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A plea against bigotry
#26

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:08 PM)Critic Wrote: Again I wasn't there, but it sounds like the Chaplin was telling your brother to let God deal with it.  Not try to force you (especially at that moment) to become a Christian.  Also I wouldn't blame the cgaplin for coming if he was asked to by your family.  He's just doing what was asked of him.  As for intelligent design, there is no explainable theory to predict nature, do in a science class it don't have a lot of space to discuss.  However there are still legitine reasons to conclude the universe was an intricukate design.  Even to the poi t if saying it was engineered thus way.  A decent way to transition to the study of nature, astronomy, anatomy, biology, and physics.  And create awe for those sciences studying how the world fits together.  So yeah, though I don't think intelligent design should be removed from schools, I think it has a limited amount to discuss.

Is English your first language or are you using a translator?
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#27

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 08:19 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:13 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Critic Wrote: I think there needs to be an open discussion of ethics and bigotry within the atheist community.  And here's my reasoning.  More and more I see atheists go on the attack against religious people, it dies not matter the religion of if the religious person did anything wrong outside of bring religious in some way.  Even Richard Dawkins encourages this behavior to publicly humiliate and ridicule anyone who's religious if you ever get the chance.  To the point that I see innocant people publicly called out as criminal, crazy, and abusive, when they show no signs of any of these.  There's still time to step away from these kinds of attitudes and not cause atheism to become a form of bigotry.  Spread the word.  Whatever ethics you hold on to use those ethics to fight bigotry from forming within your peers of Atheist.  Thank you.

You do realize that in the US atheists are banned from running for any office in 7 states.  Please explain the "ethics" behind this sort of bigotry towards atheists.    I'l wait.

Which states?  Sounds like something worth bringing up to those states.  But no, I was not aware of this.  I've never tried to run for office so I don't know the rules to join the tactics that politicians engage in.  The less politician like people are the better in my opinion, so I don't relate to this outcry as much.

Because it doesn't affect you, you can't be assed to know about it or worry about it, or to support the rights of the classes of people harmed by it? If you aren't black, you don't care about bigotry against blacks? If you're comfortably heterosexual, you don't care about bigotry against those who aren't?
god, ugh
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#28

A plea against bigotry
Really, critic has been polite and to the point. He admitted he didn't know about those laws. I admit, I didn't either. What's wrong with not knowing something? We all know stuff some others don't.

I don't understand all the venom. It's premature at best.
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#29

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:21 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 09:08 PM)Critic Wrote: As for intelligent design, there is no explainable theory to predict nature

Hold up.

We do have an "explainable theory to predict nature". It's called the Standard Model. Now it's incomplete, sure, but we can still predict a lot of things with it and has been extremely useful.

I apologize.  What I mean is that intelligent design doesn't explain things in how they work, or predict how they will be.  At least I haven't see anything that does and counts as intelligent design anyways.  What it dies do is acknowledge the obviousness of design that we can see from enough study of the natural world.  Dies that help clear up what I meant?
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#30

A plea against bigotry
Yeah, I take the "feeling sad" bit back. Garden variety Xtian apparently.

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“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#31

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:40 PM)Dom Wrote: Really, critic has been polite and to the point. He admitted he didn't know about those laws. I admit, I didn't either. What's wrong with not knowing something? We all know stuff some others don't.

I don't understand all the venom. It's premature at best.
Well, so far Critic has "politely" claimed ignorance of discriminatory laws, okay, and then given a excuse absolving the religious for every other instance of bias and bigotry on this thread. 

How are the equally polite responses pushing back on Critic's hypocrisy venomous?
god, ugh
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#32

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:43 PM)julep Wrote: Well, so far Critic has "politely" claimed ignorance of discriminatory laws, okay, and then given a excuse absolving the religious for every other instance of bias and bigotry on this thread. 

How are the equally polite responses pushing back on Critic's hypocrisy venomous?

Because this one - this very special, unique one, among all the other ones - is actually here genuinely and sincerely with no hidden agenda and prejudices. For realz this time. Cross his heart, etc. Deadpan Coffee Drinker

And round and round the mulberry bush we go again.

(And mulberries are freaking trees, not a bush Dodgy )
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#33

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:40 PM)Critic Wrote: What it dies do is acknowledge the obviousness of design that we can see from enough study of the natural world.  Dies that help clear up what I meant?

Yes, but not in a good way. ID no more explains the forms we see in nature than does the game Civilization explain how society arose.
Freedom isn't free.
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#34

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:08 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:50 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:38 PM)Critic Wrote: But in my opinion it sounds like the people were of a different set of philosophies than you are, and they shared their views with you.   
 

Um, religious ideas like intelligent design, which is also a pseudoscience, shouldn't be expressed by a teacher during a  class, for one thing, unless a student asks about it. It was totally unprompted. Secondly, how was the Chaplain just "sharing their views" with me? They made their claim as a statement of fact and were categorically claiming I was wrong about my own perspective. And why should I have to deal with that as a family member is dying, and why is it OK for someone to bring a Chaplain in for a prayer for a nonbeliever who would not have wanted that? Thirdly, why is it OK for a music teacher, who should only be talking about music, to be antagonistic towards atheists? There's no reason why a music teacher should be bringing up their beliefs about atheists.

Again I wasn't there, but it sounds like the Chaplin was telling your brother to let God deal with it.  Not try to force you (especially at that moment) to become a Christian.  Also I wouldn't blame the cgaplin for coming if he was asked to by your family.  He's just doing what was asked of him.  As for intelligent design, there is no explainable theory to predict nature, do in a science class it don't have a lot of space to discuss.  However there are still legitine reasons to conclude the universe was an intricukate design.  Even to the poi t if saying it was engineered thus way.  A decent way to transition to the study of nature, astronomy, anatomy, biology, and physics.  And create awe for those sciences studying how the world fits together.  So yeah, though I don't think intelligent design should be removed from schools, I think it has a limited amount to discuss.

No, sorry. Intelligent design and (critical race theory too, for that matter) have no business being in schools.

We can explain a lot of how the universe formed (that part is science) and the rest is for kids to talk about with their families.

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#35

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:40 PM)Dom Wrote: Really, critic has been polite and to the point. He admitted he didn't know about those laws. I admit, I didn't either. What's wrong with not knowing something? We all know stuff some others don't.

I don't understand all the venom. It's premature at best.

Seventy years of people looking down their noses at me, nothing changed today.
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#36

A plea against bigotry
In your introduction thread you wrote this....


"Two things I do not like is hypocrisy, and assuming you know a person better than they know themselves."

This is perhaps something you may not realize about atheists, we too hate hypocrites.  It's particularly grievous when in 2016 we witnessed "good Christians" going out of their way to install a morally bankrupt man as President of the United States who claimed the Bible was his "favorite book" yet couldn't muster up even one single verse from it's 1200 pages.  As far as we atheists can see hypocrisy has been the prevailing mantra of Chistians for many years now.
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#37

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:03 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: In your introduction thread you wrote this....


"Two things I do not like is hypocrisy, and assuming you know a person better than they know themselves."

This is perhaps something you may not realize about atheists, we too hate hypocrites.  It's particularly grievous when in 2016 we witnessed "good Christians" going out of their way to install a morally bankrupt man as President of the United States who claimed the Bible was his "favorite book" yet couldn't muster up even one single verse from it's 1200 pages.  As far as we atheists can see hypocrisy has been the prevailing mantra of Chistians for many years now.
OP had no trouble calling us hypocrites. I was laughing too hard to notice if he demanded respect in the same paragraph.
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#38

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Critic Wrote: I think there needs to be an open discussion of ethics and bigotry within the atheist community.  And here's my reasoning.  More and more I see atheists go on the attack against religious people,

How are the Sunni and Shia getting along these days?

Quote:As many as 4,000 people are estimated to have been killed by Shia-Sunni sectarian attacks in Pakistan between 1987–2007. And since 2008, thousands of Shia have been killed by Sunni extremists.
Wiki

Quote:The story, as told, usually goes something like this: 1,400 years ago, during the seventh century, there was a schism among Muslims over who would succeed as leader of the faithful, and that schism led to a civil war. The two sides became known as Sunni and Shia, and they hated one another, a people divided, ever since. This ancient sectarian hatred, simmering just beneath the surface for centuries, explains the Sunni-Shia violence today in places such as Syria and Iraq, as well as the worsening tension between Saudi Arabia, which is officially Sunni, and Iran, which is officially Shia.
Vox
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#39

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:09 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:23 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:11 PM)Critic Wrote: That said though, go ahead and point out the issues you have been ostrized, ridiculed, humiliated, and wronged, as a common behavior.  If it is stopping you from bring civil yo others than it's also worth talking about here as well.  Have you been wronged repeating by a religious community? And if so how, and how often?

Where I live, people are friendly and invite you to join their church. No matter how you reply, whether you say you are atheist or just say "maybe later", they avoid you when you don't show up for worship. There is no "community" for atheists.

I work with interior designers.  I've had them drop my services because I politely declined their invitation to join them at chruch.  We live in a Christian centric world, in the US at least, and religious people don't understand why we're pissed off.  They figure Christianity is the default position and we're evil, baby eating folks.  Yeah, we get a little angry.

That is some serious scrap.  I hope you find reliable costumers in spite of this.  From my end of the dense though I'm of the opposite figuring.  When I see a business almost bragging about being a Christian, I figure they are fishing for Christian costumers and potentially trying to scam people, or provide substandard service leaning gravely on being part of the same group that they say they are.  Money, in a general sense gas sharks in it no matter where you cone from.  Again I hope you find success and stability in your field.
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#40

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:22 PM)Inkubus Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 07:16 PM)Critic Wrote: I think there needs to be an open discussion of ethics and bigotry within the atheist community.  And here's my reasoning.  More and more I see atheists go on the attack against religious people,

How are the Sunni and Shia getting along these days?

Quote:As many as 4,000 people are estimated to have been killed by Shia-Sunni sectarian attacks in Pakistan between 1987–2007. And since 2008, thousands of Shia have been killed by Sunni extremists.
Wiki

Quote:The story, as told, usually goes something like this: 1,400 years ago, during the seventh century, there was a schism among Muslims over who would succeed as leader of the faithful, and that schism led to a civil war. The two sides became known as Sunni and Shia, and they hated one another, a people divided, ever since. This ancient sectarian hatred, simmering just beneath the surface for centuries, explains the Sunni-Shia violence today in places such as Syria and Iraq, as well as the worsening tension between Saudi Arabia, which is officially Sunni, and Iran, which is officially Shia.
Vox

People never learn it seems, not in 1,400 years and probably not ever.
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#41

A plea against bigotry
Never mind.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#42

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:36 PM)julep Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:19 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:13 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: You do realize that in the US atheists are banned from running for any office in 7 states.  Please explain the "ethics" behind this sort of bigotry towards atheists.    I'l wait.

Which states?  Sounds like something worth bringing up to those states.  But no, I was not aware of this.  I've never tried to run for office so I don't know the rules to join the tactics that politicians engage in.  The less politician like people are the better in my opinion, so I don't relate to this outcry as much.

Because it doesn't affect you, you can't be assed to know about it or worry about it, or to support the rights of the classes of people harmed by it? If you aren't black, you don't care about bigotry against blacks? If you're comfortably heterosexual, you don't care about bigotry against those who aren't?

I do care about blacks, and I care about homosexuals.  Your assumption is wrong.  Either way though, even if you don't believe me, it does not change who I am, so I'll move on.  ... Unless you wish to discuss how to help either community.  Because I see that as a worth while discussion to explore.  One idea I have would be have a mandatory class for public schools curriculums.  To have a class on healthy relationships.  This would help the general population, but also help minorities who have a higher rate of single parent households trying to raise their kids, minorities that have a higher rate of abusive parents and creating expectations for abuse in their kids, as well as help homosexuals that that gave a higher rate of abuse in their relationships.  This solution will help the demographic pull itself out of poverty if it's in there, as well as help the next generation have a stable hone to help them when other issues arise, so they are less likely to get draged into poverty, crime, or drug abuse.  If you have other solutions lets hear it.  Otherwise if you want ti tell me you know me better than I know myself, I'll pass and move on to another comment.
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#43

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 09:40 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 09:21 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 09:08 PM)Critic Wrote: As for intelligent design, there is no explainable theory to predict nature

Hold up.

We do have an "explainable theory to predict nature". It's called the Standard Model. Now it's incomplete, sure, but we can still predict a lot of things with it and has been extremely useful.

I apologize.  What I mean is that intelligent design doesn't explain things in how they work, or predict how they will be.  At least I haven't see anything that does and counts as intelligent design anyways.  What it dies do is acknowledge the obviousness of design that we can see from enough study of the natural world.  Dies that help clear up what I meant?


(08-15-2021, 09:40 PM)Critic Wrote: what it dies do is acknowledge the obviousness of design that we can see from enough study of the natural world.

Hummm. Perhaps you haven't been paying too much attention to the natural world lately.  There's a virus that has killed 5 million people worldwide and it's mutated into a even more beautifully designed killing machine and is now killing even more people.  Was it designed by your god?  If so you and your god have some 'esplaining to do.   The Bubonic Plague of the 13th century killed 200 million people.  Did your god "design" that one too? 

You may not understand this but if you come here with "god claims" you need to back up your assertions with evidence.   It would be greatly appreciated.
                                                         T4618
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#44

A plea against bigotry
A plea against bigotry which starts with a broad-brushing of atheists as angry ... mmkay.
Freedom isn't free.
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#45

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: A plea against bigotry which starts with a broad-brushing of atheists as angry ... mmkay.

While lying by omission (this is, coming to an atheist forum *not* divulging in one's introductory post that one is actually religious)... mmkay.
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#46

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:41 PM)Critic Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 09:36 PM)julep Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 08:19 PM)Critic Wrote: Which states?  Sounds like something worth bringing up to those states.  But no, I was not aware of this.  I've never tried to run for office so I don't know the rules to join the tactics that politicians engage in.  The less politician like people are the better in my opinion, so I don't relate to this outcry as much.

Because it doesn't affect you, you can't be assed to know about it or worry about it, or to support the rights of the classes of people harmed by it? If you aren't black, you don't care about bigotry against blacks? If you're comfortably heterosexual, you don't care about bigotry against those who aren't?

I do care about blacks, and I care about homosexuals.  Your assumption is wrong.  Either way though, even if you don't believe me, it does not change who I am, so I'll move on.  ... Unless you wish to discuss how to help either community.  Because I see that as a worth while discussion to explore.  One idea I have would be have a mandatory class for public schools curriculums.  To have a class on healthy relationships.  This would help the general population, but also help minorities who have a higher rate of single parent households trying to raise their kids, minorities that have a higher rate of abusive parents and creating expectations for abuse in their kids, as well as help homosexuals that that gave a higher rate of abuse in their relationships.  This solution will help the demographic pull itself out of poverty if it's in there, as well as help the next generation have a stable hone to help them when other issues arise, so they are less likely to get draged into poverty, crime, or drug abuse.  If you have other solutions lets hear it.  Otherwise if you want ti tell me you know me better than I know myself, I'll pass and move on to another comment.

What minorities need are social programs and a good education  to help them out of poverty but social programs and education funds are constantly vetoed by Christian politicians or hacked up so much it doesn't make any difference.  And it would greatly help if minorities could vote for people who would represent their needs, but guess what, religious right Christian politicians are going out of their way to make voting for minorities as difficult as they possibly can.  Trumpie was allowed to vote via mail from an unauthorized address but he screamed bloody hell when black people mailed in their ballots.  This dick move by conservative Christian politicians doesn't exactly endear us to Christianity. 

Having said that, I know many Christians who are liberal minded and progressive but the prevailing political wind with the loudest kicking and screaming against minorities voting rights and social programs generally comes from religious right nuts.
                                                         T4618
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#47

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:57 PM)Vera Wrote:
(08-15-2021, 10:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: A plea against bigotry which starts with a broad-brushing of atheists as angry ... mmkay.

While lying by omission (this is, coming to an atheist forum *not* divulging in one's introductory post that one is actually religious)... mmkay.
It was blatantly obvious. Facepalm
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#48

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 11:12 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: It was blatantly obvious.  Facepalm

'Pparently I'm (still) naiver than I thought - I thought it was one of those loons we get occasionally, who have a pet theory or five and are just looking for yet another platform from which to spout it at innocent passers-by.

Oh well.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#49

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:03 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: In your introduction thread you wrote this....


"Two things I do not like is hypocrisy, and assuming you know a person better than they know themselves."

This is perhaps something you may not realize about atheists, we too hate hypocrites.  It's particularly grievous when in 2016 we witnessed "good Christians" going out of their way to install a morally bankrupt man as President of the United States who claimed the Bible was his "favorite book" yet couldn't muster up even one single verse from it's 1200 pages. 

Hang on now that's not completely fair to Trump...he did say his favorite book in the bible was One Corinthians.  [/joke]
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#50

A plea against bigotry
(08-15-2021, 10:41 PM)Critic Wrote: [...] minorities that have a higher rate of abusive parents and creating expectations for abuse in their kids, as well as help homosexuals that that gave a higher rate of abuse in their relationships.

Claims like this should be presented with reliable sources, don'tcha think?
Freedom isn't free.
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