same idea....

[Image: quote-do-not-to-your-neighbor-what-you-w...259498.jpg]


six centuries or so before this jesus-guy was invented.

The book of Leviticus was written around 1400BC. 
What are your sources?
Because modern bible scholars agree, it was written around 650BC in the Babylonian exile.
R.I.P. Hannes
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