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Pigs
#1

Pigs
No, not the cops.  A study by Israeli archaeologists dealing with the alleged taboo in eating pork.


https://www.academia.edu/9537023/Pig_Hus...view-paper


Now Academia.edu required a free registration when I joined years ago.  I have no idea what their story is now.

Here is the conclusion and if anyone wants the full .pdf  I'll be downloading it and will send to anyone who asks if you can't access the site yourselves.

Oink.

Quote:This brings us back to where we started – the biblical prohibition of pork consumption.The origin of taboos on pigs is debated. Reasons for its avoidance include the animal’s nature and behavior, ecological requirements, political-economic decisions and the pastoral-nomadic background of the societies in question. The biblical decree (Lev 11:7; Deut 14:8)comes from the world of Judah in late monarchic and early post-exilic times. Our work demonstrates that pork avoidance fits the reality in Judah in the Iron Age IIB–C (no data for the Persian period exist for now), but does not reflect daily life in the Northern Kingdom, at least in its lowland sites, in the Iron Age IIB. One may wonder why the biblical author promoted the obvious – pig avoidance – which was the reality in the highlands in the Iron Age I and in the Judahite lowlands and highlands throughout the Iron Age II. Pig taboo could have emerged in the highlands – in the north and in the south – as a result of the pastoral background of many of the Iron Age I settlers and the need to create a “we”-and-“they”-boundary with the Philistines in the southern lowlands.

Equally important, in the time of the biblical authors, when pig frequencies in Philistia already diminished considerably, promotion of pig avoidance could have been directed toward Israelites who moved to Judah after the collapse of the Northern Kingdom in 720. In other words, it was the growing pork consumption habits in Israel in the Iron Age IIB that provoked the Judahite authors (one may assume that pig exploitation continued to be prevalent in the territory of the ex-Northern Kingdom in the 7th cent.  BCE.


Judahite aspirations regarding these territories after the withdrawal of Assyria from the region could have been the reason for the continuing concern regarding pigs at that time. The biblical authors insisted that all Hebrews who dwelt in the territories of both, Israel and Judah, must acknowledge the rule of the Davidic Dynasty and worship in a sole Temple – in Jerusalem. The pig taboo could have been another Judahite cultural trait that was opposed to the situation in the north, and which the authors wished to impose on the entire Israelite population.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#2

Pigs
Leviticus 11
3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

What his about hooves means is inscrutable to us now.

Note the camel. Camels did not come to Palestine until the 9th century BCE. So this cannot have been commanded to Moses by God on the mount about 1400 BCE.

Pigs, like horses, sheep and goats did not come to the Americas until post Columbus. Despite mentions in the Book Of Mormon.
I am a sovereign citizen of the Multiverse, and I vote!


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#3

Pigs
(05-23-2021, 08:27 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: Leviticus 11
3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

What his about hooves means is inscrutable to us now.

Note the camel.  Camels did not come to Palestine until the 9th century BCE.  So this cannot have been commanded to Moses by God on the mount about 1400 BCE.

Pigs, like horses, sheep and goats did not come to the Americas until post Columbus.  Despite mentions in the Book Of Mormon.

Horses (like camels) originated in North America and crossed the Bering landmass before being hunted to extinction by modern humans in NA later.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#4

Pigs
Pork spoils quickly. The only broadly accepted rule-makers were the priests. So the priests banned pork. I think a rule against eating the 'tractors' made cows sacred in India.
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#5

Pigs
Yeah, I think the actual cause of food rules is experience with toxicity and availability.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#6

Pigs
(05-23-2021, 01:19 PM)Dom Wrote: Yeah, I think the actual cause of food rules is experience with toxicity and availability.
The holy rules addressed the problems. Fewer people challenged the gods than challenged the kings.
  [Image: attachment.php?aid=31] Dog  
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#7

Pigs
[Image: Screenshot-2021-05-24-528a43d0a9479-jpeg...pixels.png]
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#8

Pigs
(05-23-2021, 05:10 PM)SYZ Wrote: [Image: Screenshot-2021-05-24-528a43d0a9479-jpeg...pixels.png]

Trying to French kiss a pig, you can bet this post is going to haunt that kid as he grows up tbh I did something similar except I was older and ended up marrying the creature.  Chuckle
Justaminute   The whole point of having cake is to eat it! 
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#9

Pigs
I think pig noses are cute, but I certainly would not want to lick them. 

Tucker on Fox had a segment on kissing chickens recently, and brought in a woman who said she cuddled and kissed her chickens all the time and had done so for years. She brought a chicken with her, cuddling it.

I like chickens myself, and used to have a flock of very diverse show breeds. They were fun pets and gave eggs as a bonus, they were cute and pretty, and yes, I could be caught cuddling the ones with nice personalities.

Hygiene needs to be observed though.
[Image: color%5D%5Bcolor=#333333%5D%5Bsize=small%5D%5Bfont=T...ans-Serif%5D]
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#10

Pigs
(05-23-2021, 05:29 AM)Minimalist Wrote: No, not the cops.  A study by Israeli archaeologists dealing with the alleged taboo in eating pork.


Here is the conclusion...

Quote:This brings us back to where we started... The origin of taboos on pigs is debated. Reasons for its avoidance include...[long list of maybes]
Our work demonstrates that; 
...one may wonder why
...Pig taboo could have 
...pig avoidance could have been 
...In other words, ...one may assume 
...the withdrawal of Assyria from the region could have been
...The pig taboo could have been...
...This brings us back to where we started...


Gee. Great info. So 'conclusive'.
*rolls eyes*
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#11

Pigs
Beats the shit out of anything in your stupid-assed bible, sonny.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#12

Pigs
(05-23-2021, 05:23 PM)adey67 Wrote:
(05-23-2021, 05:10 PM)SYZ Wrote: [Image: Screenshot-2021-05-24-528a43d0a9479-jpeg...pixels.png]

Trying to French kiss a pig, you can bet this post is going to haunt that kid as he grows up tbh I did something similar except I was older and ended up marrying the creature.  Chuckle

Ouch!  



Chuckle
                                                         T4618
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#13

Pigs
Whaddaya know.  Looks as if they were always full of shit!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/middleeas...index.html

Quote:Ancient Judeans ate non-kosher seafood, fish bones show

Quote:Ancient Judeans ate non-kosher fish at a time when it was thought to have been prohibited in the Bible, according to a new study.
Researchers analyzed ancient fish bones from 30 archeological sites in areas that are now part of Israel and Egypt, dating from the Late Bronze Age (1550-1130 B.C.) to the end of the Byzantine period in 640 A.D.
The main principles of Jewish dietary law are laid down in the Chumash, or written Torah -- thought by many scholars to have been compiled during the Persian era (539-332 B.C.) and based on long-held traditions.


Quote:"What we found was that throughout the Iron Age ... there's no evidence that Judeans or Israelites were abstaining from scaleless fish," he said.

I guess they were telling this moses guy to go fuck himself?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#14

Pigs
Catfish and shark have fins.
Catfish and shark have scales.

[Image: scales1350489694591.png]
Placoid scales

Try harder Minimalist
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#15

Pigs
Take it up with the jews, dumbass.

Quote:All segments of Judaism consider catfish a non-kosher fish, as the Torah explicitly proscribes fish that do not have both fins and scales.

I, for one, don't give a flying fuck what you have to say.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#16

Pigs
(05-26-2021, 08:46 PM)Lion IRC Wrote: Catfish and shark have fins.
Catfish and shark have scales.

[Image: scales1350489694591.png]
Placoid scales

Try harder Minimalist

Catfish do not have scales.. While sharks do have scales, they are unlike the scales covering most types of fish, and this is probably why iron age men included them in their silly list of shit gawd prohibits for no good reason other than they are "unclean."
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#17

Pigs
(05-26-2021, 08:46 PM)Lion IRC Wrote: Catfish and shark have fins.
Catfish and shark have scales.

[Image: scales1350489694591.png]
Placoid scales

Try harder Minimalist

For Jewish dietary purposes, scales must be able to be flaked off with a knife. Catfish and shark are not kosher and have never been considered kosher.
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#18

Pigs
I have often wondered by a book that is absolutely not kosher can tell people what IS kosher.
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#19

Pigs
(05-30-2021, 02:48 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have often wondered by a book that is absolutely not kosher can tell people what IS kosher.

What is not kosher about the book?
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#20

Pigs
Why is Shrimp w/ Lobseter Sauce such a big item at Chinese Restaurants in Jewish neighborhoods?

Big Grin
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#21

Pigs
(05-26-2021, 08:17 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Whaddaya know.  Looks as if they were always full of shit!

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/middleeas...index.html

Quote:Ancient Judeans ate non-kosher seafood, fish bones show

Quote:Ancient Judeans ate non-kosher fish at a time when it was thought to have been prohibited in the Bible, according to a new study.
Researchers analyzed ancient fish bones from 30 archeological sites in areas that are now part of Israel and Egypt, dating from the Late Bronze Age (1550-1130 B.C.) to the end of the Byzantine period in 640 A.D.
The main principles of Jewish dietary law are laid down in the Chumash, or written Torah -- thought by many scholars to have been compiled during the Persian era (539-332 B.C.) and based on long-held traditions.


Quote:"What we found was that throughout the Iron Age ... there's no evidence that Judeans or Israelites were abstaining from scaleless fish," he said.

I guess they were telling this moses guy to go fuck himself?

 
This is one of the reason's I'm so interested in archaeology. They dig up the real life people lived in any given period of time and juxtapose it next to the lore, myth and religious wishful thinking texts and frequently find excessive exaggerations or highly embellished storytelling.
                                                         T4618
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#22

Pigs
Here you go, dear.  The Smithsonian rides in!


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n...MyNjgzMAS2


Quote:What Archaeology Tells Us About the Ancient History of Eating Kosher

A new study of fish remains deepens scholars’ understanding of how the dietary laws came to be


Quote:Now, in a study published today in the journal Tel Aviv, the pair reveals that ancient Judeans, in a period that spans throughout much of the first millennium B.C., enjoyed a diet that didn’t fully adhere to Jewish kosher laws. According to the study, archaeologists have found the remains of three non-kosher species in the two ancients Judean settlements—the Kingdom of Israel in the region’s north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. Judah residents in particular ate a lot of catfish. These findings help scientists and historians build a more complete picture of how the ancient Judean cultures developed and adopted these rules.

According to rabbinic tradition, Moses, the most important prophet in Judaism, received the commandments that outlined how to live life as a Jew sometime around the 13th century B.C. Scholars don’t know exactly when these rules and practices were written down into the Torah, but in his upcoming book, Adler argues that evidence for its observance does not appear until the Hasmonean period that lasted from 140 B.C. to 37 B.C. And the point in history at which Judean citizens adopted the dietary rules prescribed in Torah into their lifestyles, essentially becoming kosher, is also not certain.


And of course, they have to weigh in on the pigs.


Quote:Lidar Sapir-Hen, archaeozoologist at Tel Aviv University, who also studied the history of Judeans’ dietary restrictions but was not involved in this study, found similar evidence that Judeans weren’t following the laws of kashrut around similar dates that Adler examined. She had examined pig bones found in ancient Judean settlements. Pork is another type of non-kosher food and yet some digs yielded a number of pig remains. The ancient Kingdom of Judah, located in the region’s south part had very few pig bones, but the Kingdom of Israel up north had quite a few.

“It looks like in the Kingdom of Israel, a lot of people ate pork during the 8th century B.C.,” Sapir-Hen says. “So we think that these dietary prohibitions happened later.” Thus, the new study adds to the already mounting evidence that ancient Judeans weren’t strictly kosher. “I was happy to see that Yonatan and Omri came to a very similar conclusion as we did,” Sapir-Hen says.


So as you suggest....the bible is a pile of shit but we all knew that already.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#23

Pigs
(05-30-2021, 03:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-30-2021, 02:48 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I have often wondered by a book that is absolutely not kosher can tell people what IS kosher.

What is not kosher about the book?

ROFL2
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#24

Pigs
If you want to get rid of mice, bury a large barrel in the ground and put a funnel-shaped opening at the top. Fill it halfway with water and add some food items.
  [Image: attachment.php?aid=31] Dog  
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#25

Pigs
(05-30-2021, 03:40 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Here you go, dear.  The Smithsonian rides in!


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n...MyNjgzMAS2


Quote:What Archaeology Tells Us About the Ancient History of Eating Kosher

A new study of fish remains deepens scholars’ understanding of how the dietary laws came to be


Quote:Now, in a study published today in the journal Tel Aviv, the pair reveals that ancient Judeans, in a period that spans throughout much of the first millennium B.C., enjoyed a diet that didn’t fully adhere to Jewish kosher laws. According to the study, archaeologists have found the remains of three non-kosher species in the two ancients Judean settlements—the Kingdom of Israel in the region’s north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. Judah residents in particular ate a lot of catfish. These findings help scientists and historians build a more complete picture of how the ancient Judean cultures developed and adopted these rules.

According to rabbinic tradition, Moses, the most important prophet in Judaism, received the commandments that outlined how to live life as a Jew sometime around the 13th century B.C. Scholars don’t know exactly when these rules and practices were written down into the Torah, but in his upcoming book, Adler argues that evidence for its observance does not appear until the Hasmonean period that lasted from 140 B.C. to 37 B.C. And the point in history at which Judean citizens adopted the dietary rules prescribed in Torah into their lifestyles, essentially becoming kosher, is also not certain.


And of course, they have to weigh in on the pigs.


Quote:Lidar Sapir-Hen, archaeozoologist at Tel Aviv University, who also studied the history of Judeans’ dietary restrictions but was not involved in this study, found similar evidence that Judeans weren’t following the laws of kashrut around similar dates that Adler examined. She had examined pig bones found in ancient Judean settlements. Pork is another type of non-kosher food and yet some digs yielded a number of pig remains. The ancient Kingdom of Judah, located in the region’s south part had very few pig bones, but the Kingdom of Israel up north had quite a few.

“It looks like in the Kingdom of Israel, a lot of people ate pork during the 8th century B.C.,” Sapir-Hen says. “So we think that these dietary prohibitions happened later.” Thus, the new study adds to the already mounting evidence that ancient Judeans weren’t strictly kosher. “I was happy to see that Yonatan and Omri came to a very similar conclusion as we did,” Sapir-Hen says.


So as you suggest....the bible is a pile of shit but we all knew that already.

LOL.  I doubt they were using those pigs for truffle hunting.   I have several friends who are Jewish but they never follow the kosher rules in any manner and eat pork in all forms.   On the other hand my daughter hasn't eaten pork since she found out how very intelligent pigs are and we're an Irish/Scotch mix.  You know.....whatever floats your boat.  

If the Bible said don't eat pigs because they are so smart or don't eat them because you could get sick if not cooked correctly, I'd say.  "Oh, ok. That makes sense."  But that doesn't seem to be what is going on with the Biblical text.  Kosher food doesn't seem to be based on reason, it's based on power and control.   But isn't that what all religions are about.
                                                         T4618
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