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Dear theists
#26

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

IOW, I'm a materialist and anyone who isn't is wrong.
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#27

Dear theists
Quote:I just don't see the harm in people thinking differently than others,


Oh, there is nothing wrong with people thinking differently.  The problem with theists is that they have this compulsion to try to get their bullshit beliefs enacted into law so they can annoy everyone else.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#28

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:18 PM)Aliza Wrote: [...]I just don't see the harm in people thinking differently than others, and their ways of thinking may contribute to society in a good way. [...]

I do because thinking informs one actions. Fascists, nationalists, racists, bigots, etc. think differently and yet there is nothing of worth in their way of thinking. In fact societies are being hurt if too many people think in such ways.

You may say that theists don't equal fascists or other above mentioned and that it's true but their different way of thinking can easily rob others of freedoms that civilized society takes for granted - look to Poland and abortion ban here made possible because bunch of shit stains thought that women rights aren't anything important.

Thinking differently certainly isn't bad in itself but can easily become so.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#29

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:27 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I just don't see the harm in people thinking differently than others,


Oh, there is nothing wrong with people thinking differently.  The problem with theists is that they have this compulsion to try to get their bullshit beliefs enacted into law so they can annoy everyone else.

Yeah, if theists stopped trying to make their religions into actual law, I might not care about it much. But they just can't seem to help themselves about pushing their beliefs into enforcable ways. Everyone has an opinion about abortion and many other subjects; theists try to make laws that demand adherence to their religious beliefs. Etc. I don't think that way, and I won't put up with that. But it is in their minds that all must think as they do and ALL must enforce their beliefs.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#30

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:26 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

IOW, I'm a materialist and anyone who isn't is wrong.

No child, that's neither what he said, nor meant.
Do try to grow up some day.

We do get you know only a very few words, and "materialism" is one you /they like to throw around.
(You actually have no evidence for anything other, and if you do, post it here, now).
We know you have nothing.
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#31

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:49 PM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:27 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I just don't see the harm in people thinking differently than others,


Oh, there is nothing wrong with people thinking differently.  The problem with theists is that they have this compulsion to try to get their bullshit beliefs enacted into law so they can annoy everyone else.

Yeah, if theists stopped trying to make their religions into actual law, I might not care about it much.  But they just can't seem to help themselves about pushing their beliefs into enforcable ways.  Everyone has an opinion about abortion and many other subjects; theists try to make laws that demand adherence to their religious beliefs.  Etc.  I don't think that way, and I won't put up with that.  But it is in their minds that all must think as they do and ALL must enforce their beliefs.

I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others. I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant. 

Abortion, for example, can be viewed as murder and some people are against abortion as much as they're against murdering full-grown adults. Those two things can be seen as equally wrong and people may have difficulty seeing why some people think it's okay to "murder" a human just because they're too small to defend themselves.

Where I get disgusted with fundies is in their lack of ability to compromise or see another's perspective. If abortion is so wrong to them, and they can see that not everyone agrees with them, they should change their tactic from attempting to control the situation with brute force, and to offering attractive alternatives to abortion such as adoption or a promise to financially support the mother until the child is 21.

Unfortunately when the solution starts getting expensive, we see people's real intentions.
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#32

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:56 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others.

Possible but irrelevant [to me at least]. Most polish theists seem to want force their taboos onto others. USA also don't look particularly rosy in this regard.

Quote:I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant.

Can't say much about other religions but I consider christians to be fundamentally immoral people willing to worship genocidal tyrant and at best being good drones not hurting other cause they're afraid of space Hitler whose ass they're kissing.

As far as I am concerned one can't be a good person if one worships genocidal tyrant. Nor one can be truly good when his religion advocates such concepts as hell; obedience is not a virtue in itself.

Quote:Abortion, for example, can be viewed as murder and some people are against abortion as much as they're against murdering full-grown adults. Those two things can be seen as equally wrong and people may have difficulty seeing why some people think it's okay to "murder" a human just because they're too small to defend themselves.

I would say that abortion can be viewed as murder by half witted ignorant clowns thinking that religious fairy tales are anything else than bullshit.

Quote:Where I get disgusted with fundies is in their lack of ability to compromise or see another's perspective.

I'm disgusted by their mere existence.

 
Quote:If abortion is so wrong to them, and they can see that not everyone agrees with them, they should change their tactic from attempting to control the situation with brute force, and to offering attractive alternatives to abortion such as adoption or a promise to financially support the mother until the child is 21.

Unfortunately when the solution starts getting expensive, we see people's real intentions.

What you propose would still be shitty solution as it ignores that it is women in question that should decide not some mob. Why should gov of civilized country care about delusions of some ignorant fools? Whether fundies agrees with something or not is irrelevant as theocracies are thing of the past. Also most of all women right to decide about her boy trumps whatever dumb fantasy shamans and their sheep may prefer.

ETA: I however agree that fascists, religious clowns or sexists intentions are anything but what they publicly claim. It's easy enough to see that opposition to abortion is caused by wanting more bodies for Vaterland or cause wanting to punish women for sex. Pro forced birthers are never capable of hiding it for long.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on Earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#33

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 01:39 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Aliza is Jewish, not a Christian.  Tongue

That's the joke. @Aliza just luuurves Jesus.

Aliza and Jesus, sitting in a tree...  Whistling

Show ContentSpoiler:
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#34

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 12:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote: What are they grounded in then?
I dont know anything other than really real reality.
Are you saying I can't trust my perception of reality?

Lion, you've always been the one suffering from Dunning-Krueger. It's hilarious you post that video.
Yes ... we are saying you can't trust your "perception" of reality. It's all fucked up.
Many people perceive reality incorrectly.
You think because the chemicals in your brain make you *feel* a certain way at certain times, that it proves you gots your Jebus.
It's a very unreliable way to determine what reality is. Your "I feels good" religion.
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#35

Dear theists
Quote:I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others.


Really?


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Quote:Haredi youth mob Western Wall to protest women's prayer service


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Quote:Buddhists fan flames of Islamophobia in Southeast Asia

Did I miss any?  And it doesn't have to be ALL of them. A few is enough while the others stand by silently.  There is a  legal maxim.  Qui tacet consentire videtur.   He who is silent, agrees.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#36

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 01:45 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: ..The Hindu believes the exact same thing but you would still say their religion is false. They're as convinced as you are that their religion is correct.

Hindus think God/gods exist.
I think God/gods exist.

We think alike.
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#37

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:26 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

IOW, I'm a materialist and anyone who isn't is wrong.

Yeah, it sure sounds like Fundy-speak to me.
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#38

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 08:18 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 01:45 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: ..The Hindu believes the exact same thing but you would still say their religion is false. They're as convinced as you are that their religion is correct.

Hindus think God/gods exist.
I think God/gods exist.

We think alike.

Oh so you worship Vishnu then?
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#39

Dear theists
Jesus will be pissed when he hears that.  He's a jealous motherfucker.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#40

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 08:18 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 01:45 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: ..The Hindu believes the exact same thing but you would still say their religion is false. They're as convinced as you are that their religion is correct.

Hindus think God/gods exist.
I think God/gods exist.

We think alike.

Yup. There is no dearth of idiots.
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#41

Dear theists
"Religion is the greatest fomenter of hatred the world has ever known." (H.L. Mencken)  Consider
“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)
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#42

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:39 PM)Kim Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote: Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

Hmm
Well, that's ubiquity for you.  

Imagine being restricted from holding public office because you hold no faith in the existance of a deity.  

Seven US states' constitutions restrict atheists from holding public office.  If pressed, those restrictions would likely be legally unenforceable but, it's certainly enough to burst a few "happiness and success" bubbles.

That isn't a theist issue, that's a fundie issue. If an atheist wants to hold public office, but someone actually calls them out for their lack of religious beliefs, then the atheist should sue the state and move to another state where they can represent the people who want to be represented by them.

... and when they get into office, they should do an amazing job and make a huge display of being fair and honest in their work. Let them be a positive example that belief in a deity isn't a pre-requisite for holding office.

Move to another state?
Gee, why didn't someone think of that before? Dodgy
________________________________________________
A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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#43

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 02:22 PM)Kim Wrote: Move to another state?  
Gee, why didn't someone think of that before?   Dodgy

It's what I would do.  If you want to run for office but you don't appeal to your constituents, then you have to weigh out your options to secure a desirable outcome. It seems like the most practical solution to me. Dunno
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#44

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:56 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others. I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant. 

That depends on your environment and the people you meet, as well as your religion\non-religion.

Where I live, I am a pariah because I don't belong to a church. People won't befriend me if I don't join their church or already belong to another Christian church.

Jews don't act that. And, Christians don't tend to act like that towards Jews.  

The opinions in this thread generalize and don't make the needed distinctions.
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#45

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 04:05 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 05:56 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others. I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant. 

That depends on your environment and the people you meet, as well as your religion\non-religion.

Where I live, I am a pariah because I don't belong to a church. People won't befriend me if I don't join their church or already belong to another Christian church.

Not wanting to hang out with you isn't the same as trying to enforce their beliefs on you.
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#46

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 04:24 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 04:05 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 05:56 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others. I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant. 

That depends on your environment and the people you meet, as well as your religion\non-religion.

Where I live, I am a pariah because I don't belong to a church. People won't befriend me if I don't join their church or already belong to another Christian church.

Not wanting to hang out with you isn't the same as trying to enforce their beliefs on you.

Treating her as a social pariah is the same as telling her, that without accepting their beliefs, she is unacceptable.
And it's not at all a charitable standard, which they preach.
If they were not the hypocrites they are, they would treat her charitably as a child of God, which they claim we all are.
It's subtle, but then, subtleties escape you.
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#47

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:26 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare.

IOW, I'm a materialist and anyone who isn't is wrong.

Nope.  You've misunderstood this.  What Phaedrus said, clearly, was that the religious
mindset is skewed by beliefs in supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena. In
other words, theists all too often disregard science and logic in favour of fantasy fiction,
which in turn limits their accurate perception of the world and its vagaries around them.

Praying to some mythical sky-daddy—from one of any of the 22,000 global religions—has
never once helped anybody in a real-world, practical sense.  The 5-year-old in Africa dying
for the want of clean drinking water; the 10-year-old dying from cancer; the poor villagers
killed in a flood; the young mother run over by a speeding drunk driver; the grandparents
burned to death trapped in a house fire etc.

In all these case, many people "prayed" to their deity of choice before or after the particular
disaster—all to absolutely no avail.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#48

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 05:30 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:26 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare.

IOW, I'm a materialist and anyone who isn't is wrong.

Nope.  You've misunderstood this.  What Phaedrus said, clearly, was that the religious
mindset is skewed by beliefs in supernatural entities and paranormal phenomena. 

Yes, that's a materialist's position. What did I misunderstand?
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#49

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 04:24 PM)Percie Wrote: Not wanting to hang out with you isn't the same as trying to enforce their beliefs on you.

So... in effect you're saying it's perfectly okay for a supposedly "Christian"
community to force social isolation upon, say, a Muslim, or a Jew or Hindu?

Is this just another example of theist hypocrisy?  And why, do you think, your
theist friends choose to exclude someone from the wider community?
 
Could that possibly be due to racism, ageism, sexism, homophobia, or just
because the person is somehow "different" or—shit oh dear!—an an actual
living, breathing atheist?
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#50

Dear theists
(05-18-2021, 04:24 PM)Percie Wrote:
(05-18-2021, 04:05 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 05:56 PM)Aliza Wrote: I don't think it's in the mindset of most theists to enforce their beliefs onto others. I think the vast majority of theists are well adjusted people who respect the boundaries of church and state. It's true that some of what they consider to be social norms are the result of their cultural upbringing, and anything else could be seen as abnormal and deviant. 

That depends on your environment and the people you meet, as well as your religion\non-religion.

Where I live, I am a pariah because I don't belong to a church. People won't befriend me if I don't join their church or already belong to another Christian church.

Not wanting to hang out with you isn't the same as trying to enforce their beliefs on you.

No it isn't by itself, but it becomes that after they ascertain that I don't belong to any church, and they fail to convince me to join theirs despite repeat "invitations". Up until that point, they are quite friendly and sociable. 

Just yesterday I received a hand written letter from my neighbor Gary (I don't know a neighbor named Gary, and very few people live out here). He went on about understanding that it's hard times, that I might find some comfort at such and such a website, and that such and such a local church would be happy to discuss it with me and help me out.
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