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Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
#76

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist. It however made somewhat sense in 1800s when it was added to criticize the flaws religious stuff could be in society. (But i love supression fetish to some level so i am weird that way?). But i do wonder if Atheism as a ideology, if that developed into socialism, interms of manipulative behavior etc?

Anyone who replies to this post wants fucking.
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#77

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 08:08 PM)julep Wrote: Norway conforms to the model of Scandinavian socialism, and if the poster in question is going to call leftists in the US and all left-leaning atheists socialists, I feel okay using this term.  In regard to the way "socialist" is used by conservatives in the US, Norway counts as a socialist country.

Sure, but according to conservatives in USA nearly everything is socialism.

I get why you use the term but for me Norway isn't socialist.

Quote:I don't agree with the communist-based definition of socialism as a transitional state on the way to communism.  A fair number of European socialists seem to accept that there's an intermediate position between every means of production owned by workers and social supports provided by the welfare state, which are paid for by the citizens.

I do accept Marxist theory definition just as I acknowledge few others. There is no one definition that I saw that would make Norway socialist though.  

Frankly for me socialism is mostly an utopia, like Malia wrote in a book quoted in my previous post.

Quote:If you can get your healthcare for free or near that, don't have to worry about starving to death or dying in a workhouse, can afford lodging, can get a good, free education that leads to a well-paying job, don't have to go broke paying for childcare, etc., because the government is paying for or subsidizing it, then--according to people in the US--you are living in a socialist system.  'Cause the robber barons don't have to worry about none of that shit.

Robber barons scare mongering isn't a good reason to use terminology they're favoring, at least for me. Why play game with their rules?
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#78

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
Last I checked, @brewerb is still a conservative.

Sad and unfortunate, I know.
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#79

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist. It however made somewhat sense in 1800s when it was added to criticize the flaws religious stuff could be in society. (But i love supression fetish to some level so i am weird that way?). But i do wonder if Atheism as a ideology, if that developed into socialism, interms of manipulative behavior etc?

^^^ The lack of intelligence above is quite disturbing, I must say!

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#80

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
When Social Security began under Truman, they said it was socialism.
When Medicare started under Johnson, they said it was socialism.
Now, try to take either away from conservative seniors, and the world would fall on your head.
TANF, LIHEAP, WIC, SNAP and AFDC were all called socialism, when they were passed and signed.

Trump said he would do nothing to Social Security. People believed the liar.
He was in the process trying to bankrupt it, (which was one of the aims of Trump's tax cut), with the then Speaker, Paul Ryan, but they lost the House.
It's why Ryan, a so-called fiscal conservative, was wetting his pants with glee, at the White House for the signing.
It was step one of his plan he had been talking and writing about since he was in college.

Cutting Social Security benefits was (maybe still is) Paul Ryan's life-long dream, (a hypocritical Catholic who wants to take health care away from old sick people).  
Jesus is so proud of him.

Has Bernie Sanders even once proposed that the state own the means of production ?
Nope. He has proposed "Medicare for all", which we already pay for, as no hospital can refuse admission to any patient who arrives in trouble,
(or they get their Medicare provider number yanked), AND we still pay the bill anyway.    
Yeah, the US is not a socialist country ... far from it.

And the Democrats who are called socialists are not socialists.
I fart in your general direction.  Angel
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#81

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 09:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:36 PM)seaside Wrote: No what i mean is Socialism and Atheism works hand in hand in manipulating people to think like them, aka they are manipulation culture. I think you have to convert to Christianity for you to take part in their community... which is not gonna happen :Smile
You still have not defined socialism.
I suspect here, "socialism" means "stuff I was told I should be against".  Certainly no more thought than that has gone into it.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#82

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist.

Ayn Rand. Also there are some conservative atheists on this forum. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.  Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#83

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-12-2021, 04:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: And the Democrats who are called socialists are not socialists.

(07-12-2021, 04:27 AM)trdsf Wrote: I suspect here, "socialism" means "stuff I was told I should be against".  Certainly no more thought than that has gone into it.

Exactly.

Per Dictionary.com, "socialism" is defined as "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government."

Democrats think businesses and capital should be regulated and taxed for the good of the community in general. They think the highest power in the country should be the government (the people actually) rather than businesses and the wealthy. As Bucky pointed out, it is now a foregone conclusion that government regulations and taxation work for the people, even for the businesses and the wealthy themselves since they support a strong middle class. The question now is always, "how much regulation and taxation" -- and that is subject to on-going debate. Conservatives (really propagandists) who say little more than "socialism is bad" or "Democrats are socialists" aren't even a part of that debate. At best, they are promoting a slippery slope argument that more regulation and taxation will ultimately lead to socialism -- a fallacy in thinking.

The political spectrum is much wider than some people seem to think. Because of that, they are not on their guard against elements of neofascism, plutocracy, and autocracy.
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#84

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
For the upteenth time:
What Sanders is advocating, and what most european countries (including the UK and Scandinavia) are practicing is "social market economy"

Quote:The social market economic model, sometimes called Rhine capitalism, is based upon the idea of realizing the benefits of a free-market economy, especially economic performance and high supply of goods while avoiding disadvantages such as market failure, destructive competition, concentration of economic power and the socially harmful effects of market processes. The aim of the social market economy is to realize greatest prosperity combined with best possible social security. One difference from the free market economy is that the state is not passive, but instead takes active regulatory measures. The social policy objectives include employment, housing and education policies, as well as a socio-politically motivated balancing of the distribution of income growth. Characteristics of social market economies are a strong competition policy and a contractionary monetary policy. The philosophical background is neoliberalism or ordoliberalism.
The fact that the state is not passive but actively takes regulatory measures does not mean its socialism (only to those who live in a black-and-white world where unregulated capitalism equals white and everything else equals black/socialism, or to those who dishonestly argue like this).

Sanders describes himself as a democratic socialist. Yet, the definition of DS includes socially owned economy, which (afaik) Sandes does not promote.
Quote:The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism. Although aspects were inspired by democratic socialism, the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning.

My (personal) yardstick for determining if something/one is socialism/ist is the social ownership and economic planning. Socialism includes those. Consequently anything that does not incluse those isnt socialism but a flavour of capitalism.

P.S.: ....and Atheism has fuck all to do with socialism and shit. I think our latest troll may be even aware of this.
R.I.P. Hannes
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#85

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-12-2021, 04:50 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Also there are some conservative atheists on this forum. Deadpan Coffee Drinker

And one who I'm pretty sure is actually religious or something (though only showing it occasionally and passively-aggressively. Which is almost the entirety of their posting style anyway. I guess I dislike dishonesty even more than plain ole jerk-ness.)
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#86

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 07:20 PM)seaside Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:19 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:12 PM)seaside Wrote: Yeah, charity does that to people in same creed. Again its socialist manipulation play book is all :Tongue
You conflate religious text with your ideology.

What charity?  What creed?  What socialist manipulation?

My question is. if you dont give a crap about religion? Then why try to manipulate Christians to think like you do in context to their religious books? Is Manipulation culture that important?

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door to tell you the good news that there's no god?.... Not ever! Manipulation is the purview of the religious and they're masters of it. Manipulation culture is everywhere with the religious. I don't care what anyone believes if you want to believe there's a porcupine living in your rectum singing the theme tune to the A team good for you I don't care but when you start insisting I need to believe it or you try to get laws passed that force said porcupine to encroach in to my life and affect me then we're going to have a problem. Manipulation is coming almost exclusively from the religious not the other way round.
Justaminute   The whole point of having cake is to eat it! 
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#87

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 07:20 PM)seaside Wrote: My question is. if you dont give a crap about religion?

Most of us don't give a crap about religion right up to the point where the religious start trying to legislate their make believe.

Quote:Then why try to manipulate Christians to think like you do in context to their religious books?

Sorry, whose doctrine is it to convert the heathens? Look to the beam in thine own eye.

Quote:Is Manipulation culture that important?

You'd have to ask the Kansas State Schoolboard.
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#88

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist.

I know four or five. That was easy.

[/end thread]
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#89

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist. It however made somewhat sense in 1800s when it was added to criticize the flaws religious stuff could be in society. (But i love supression fetish to some level so i am weird that way?). But i do wonder if Atheism as a ideology, if that developed into socialism, interms of manipulative behavior etc?

   Nope. You're pretty much just incorrect in most of what you're posting.

Try to broaden your learining horizons farther than Youtube-University, maybe?

Cheers.

  :coffee:

Not at work.
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#90

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 05:44 PM)seaside Wrote: Name me last time you heard of a conservative Atheist. It however made somewhat sense in 1800s when it was added to criticize the flaws religious stuff could be in society. (But i love supression fetish to some level so i am weird that way?). But i do wonder if Atheism as a ideology, if that developed into socialism, interms of manipulative behavior etc?

Read Acts 4.  God is a communist.  Gospels.  Sell all you have and give to the poor.  Socialism is old as the New Testament.  And modern socialism drew it's inspiration there.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!


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#91

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-11-2021, 11:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 09:49 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 09:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: You still have not defined socialism.
You have no evidence or data to show us atheism and socialism are even minimally related.
You have no evidence that anyone is "manipulated" into thinking anything.
I fully understand Christianity. I was born into it, and have studied religions far more than most.

All, as in EVERY single one, of your assertions have no evidence.
They are all nothing but "musings" totally based on ignorant and false assumptions.

I get your point, but if you were "born into it" you probably cant fully understand it.

Does 1 Corinthians 11:14 make any sense to you without looking it up.  And looking it up, figure out any sense to it?

Big Grin

Just making a very small point...  No one can make full sense out of any theistic book...

May your day be blest...

I said I understand it, (in the sense *they* mean it). I didn't say *it made sense*.
They readily admit it.
Aquinas said anyone who says they understand the Trinity is lying.  Tongue

"in the sense *they* mean it". OK.
I am tying notes to balloons and tumble-weeds and sending them out to the world. Where they are found, I do not know...
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#92

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-13-2021, 12:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:20 PM)seaside Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:19 PM)Cavebear Wrote: What charity?  What creed?  What socialist manipulation?

My question is. if you dont give a crap about religion? Then why try to manipulate Christians to think like you do in context to their religious books? Is Manipulation culture that important?

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door to tell you the good news that there's no god?.... Not ever! Manipulation is the purview of the religious and they're masters of it. Manipulation culture is everywhere with the religious. I don't care what anyone believes if you want to believe there's a porcupine living in your rectum singing the theme tune to the A team good for you I don't care but when you start insisting I need to believe it or you try to get laws passed that force said porcupine to encroach in to my life and affect me then we're going to have a problem. Manipulation is coming almost exclusively from the religious not the other way round.

So who runs the media though? Religious people lol.
No its socialists and left wingers. Point is America has actual problems, but its easier to profit of manipulation and looting culture like racism (ignoring actual racism like Indian lands getting seized by corporations... but if they dont have the right skin colour then whatever) Either way, two party system is very good at actually make idiots fight extreme idiots. Atheists vs Religious. Left vs Right. Which is good if you love more poverty by the poor in general.

Perfect money machine. And all you have to do... is instead of making "Labour party (social democracy)" or more parties that represent your views? Its better to bully the opponent. Call them inbred... and just collect the cash. Mainly socialist money since they are honestly better at organizing than right wingers are. But manipulation culture is very beneficial.

And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. Originally to stop the disbelief in mainstream narrative, in context to John F Kennedy assassination
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#93

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 05:40 PM)seaside Wrote: So who runs the media though? Religious people lol.
No its socialists and left wingers. Point is America has actual problems, but its easier to profit of manipulation and looting culture like racism (ignoring actual racism like Indian lands getting seized by corporations... but if they dont have the right skin colour then whatever) Either way, two party system is very good at actually make idiots fight extreme idiots. Atheists vs Religious. Left vs Right. Which is good if you love more poverty by the poor in general.

Perfect money machine. And all you have to do... is instead of making "Labour party (social democracy)" or more parties that represent your views? Its better to bully the opponent. Call them inbred... and just collect the cash. Mainly socialist money since they are honestly better at organizing than right wingers are. But manipulation culture is very beneficial.

And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. Originally to stop the disbelief in mainstream narrative, in context to John F Kennedy assassination

You are nuts.
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#94

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 05:40 PM)seaside Wrote: And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. 

This took me one second to fact-check.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/conspiracy

Quote:Conspiracy theory "explanation of an event or situation involving unwarranted belief that it is caused by a conspiracy among powerful forces" emerged in mid-20c. (by 1937) and figures in the writings of, or about, Charles Beard, Hofstadter, Veblen, etc., but the degree of paranoia and unreasonableness implied in each use is not always easy to discern. The phrase was used from 19c. in a non-pejorative sense "the theory that a (certain) conspiracy exists," especially in court cases. Its use in general reference to theories of hidden cabals pulling wires behind the scenes of national or global events is by 1871.

Guess you're the kind of person who doesn't like fact-checkers though.
Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.  Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#95

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 06:47 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(07-19-2021, 05:40 PM)seaside Wrote: And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. 

This took me one second to fact-check.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/conspiracy

Quote:Conspiracy theory "explanation of an event or situation involving unwarranted belief that it is caused by a conspiracy among powerful forces" emerged in mid-20c. (by 1937) and figures in the writings of, or about, Charles Beard, Hofstadter, Veblen, etc., but the degree of paranoia and unreasonableness implied in each use is not always easy to discern. The phrase was used from 19c. in a non-pejorative sense "the theory that a (certain) conspiracy exists," especially in court cases. Its use in general reference to theories of hidden cabals pulling wires behind the scenes of national or global events is by 1871.

Guess you're the kind of person who doesn't like fact-checkers though.

What else but lies and ignorant drivel can be expected from dim witted troll?
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#96

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 05:40 PM)seaside Wrote:
(07-13-2021, 12:10 AM)adey67 Wrote:
(07-11-2021, 07:20 PM)seaside Wrote: My question is. if you dont give a crap about religion? Then why try to manipulate Christians to think like you do in context to their religious books? Is Manipulation culture that important?

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door to tell you the good news that there's no god?.... Not ever! Manipulation is the purview of the religious and they're masters of it. Manipulation culture is everywhere with the religious. I don't care what anyone believes if you want to believe there's a porcupine living in your rectum singing the theme tune to the A team good for you I don't care but when you start insisting I need to believe it or you try to get laws passed that force said porcupine to encroach in to my life and affect me then we're going to have a problem. Manipulation is coming almost exclusively from the religious not the other way round.

So who runs the media though? Religious people lol.
No its socialists and left wingers. Point is America has actual problems, but its easier to profit of manipulation and looting culture like racism (ignoring actual racism like Indian lands getting seized by corporations... but if they dont have the right skin colour then whatever) Either way, two party system is very good at actually make idiots fight extreme idiots. Atheists vs Religious. Left vs Right. Which is good if you love more poverty by the poor in general.

Perfect money machine. And all you have to do... is instead of making "Labour party (social democracy)" or more parties that represent your views? Its better to bully the opponent. Call them inbred... and just collect the cash. Mainly socialist money since they are honestly better at organizing than right wingers are. But manipulation culture is very beneficial.

And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. Originally to stop the disbelief in mainstream narrative, in context to John F Kennedy assassination
An interesting theatre you bring to this discussion? Where would you say the centre stood in this?
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#97

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
Seaside: Looking for a "Gotcha, atheist scum!" opportunity, and scoring own goals instead, since July 6, 2021.
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#98

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 06:47 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(07-19-2021, 05:40 PM)seaside Wrote: And fyi. Conspiracy theory was a made up term by CIA in 1967. 

This took me one second to fact-check.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/conspiracy

Quote:Conspiracy theory "explanation of an event or situation involving unwarranted belief that it is caused by a conspiracy among powerful forces" emerged in mid-20c. (by 1937) and figures in the writings of, or about, Charles Beard, Hofstadter, Veblen, etc., but the degree of paranoia and unreasonableness implied in each use is not always easy to discern. The phrase was used from 19c. in a non-pejorative sense "the theory that a (certain) conspiracy exists," especially in court cases. Its use in general reference to theories of hidden cabals pulling wires behind the scenes of national or global events is by 1871.

Guess you're the kind of person who doesn't like fact-checkers though.

Yeah and it wasnt used much til this happend

"n his 2013 book Conspiracy Theory in America, political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith suggested that the term entered everyday language in the United States after 1964, the year in which the Warren Commission published its findings on the Kennedy assassination, with The New York Times running five stories that year using the term.[43] However, deHaven-Smith's suggestion has been criticized by Michael Butter, a Professor of American Literary and Cultural History at the University of Tübingen, on the grounds that a CIA document which deHaven-Smith referenced, Concerning Criticism of the Warren Report, which was publicly released in 1976 after a Freedom of Information Act request, does not contain the phrase "conspiracy theory" in the singular, and only mentions "conspiracy theories" once, in the sentence "Conspiracy theories have frequently thrown suspicion on our organisation [sic], for example, by falsely alleging that Lee Harvey Oswald worked for us."[44]
"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy..._and_usage

See i can use internet too :Smile
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#99

Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
At this point, debilitating paranoia seems to be central to right-wing thinking so-called. It's a public mental-health crisis.
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Isnt Atheism borderline socialism?
(07-19-2021, 07:33 PM)seaside Wrote: See i can use internet too :Smile

So you don't use it beforehand to make sure you've got something right, you only use it afterwards to cover your backpedaling ... got it.

You'd probably earn more respect if you just admitted your error, but something tells me that isn't in your mental makeup.
Freedom isn't free.
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