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Pigs
#51

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 03:00 PM)Aliza Wrote: No, I believe they're forbidden from touching certain things until they're clean again. 

It's like when you go to a buffet and you sneeze in your hand. You're forbidden from touching the salad bar until you've washed your hands. It's nothing personal against you and it's not an attack on your body functions... it's just that I don't want to eat off those hands.

And do they need a ritual to get clean again?

Because being considered "unclean" (and often segregated) for up to a week every month and having to observe some basic hygiene rules are vastly different.

And yes, a lot of the "rules" concerning menstruation *are* an attack on women's bodily functions and an attack on women and their dignity.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#52

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 03:03 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 03:00 PM)Aliza Wrote: No, I believe they're forbidden from touching certain things until they're clean again. 

It's like when you go to a buffet and you sneeze in your hand. You're forbidden from touching the salad bar until you've washed your hands. It's nothing personal against you and it's not an attack on your body functions... it's just that I don't want to eat off those hands.

And do they need a ritual to get clean again?

Because being considered "unclean" (and often segregated) for up to a week every month and having to observe some basic hygiene rules are vastly different.

And yes, a lot of the "rules" concerning menstruation *are* an attack on women's bodily functions and an attack on women and their dignity.

I don't know all of the details of the ritual for men's cleaning stuff, but many Jewish men today observe the same ritual as women. It's my experience that women use the bath in a very regulated environment once a month, and men use a bath (sometimes daily), but they're less picky about the nuances of the bath's regulations. 

I've never had my feelings hurt by anyone else when or because I menstruate. It's long-standing Jewish tradition not to announce or inquire about someone's mensuration. Within Jewish circles, it's regarded as a very private thing and others should be unaware of and unconcerned that it's happening.
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#53

Pigs
When I say something isn't kosher I mean it's full of falsehoods.
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#54

Pigs
When my mom grew up, menstruation was unmentionable, period.

Girls would suddenly start bleeding for no obvious reason and think they were dying. Their mothers would provide them with rags and tell them that's just how it is for women.

My mom was traumatized by this. When I was just 4 years old and we were on a beach, I was bugging mom about going into the water with us. Not a good idea when wearing a pad. She decided to go for a walk with me and explained the whole thing. I was lucky, most of the other girls back then didn't find out until the nuns handed them a pamphlet. I don't remember how the pamphlet explained it.

Menstruation, menopause and intercourse were all forbidden topics. You stumbled into them blindly.
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#55

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 01:13 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 03:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 02:48 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have often wondered by a book that is absolutely not kosher can tell people what IS kosher.

What is not kosher about the book?

Maybe some Old Testament books covers are made from pig skin?  I know that the Torah is a scroll and not in a bound book form though.   

Perhaps this is why there are so few Jewish American football* players?    Big Grin




* An American football is made from pigskin.

I can't speak for Christian versions of the Jewish texts, but Torah scrolls are made with lamb skin.

Also, Jews can make use of pig products for reasons other than eating. Jews can play football, use tallow soap in the shower, or wear pig-skin leather; the prohibition is against eating, not using or owning.
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#56

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 03:35 PM)Aliza Wrote: I've never had my feelings hurt by anyone else when or because I menstruate.

That's all nice and dandy, but we were talking about menstruation and all the taboo (and sometimes outright abuse) that surround it, have surrounded it for a long time and continue to surround it to this day (to the extent that women have died in those huts they sequester them in Nepal (I think)) in many parts of the world.

Comparing this to men having to wash their hands after they ejaculate (much like after they go to the bathroom I assume) was either a flippant remark (which is how I took it and responded in kind) or... well, I don't really want to hazard a description but to compare something that has been and continues to be a cause for abuse and death to men having to wash after their ejaculate, and then saying that *you*, personally, have never had a problem with is, is not just a tad insensitive and yes, privileged.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#57

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 04:10 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 03:35 PM)Aliza Wrote: I've never had my feelings hurt by anyone else when or because I menstruate.

That's all nice and dandy, but we were talking about menstruation and all the taboo (and sometimes outright abuse) that surround it, have surrounded it for a long time and continue to surround it to this day (to the extent that women have died in those huts they sequester them in Nepal (I think)) in many parts of the world.

Comparing this to men having to wash their hands after they ejaculate (much like after they go to the bathroom I assume) was either a flippant remark (which is how I took it and responded in kind) or... well, I don't really want to hazard a description but to compare something that has been and continues to be a cause for abuse and death to men having to wash after their ejaculate, and then saying that *you*, personally, have never had a problem with is, is not just a tad insensitive and yes, privileged.

I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.
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#58

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 03:54 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 01:13 AM)Dancefortwo Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 03:05 PM)Aliza Wrote: What is not kosher about the book?

Maybe some Old Testament books covers are made from pig skin?  I know that the Torah is a scroll and not in a bound book form though.   

Perhaps this is why there are so few Jewish American football* players?    Big Grin




* An American football is made from pigskin.

I can't speak for Christian versions of the Jewish texts, but Torah scrolls are made with lamb skin.

Also, Jews can make use of pig products for reasons other than eating. Jews can play football, use tallow soap in the shower, or wear pig-skin leather; the prohibition is against eating, not using or owning.

Dunno if this particular aspect was true of all seventh day adventists (SDAs follow the dietary restrictions with many embracing vegetarianism) or just mom, but i was told growing up that even touching the products of unclean animals, not just food, but any product, was sinful.
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#59

Pigs
Quote:Their mothers would provide them with rags and tell them that's just how it is for women.


Yep.... and it's all Eve's fault for listening to a talking snake and eating an apple!


Man.  People are stupid.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#60

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 04:59 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Their mothers would provide them with rags and tell them that's just how it is for women.


Yep.... and it's all Eve's fault for listening to a talking snake and eating an apple!


Man.  People are stupid.

Yeah, mom didn't buy into that. But Gramma probably did, I didn't know her well enough to know, but she did go to church because everyone did, on Sundays. But then, back in those days you had to hide your atheism, everyone was in the closet about everything that wasn't the norm.
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#61

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 04:30 PM)Aliza Wrote: I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.

And nobody was talking about Judaism specifically before you brought it up with a, to my mind, joking remark about ejaculation when we were discussing world-wide (and history-wide) menstruation taboos (and abuse and yeah, I quoted a specific case). I took it as a joke and replied in kind because the taboos and limitations surrounding menstruation and those surrounding ejaculation are not comparable at all and I think this is patently obvious. If you were seriously trying to prove that Judaism is more fair, because ejaculation, too, is impure, that was a bad comparison.

I don't claim to know in much detail how Judaism treats menstruation (yeah, I've read that women *are* considered impure, and they have to refrain from being with their husbands. Not sure if this applies only to the most conservative of Jews, nor do I know whether Jewish women are forbidden other things when menstruating, like touching certain things or taking part in certain rituals, or entering temple (I've read that yes, they cannot enter temple when menstruating (but you might correct me) which obviously is something that can never apply to men who ejaculate for a handful of seconds - in the privacy of their homes or wherever - as opposed to several-day-long period of menstruation).



(And while on the subject of religious misogyny, yes, I have read about the "blessing" where god is being thanked for "not having made me a woman", too. And yes, I'm sure the religious have come up with an excuse for this one too).
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#62

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 06:07 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 04:30 PM)Aliza Wrote: I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.

And nobody was talking about Judaism specifically before you brought it up with a, to my mind, joking remark about ejaculation when we were discussing world-wide (and history-wide) menstruation taboos (and abuse and yeah, I quoted a specific case). I took it as a joke and replied in kind because the taboos and limitations surrounding menstruation and those surrounding ejaculation are not comparable at all and I think this is patently obvious. If you were seriously trying to prove that Judaism is more fair, because ejaculation, too, is impure, that was a bad comparison.

I don't claim to know in much detail how Judaism treats menstruation (yeah, I've read that women *are* considered impure, and they have to refrain from being with their husbands. Not sure if this applies only to the most conservative of Jews, nor do I know whether Jewish women are forbidden other things when menstruating, like touching certain things or taking part in certain rituals, or entering temple (I've read that yes, they cannot enter temple when menstruating (but you might correct me) which obviously is something that can never apply to men who ejaculate for a handful of seconds - in the privacy of their homes or wherever - as opposed to several-day-long period of menstruation).



(And while on the subject of religious misogyny, yes, I have read about the "blessing" where god is being thanked for "not having made me a woman", too. And yes, I'm sure the religious have come up with an excuse for this one too).

*Peaks in and looks around while eating pork chops for lunch*
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#63

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 06:07 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 04:30 PM)Aliza Wrote: I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.

And nobody was talking about Judaism specifically before you brought it up with a, to my mind, joking remark about ejaculation when we were discussing world-wide (and history-wide) menstruation taboos (and abuse and yeah, I quoted a specific case). I took it as a joke and replied in kind because the taboos and limitations surrounding menstruation and those surrounding ejaculation are not comparable at all and I think this is patently obvious. If you were seriously trying to prove that Judaism is more fair, because ejaculation, too, is impure, that was a bad comparison.

I don't claim to know in much detail how Judaism treats menstruation (yeah, I've read that women *are* considered impure, and they have to refrain from being with their husbands. Not sure if this applies only to the most conservative of Jews, nor do I know whether Jewish women are forbidden other things when menstruating, like touching certain things or taking part in certain rituals, or entering temple (I've read that yes, they cannot enter temple when menstruating (but you might correct me) which obviously is something that can never apply to men who ejaculate for a handful of seconds - in the privacy of their homes or wherever - as opposed to several-day-long period of menstruation).



(And while on the subject of religious misogyny, yes, I have read about the "blessing" where god is being thanked for "not having made me a woman", too. And yes, I'm sure the religious have come up with an excuse for this one too).

Muslims, or maybe certain groups of Muslims, need to wash their wiener after intercourse, even when they want to go for a second round, they have to do it before they can go again. Don't ask how I know.  Tongue
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#64

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 06:58 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 06:07 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 04:30 PM)Aliza Wrote: I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.

And nobody was talking about Judaism specifically before you brought it up with a, to my mind, joking remark about ejaculation when we were discussing world-wide (and history-wide) menstruation taboos (and abuse and yeah, I quoted a specific case). I took it as a joke and replied in kind because the taboos and limitations surrounding menstruation and those surrounding ejaculation are not comparable at all and I think this is patently obvious. If you were seriously trying to prove that Judaism is more fair, because ejaculation, too, is impure, that was a bad comparison.

I don't claim to know in much detail how Judaism treats menstruation (yeah, I've read that women *are* considered impure, and they have to refrain from being with their husbands. Not sure if this applies only to the most conservative of Jews, nor do I know whether Jewish women are forbidden other things when menstruating, like touching certain things or taking part in certain rituals, or entering temple (I've read that yes, they cannot enter temple when menstruating (but you might correct me) which obviously is something that can never apply to men who ejaculate for a handful of seconds - in the privacy of their homes or wherever - as opposed to several-day-long period of menstruation).



(And while on the subject of religious misogyny, yes, I have read about the "blessing" where god is being thanked for "not having made me a woman", too. And yes, I'm sure the religious have come up with an excuse for this one too).

Muslims, or maybe certain groups of Muslims, need to wash their wiener after intercourse, even when they want to go for a second round, they have to do it before they can go again. Don't ask how I know.  Tongue

They have sex with wieners?

I'll never eat a hotdog again ...
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#65

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 06:07 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-31-2021, 04:30 PM)Aliza Wrote: I'm not really following. Mensuration issues in Nepal have nothing to do with Judaism. I can talk about why I believe that the Torah didn't impact Jewish culture in the way people think it did (which is relevant because people find fault with Christianity, and point to the Jewish portions of the book), but I can't speak for Nepalese culture.

To be clear, men and woman's cleaning rituals are similar. They do not simply wash their hands, they take a bath. Men and women take a bath after bodily functions and wash their hands before eating. This really shouldn't be that controversial.

And nobody was talking about Judaism specifically before you brought it up with a, to my mind, joking remark about ejaculation when we were discussing world-wide (and history-wide) menstruation taboos (and abuse and yeah, I quoted a specific case). I took it as a joke and replied in kind because the taboos and limitations surrounding menstruation and those surrounding ejaculation are not comparable at all and I think this is patently obvious. If you were seriously trying to prove that Judaism is more fair, because ejaculation, too, is impure, that was a bad comparison.

I don't claim to know in much detail how Judaism treats menstruation (yeah, I've read that women *are* considered impure, and they have to refrain from being with their husbands. Not sure if this applies only to the most conservative of Jews, nor do I know whether Jewish women are forbidden other things when menstruating, like touching certain things or taking part in certain rituals, or entering temple (I've read that yes, they cannot enter temple when menstruating (but you might correct me) which obviously is something that can never apply to men who ejaculate for a handful of seconds - in the privacy of their homes or wherever - as opposed to several-day-long period of menstruation).



(And while on the subject of religious misogyny, yes, I have read about the "blessing" where god is being thanked for "not having made me a woman", too. And yes, I'm sure the religious have come up with an excuse for this one too).

I shouldn't speak for Aliza but I'm pretty sure this is conservative orthodox Jewish customs. 

In India I read that woman cannot go Hindu temples during menustration and have to stay in a crappy old hut.  I think they have a purification ritual too. 

American Indigenous tribes have several customs regarding mensturation. In one tribe a woman went to the "wise woman's hut" to reflect on herself and the universe.....or something like that...but I don't think she's considered impure..  My sister-in-law is a full blooded indigenous tribal woman in Canada.  She said her tribe regards a mensutating woman a goddess and very powerful.  

Sometimes I wonder if the separation of the American continent from the influences of Eastern and Middle Eastern religions gave them a whole different take on life.

This is completely off topic but American Indian tribes had no sense of ownership of the land.  The land was here for all peoples.  Pre Mayflower days the Indians never bought or sold land.  That concept didn't exist.    The land was like the air, it simply existed for every person.  So when white Europeans first came here it was easy to get the land from the Indians.....at first.  The Indians cought on quick though.  I don't know why I got sidetracked by that, but anyway....  

I think the Muslims have a purfication process for mensturating women too.   Don't know about the Ancient Greeks and Romans.  


(I may have a few spelling mistakes.   I'm typing outside in the sun and can't see what I'm doing because of all the glaire.)
                                                         T4618
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#66

Pigs
Quote:They have sex with wieners?


I don't think they know what's under the burqas.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#67

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 07:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:They have sex with wieners?


I don't think they know what's under the burqas.

Yeah ... the least they could do is graduate up to a submarine sandwich!
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#68

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 06:58 PM)Dom Wrote: Muslims, or maybe certain groups of Muslims, need to wash their wiener after intercourse, even when they want to go for a second round, they have to do it before they can go again. Don't ask how I know.  Tongue

And Brazilians use a weird little extension their showers usually have to give themselves an enema before a certain type of sexual act.

Don't ask how *I* know  Whistling

(Well, that boinker of high-school kids in Rio informed me, actually. Living next door to him kinda made me feel like I'd read Oolon Colluphid's Everything You Never Wanted to Know About Sex But Have Been Forced to Find Out Dodgy )

(So this comes out of the shower head itself. I thought it was just a tiny manual showerlet... boy was I wrong (well, I wasn't really)

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#69

Pigs
(05-31-2021, 10:04 PM)Vera Wrote: (So this comes out of the shower head itself. I thought it was just a tiny manual showerlet... boy was I wrong (well, I wasn't really)

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Whatever plumbing arrangements you crave, we don't judge.
Travis Perkins can help you.

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#70

Pigs
(05-30-2021, 06:59 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 06:31 PM)Minimalist Wrote: I know what this shit is all about.


Quote:Frank Perdue approached the Pope and made the following offer. If the Catholic Church would officially change the last line of the Lord's prayer from "give us this day our daily bread" to "give us this day our daily chicken", then Perdue Chicken would donate 10 million dollars to Catholic charities. The Pope declined.

Two weeks later, Perdue approached the Pope again. This time, he raised the offer to 50 million dollars. Again, the Pope declined.

A month later he offers 100 million, and this time, the Pope accepts.

At a meeting of the Cardinals, the Pope announces his decision in the good news/bad news format. "The good news is... that we have 100 million dollars to settle lawsuits. The bad news is that we lost the Wonder Bread account."

With a little work you could make that into a joke.

BTDT, told it for years.
Freedom isn't free.
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#71

Pigs
All I gotta say is that I'm very, very happy Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. Worry not, I'll take up the slack.
Freedom isn't free.
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#72

Pigs
(06-01-2021, 02:55 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All I gotta say is that I'm very, very happy Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. Worry not, I'll take up the slack.

Best invention evah!

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#73

Pigs
(06-01-2021, 02:55 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All I gotta say is that I'm very, very happy Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. Worry not, I'll take up the slack.

Yeah, my usual dinner meats are pork or chicken. Not that I eat much; one thigh or 3 ounces of smoked pork with 6 ounces of veggies and a light sauce, Well, someone has to eat the darn things, they are everywhere.

But I'm doing my best to reduce the chicken and pig over-population one dinner at a time. Wink
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#74

Pigs
(06-01-2021, 02:55 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All I gotta say is that I'm very, very happy Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. Worry not, I'll take up the slack.

.....and shrimp and lobster and other stuff.   I mean, LOBSTER !!!  how can one go through life and not eat lobster or crab.  
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#75

Pigs
Bacon pie...  oink fucking oink!

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