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#26

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Superstitions can smudge the border with OCD, too. There are repetitious recipes and it's comforting and gives a sense of being in control to repeat these recipes. 

I do see a correlation with superstitions in that way.

Not to be confused with causation.
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#27

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(06-13-2021, 06:01 PM)TristanJ Wrote: Yes, i think that was also apart of it a false sense of control for me though because of the abuse and other things in my life i also think it was comfort, but i always had doubts even when i wanted to ignore the doubts. and because i was naturally curious it's likely what saved me from being ignorant later in life and sadly not everyone grows up keeping curiosity or doubt. i think it can be remade in a way but i feel it'd be harder.
I found a lot of freedom in accepting the idea that some things were just outside of my control and my only responsibility was to deal with whatever happened.  That's very much a "your mileage may vary" thing, especially if you were raised in a guilt-heavy tradition like Catholicism, where everything is your fault, even the stuff that isn't.  Letting go isn't easy when you've had it pounded into you psychologically that you're responsible for every little thing.

To put it bluntly, no, I fucking well am not, and being able to finally say that to the universe was really liberating.
"Aliens?  Us?  Is this one of your Earth jokes?"  -- Kro-Bar, The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra
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#28

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(06-14-2021, 12:39 AM)trdsf Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 06:01 PM)TristanJ Wrote: Yes, i think that was also apart of it a false sense of control for me though because of the abuse and other things in my life i also think it was comfort, but i always had doubts even when i wanted to ignore the doubts. and because i was naturally curious it's likely what saved me from being ignorant later in life and sadly not everyone grows up keeping curiosity or doubt. i think it can be remade in a way but i feel it'd be harder.
I found a lot of freedom in accepting the idea that some things were just outside of my control and my only responsibility was to deal with whatever happened.  That's very much a "your mileage may vary" thing, especially if you were raised in a guilt-heavy tradition like Catholicism, where everything is your fault, even the stuff that isn't.  Letting go isn't easy when you've had it pounded into you psychologically that you're responsible for every little thing.

To put it bluntly, no, I fucking well am not, and being able to finally say that to the universe was really liberating.

Religion and I were different, I was sorta lucky my parents never forced religion on me, or at least my father was very anti-forcing things onto his kids and i thank him for that. but i did have a point when I wound up in the pentecostal crap as a teen for my parents they left and didn't believe it anyway. But for me, i think it left a large scar and i had to realize not that long ago that just because it didn't affect my parents and they decided to leave doesn't mean it didn't affect me (i often stayed because of my cushions) i can't say i experienced exactly the same as you may have or anything extreme. But i remember this old man talking in tongues and falling down to the floor holding his chest and that's probably something that never quite left me as i watched the entire church do absolutely nothing for this guy who was like 90 and probably had some kinda being signs of heart problems. but it was assumed to just be god. but anyways I'm rambling. I think for me it was most escaping supernatural beliefs, although there is little parts of Christianity and other versions of it that's left a negative impact.
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#29

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(06-13-2021, 05:27 PM)trdsf Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 03:17 PM)TristanJ Wrote: I was a very superstitious person around five or six years ago.  I have the option of going over that but it would take too long for me to find the right words to explain.
Superstitions are fiendish to get rid of.  Probably because they give us a false sense of control over a situation, and that's a feeling most people like, or at least find comforting.  I think I've purged most of them, but it's still instinctive to say "Gesundheit" (never "bless you", at least there's that) after someone sneezes or to bid someone 'good luck' when that wish makes no difference whatsoever.

I think that demonstrates the power of indoctrination.  We get a lot of our superstitions in our formative years when we really are not very critical and open to suggestion.  My mother would always warn us about it being bad luck to open an umbrella in the house or put new shoes on the table (wtf???), but even now there is that twinge of hesitation before i will do either of those things.  I think that is what also stands in the way of people letting go of their religious beliefs.  The hesitation comes from fear of being wrong and suffering the consequences.  The brain decides that it is better to play it safe.
No gods necessary
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#30

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(06-14-2021, 12:39 AM)trdsf Wrote: [...] I found a lot of freedom in accepting the idea that some things were just outside of my control and my only responsibility was to deal with whatever happened.

[...]

To put it bluntly, no, I fucking well am not, and being able to finally say that to the universe was really liberating.

Ironically, the very Christian Serenity Prayer was actually a way out, for me:

God grant me the strength to change the things I can
Grant me the serenity to accept what I can't change
and grant me the wisdom to know the difference.


Setting aside, of course, the god-part, understanding the limits to the scope of my control has been very helpful to me. I cannot control anything in the Universe, really, but I can control how I respond to it.

Letting go of the bullshit I can't steer helps me focus on what I can control -- namely myself and in some cases my immediate environs.

Funny that such a Christian prayer should feed such a humanist outlook.
On hiatus.
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#31

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(06-14-2021, 01:09 AM)brunumb Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 05:27 PM)trdsf Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 03:17 PM)TristanJ Wrote: I was a very superstitious person around five or six years ago.  I have the option of going over that but it would take too long for me to find the right words to explain.
Superstitions are fiendish to get rid of.  Probably because they give us a false sense of control over a situation, and that's a feeling most people like, or at least find comforting.  I think I've purged most of them, but it's still instinctive to say "Gesundheit" (never "bless you", at least there's that) after someone sneezes or to bid someone 'good luck' when that wish makes no difference whatsoever.

I think that demonstrates the power of indoctrination.  We get a lot of our superstitions in our formative years when we really are not very critical and open to suggestion.  My mother would always warn us about it being bad luck to open an umbrella in the house or put new shoes on the table (wtf???), but even now there is that twinge of hesitation before i will do either of those things.  I think that is what also stands in the way of people letting go of their religious beliefs.  The hesitation comes from fear of being wrong and suffering the consequences.  The brain decides that it is better to play it safe.

Probably our susceptibility to superstitions is rooted way back in when parents told their kids to stay away from the red berries because they would make them sick. At one point this was critical information, and we learned to soak such things up without question.
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#32

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(06-14-2021, 02:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Ironically, the very Christian Serenity Prayer was actually a way out, for me:

God grant me the strength to change the things I can
Grant me the serenity to accept what I can't change
and grant me the wisdom to know the difference.


Setting aside, of course, the god-part, understanding the limits to the scope of my control has been very helpful to me. I cannot control anything in the Universe, really, but I can control how I respond to it.

Letting go of the bullshit I can't steer helps me focus on what I can control -- namely myself and in some cases my immediate environs.

Funny that such a Christian prayer should feed such a humanist outlook.

Funny, I always thought this was some sort of pseudo-Buddhist, pseudo-zen platitude  Dunno

And @Dom was right about OCD and superstitions; a handful of my compulsions were religious in nature, and to this day I still say a "prayer" when stressed out (for my grandfather or, since he passed away, my parents, to get medically better; I know it's just a meaningless ritual and it doesn't bother me one bit).

I'm sure I've said this numerous times but a sign-of-the-cross-morphed-into-a-somewhat-mutated compulsion (which was HELL to get rid of!) was how I admitted to myself I was actually an atheist since it didn't mean anything anymore. I remember the very moment it happened - I went to make the gesture and finally admitted to myself it had absolutely no meaning and I was, for all intents and purposes, an atheist. Getting rid of the compulsion took nearly as long as getting rid of religion (and other things have taken its place, sadly, though not too bad or life-interfering).

Also, OCD is a pain in the something or other Dodgy
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#33

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(06-14-2021, 02:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(06-14-2021, 12:39 AM)trdsf Wrote: [...] I found a lot of freedom in accepting the idea that some things were just outside of my control and my only responsibility was to deal with whatever happened.

[...]

To put it bluntly, no, I fucking well am not, and being able to finally say that to the universe was really liberating.

Ironically, the very Christian Serenity Prayer was actually a way out, for me:

God grant me the strength to change the things I can
Grant me the serenity to accept what I can't change
and grant me the wisdom to know the difference.


Setting aside, of course, the god-part, understanding the limits to the scope of my control has been very helpful to me. I cannot control anything in the Universe, really, but I can control how I respond to it.

Letting go of the bullshit I can't steer helps me focus on what I can control -- namely myself and in some cases my immediate environs.

Funny that such a Christian prayer should feed such a humanist outlook.

It's just another version of this:


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#34

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(06-14-2021, 10:33 PM)Vera Wrote: Funny, I always thought this was some sort of pseudo-Buddhist, pseudo-zen platitude  Dunno

It does have a touch of Zen to it, which may be why it still resonates with me after I've abandoned most other things I learned from Protestant preachers. It ties in several ideas:

1) understanding the scope of one's control.
2) understanding that inside one's scope of control, taking action to change matters is a very powerful thing
3) understanding that investing effort and emotion into an uncontrollable circumstance is a sure road to angst or worse.

When I keep it in mind, it does aid me staying emotionally-balanced and at peace inside. It doesn't help me gain in happiness, but it helps me avoid unhappiness.

No doubt there's some crossover with Eastern religions somewhere down the line, though I'm not educated enough in those to lay out where. I'm sure @Dānu could point out if and where such crossover might occur if she's so inclined.
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