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Dear theists
#1

Dear theists
Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker
[Image: 8a487e2d72e959c458857f1b72271166.gif]
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#2

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza
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#3

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

You might be thinking of anti-theists. Not all atheists hold the view that the concept of god is inherently harmful. Personally I never completely understood anti-theism (oh noes!), but I do understand the revulsion towards religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) and specific god-concepts.
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#4

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

Meaning?
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#5

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:44 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

You might be thinking of anti-theists. Not all atheists hold the view that the concept of god is inherently harmful. Personally I never completely understood anti-theism (oh noes!), but I do understand the revulsion towards religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) and specific god-concepts.

"Atheist' comes from the greek "a' meaning not and "theist". So it means "not theist". I'm curious what you consider the difference to be then from "not-theist" and "anti-theist". I gather you mean a neutral position and consider that there are differences. Personally, I'm not quite sure what that would be. So, I invite you to discuss that further.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#6

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:18 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:44 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote: Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

You might be thinking of anti-theists. Not all atheists hold the view that the concept of god is inherently harmful. Personally I never completely understood anti-theism (oh noes!), but I do understand the revulsion towards religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) and specific god-concepts.

"Atheist' comes from the greek "a' meaning not and "theist".  So it means "not theist".  I'm curious what you consider the difference to be then from "not-theist" and "anti-theist".  I gather you mean a neutral position and consider that there are differences.  Personally, I'm not quite sure what that would be.  So, I invite you to discuss that further.

Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god(s) and regard it as fundamentally harmful.  An atheist simply doesn't believe in god(s). That's the commonly understood distinction at least for atheists who are knowledgable about arguments for/against belief in god.
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#7

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:28 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:18 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:44 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: You might be thinking of anti-theists. Not all atheists hold the view that the concept of god is inherently harmful. Personally I never completely understood anti-theism (oh noes!), but I do understand the revulsion towards religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) and specific god-concepts.

"Atheist' comes from the greek "a' meaning not and "theist".  So it means "not theist".  I'm curious what you consider the difference to be then from "not-theist" and "anti-theist".  I gather you mean a neutral position and consider that there are differences.  Personally, I'm not quite sure what that would be.  So, I invite you to discuss that further.

Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god. An atheist simply doesn't believe in god. That's the commonly understood distinction.

OK, I had to think about that. Thinking is good. If I understand you correctly, "anti-theists" (your term) actively oppose a believe in any theism while "atheists" just "don't believe in a deity".

In my thoughts, I am both. I don't believe in a deity as any sort of cosmic existence. But since I don't consider there IS any deity, that part doesn't bother me much. Non-existence is sort of unimportant. It is our human theisms about non-existent deities and the worship of them that troubles the me personally and world in general.

So which or both do you consider I am and why does it matter? I hope this discussion will continue.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#8

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:53 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:28 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:18 AM)Cavebear Wrote: "Atheist' comes from the greek "a' meaning not and "theist".  So it means "not theist".  I'm curious what you consider the difference to be then from "not-theist" and "anti-theist".  I gather you mean a neutral position and consider that there are differences.  Personally, I'm not quite sure what that would be.  So, I invite you to discuss that further.

Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god. An atheist simply doesn't believe in god. That's the commonly understood distinction.

OK, I had to think about that. Thinking is good.  If I understand you correctly, "anti-theists" (your term) actively oppose a believe in any theism while "atheists" just "don't believe in a deity".

In my thoughts, I am both.  I don't believe in a deity as any sort of cosmic existence.  But since I don't consider there IS any deity, that part doesn't bother me much. Non-existence is sort of unimportant.  It is our human theisms about non-existent deities and the worship of them that troubles the me personally and world in general.  

So which or both do you consider I am and why does it matter?  I hope this discussion will continue.

Well if you are both then you are both. Not gonna argue against that. As for me the part I'm not entirely sure about is what's particularly harmful about someone who believes in god but just keeps it to themselves, and they don't push their beliefs on others, so that's why I'm not convinced all belief in god is harmful.
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#9

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:02 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: ... so that's why I'm not convinced all belief in god is harmful ...

It depends on what the god is used for.  A god used to impart a sense of being protected could lead someone to be less cautious, believing the god will shield them from their mistakes, or the mistakes of others, and take chances on a freeway they wouldn't otherwise take, endangering other drivers.

Or a god used to rationalize actions the user knows are wrong but believes the god is on their side are almost always harmful to others.

Or using a god as a personal servant that might grants requests or welcome suggestions will distract from doing any truly constructive act, and give the supplicant a feeling of pride for keeping the god in the loop, leaving undone some act that undone, caused harm or failed to prevent harm to others.

Just in general, tolerating a belief in a fantasy, thus promulgating falsehood, is certainly more likely to derail something dependent on reality than augment it.

If preserving a desirable state of mind can only be achieved by unplugging connection to reality, when many people are able to sustain desirable states of mind without needing to detach from reality, seems to me to be courting harm more than staving it off.
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#10

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:02 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:53 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:28 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god. An atheist simply doesn't believe in god. That's the commonly understood distinction.

OK, I had to think about that. Thinking is good.  If I understand you correctly, "anti-theists" (your term) actively oppose a believe in any theism while "atheists" just "don't believe in a deity".

In my thoughts, I am both.  I don't believe in a deity as any sort of cosmic existence.  But since I don't consider there IS any deity, that part doesn't bother me much. Non-existence is sort of unimportant.  It is our human theisms about non-existent deities and the worship of them that troubles the me personally and world in general.  

So which or both do you consider I am and why does it matter?  I hope this discussion will continue.

Well if you are both then you are both. Not gonna argue against that. As for me the part I'm not entirely sure about is what's particularly harmful about someone who believes in god but just keeps it to themselves, and they don't push their beliefs on others, so that's why I'm not convinced all belief in god is harmful.

The problem is that I have never met anyone who believed in a deity of any sort who could just keep it to themselves.  Theists have an inner requirement/desire to spread their theisms to be part of laws, society, and interpersonal relationships.   As far as I can tell, no theist can avoid putting a deity into their daily actions.  They seem to have an innate drive to "save" others (always to their own particular theism of course.)  

And I can. I don't make it a point to tell others I'm free of religion.  When it comes up in discussion, I tell people, but I don't push it. I just discuss rational thoughts.  It's up to them.  I support atheism HERE because it is an atheist site and I like to discuss it sometimes.

I positively think that theistic beliefs are harmful to society and humanity in general.  I consider that most of human misery has been caused by struggles between theisms.  If theism was magically eliminated, I would consider that a good thing.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#11

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 04:53 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:28 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:18 AM)Cavebear Wrote: "Atheist' comes from the greek "a' meaning not and "theist".  So it means "not theist".  I'm curious what you consider the difference to be then from "not-theist" and "anti-theist".  I gather you mean a neutral position and consider that there are differences.  Personally, I'm not quite sure what that would be.  So, I invite you to discuss that further.

Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god. An atheist simply doesn't believe in god. That's the commonly understood distinction.

OK, I had to think about that. Thinking is good.  If I understand you correctly, "anti-theists" (your term) actively oppose a believe in any theism while "atheists" just "don't believe in a deity".

In my thoughts, I am both.  I don't believe in a deity as any sort of cosmic existence.  But since I don't consider there IS any deity, that part doesn't bother me much. Non-existence is sort of unimportant.  It is our human theisms about non-existent deities and the worship of them that troubles the me personally and world in general.  

So which or both do you consider I am and why does it matter?  I hope this discussion will continue.

I'd like to jump in and add that anti-theists often seem to be opposed to the individual people who are theists.
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#12

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:39 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:53 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 04:28 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Simple. Anti-theists are fundamentally opposed to belief in god. An atheist simply doesn't believe in god. That's the commonly understood distinction.

OK, I had to think about that. Thinking is good.  If I understand you correctly, "anti-theists" (your term) actively oppose a believe in any theism while "atheists" just "don't believe in a deity".

In my thoughts, I am both.  I don't believe in a deity as any sort of cosmic existence.  But since I don't consider there IS any deity, that part doesn't bother me much. Non-existence is sort of unimportant.  It is our human theisms about non-existent deities and the worship of them that troubles the me personally and world in general.  

So which or both do you consider I am and why does it matter?  I hope this discussion will continue.

I'd like to jump in and add that anti-theists often seem to be opposed to the individual people who are theists.

I am definitely opposed to theists. That may have been the easiest answer for me ever.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#13

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:46 AM)Cavebear Wrote: ...I am definitely opposed to theists.  That may have been the easiest answer for me ever.

I have no opposition to theists per se,  nor do I ever actively attempt to dissuade them
of their beliefs, no matter how ill-informed, archaic, and ultimately absurd those beliefs are.

What I will  do however is to strongly oppose the outmoded, mendacious, nonsensical
dogma of the various religions themselves.  There are currently several wars being raged
across the world based purely in the cause of religion—as there has been for millennia.  We
only have to look at the the Arab–Israeli conflict, the Bosnian war, the Sudanese genocide,
the 2002 Gujarat violence, or the Sunni–Shia division as recent examples.

I've also not seen any recorded conflicts—ever—of opposition atheist groups fighting each
other in the name of atheism.

Having said all that, I do believe it's important not to hate the person themselves for their
religiosity—many of my friends are practising Christians.  In general though, I exclude
rabid extremist Muslims who invariably preach warfare, murder, and terrorism in the name
of Islam, and who lie about its claim to be a religion of peace.  These fundamentalists—who
envision a global regime based on sharia religious law—argue for an Islam largely or totally
unchanged from its original 17th-century version and take it as a requirement of their faith
that they impose it on everyone else.      We should be very wary.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#14

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 12:14 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 05:46 AM)Cavebear Wrote: ...I am definitely opposed to theists.  That may have been the easiest answer for me ever.

I have no opposition to theists per se,  nor do I ever actively attempt to dissuade them
of their beliefs, no matter how ill-informed, archaic, and ultimately absurd those beliefs are.

What I will  do however is to strongly oppose the outmoded, mendacious, nonsensical
dogma of the various religions themselves.  There are currently several wars being raged
across the world based purely in the cause of religion—as there has been for millennia.  We
only have to look at the the Arab–Israeli conflict, the Bosnian war, the Sudanese genocide,
the 2002 Gujarat violence, or the Sunni–Shia division as recent examples.

I've also not seen any recorded conflicts—ever—of opposition atheist groups fighting each
other in the name of atheism.

Having said all that, I do believe it's important not to hate the person themselves for their
religiosity—many of my friends are practising Christians.  In general though, I exclude
rabid extremist Muslims who invariably preach warfare, murder, and terrorism in the name
of Islam, and who lie about its claim to be a religion of peace.  These fundamentalists—who
envision a global regime based on sharia religious law—argue for an Islam largely or totally
unchanged from its original 17th-century version and take it as a requirement of their faith
that they impose it on everyone else.      We should be very wary.

Well, we certainly disagree on that, but you explained your position well. I respect that.

But I have to ask, if there was no religious strife, wouldn't world civilization be a whole lot easier and peaceful? You provided fine examples yourself.

I'll even toss you a softball question. What if all theists got along just great as if they were just fans of different sports teams?
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#15

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Dear Faith's Nightmare,
What are they grounded in then?
I dont know anything other than really real reality.
Are you saying I can't trust my perception of reality?
....is this not my beutiful house, is this not my beautiful wife?
Am I right? Am I wrong? 
""My God! What have I done?"
Kind regards - Lion IRC

[Image: father-clements-body-theology-knowing-my...40_544.png]
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#16

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 05:39 AM)Aliza Wrote: I'd like to jump in and add that anti-theists often seem to be opposed to the individual people who are theists.

Beats being – often gloatingly – told that you’re going to be tortured for eternity unless you’re just like me and that you’re inherently inferior and one short step away from raping and murdering.

The sad fact of the matter is, we’re inherently tribal (not to mention hierarchical), instinct-driven creatures with only the thinnest of rational veneers and by the looks of it, we’ll always gonna be. If it’s not those damn republikkunts or the regressive left, niggers, faggots, cucks, chinks (that joke of a person in Rio regularly used this one. That’s how I learnt it), religitards, conservatards, etc., etc., it’s gonna be something else instead. The language used may become slightly less ugly but the innate reason behind it ain’t going anywhere.

Your bae, Jesus, got it right: if you ain’t with me, you’re against me.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#17

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 01:34 PM)Vera Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 05:39 AM)Aliza Wrote: I'd like to jump in and add that anti-theists often seem to be opposed to the individual people who are theists.

Beats being – often gloatingly – told that you’re going to be tortured for eternity unless you’re just like me and that you’re inherently inferior and one short step away from raping and murdering.

The sad fact of the matter is, we’re inherently tribal (not to mention hierarchical), instinct-driven creatures with only the thinnest of rational veneers and by the looks of it, we’ll always gonna be. If it’s not those damn republikkunts or the regressive left, niggers, faggots, cucks, chinks (that joke of a person in Rio regularly used this one. That’s how I learnt it), religitards, conservatards, etc., etc., it’s gonna be something else instead. The language used may become slightly less ugly but the innate reason behind it ain’t going anywhere.

Your bae, Jesus, got it right: if you ain’t with me, you’re against me.

Aliza is Jewish, not a Christian.  Tongue
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#18

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 12:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Dear Faith's Nightmare,
What are they grounded in then?
I dont know anything other than really real reality.

The Hindu believes the exact same thing but you would still say their religion is false. They're as convinced as you are that their religion is correct.
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#19

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote: Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

Hmm
Well, that's ubiquity for you.

Imagine being restricted from holding public office because you hold no faith in the existance of a deity.

Seven US states' constitutions restrict atheists from holding public office. If pressed, those restrictions would likely be legally unenforceable but, it's certainly enough to burst a few "happiness and success" bubbles.
________________________________________________
A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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#20

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 02:39 PM)Kim Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote: Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

Hmm
Well, that's ubiquity for you.  

Imagine being restricted from holding public office because you hold no faith in the existance of a deity.  

Seven US states' constitutions restrict atheists from holding public office.  If pressed, those restrictions would likely be legally unenforceable but, it's certainly enough to burst a few "happiness and success" bubbles.

That isn't a theist issue, that's a fundie issue. If an atheist wants to hold public office, but someone actually calls them out for their lack of religious beliefs, then the atheist should sue the state and move to another state where they can represent the people who want to be represented by them.

... and when they get into office, they should do an amazing job and make a huge display of being fair and honest in their work. Let them be a positive example that belief in a deity isn't a pre-requisite for holding office.
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#21

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 12:33 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Dear Faith's Nightmare,
What are they grounded in then?
I dont know anything other than really real reality.
Are you saying I can't trust my perception of reality?
....is this not my beutiful house, is this not my beautiful wife?
Am I right? Am I wrong? 
""My God! What have I done?"
Kind regards - Lion IRC

[Image: father-clements-body-theology-knowing-my...40_544.png]

Provide evidence your god exists.  Thus far no theists anywhere on this planet has sucessfully completed this task.  Good luck.  We'll all be waiting with bated breath. 

Deadpan Coffee Drinker
                                                         T4618
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#22

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

I occasionally think of starting a thread about that, (maybe including that some former-theists, including some very prominent Christian writers, such as Thomas Merton), have "grown out of" or "grown through" their original theism, not actually "rejecting it", but treating it as a legitimate "stage on the road") but I think I did that once on TTA and it was a fricking disaster.  Weeping
Tongue
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#23

Dear theists
What's wrong with disasters?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#24

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:59 PM)Minimalist Wrote: What's wrong with disasters?

As long as they are natural ones...
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#25

Dear theists
(05-17-2021, 03:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 03:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 02:00 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: Your religious related mind concepts are not grounded in reality.

Sincerely,
Faith's Nightmare

Deadpan Coffee Drinker

Read

Dear Atheists,

I like my way of life and it doesn't seem to hold me back from happiness and success.

Sincerely,
Aliza

I occasionally think of starting a thread about that, (maybe including that some former-theists (including some very prominent Christian writers, such as Thomas Merton), have "grown out of" or "grown through" their original theism, not actually "rejecting it", but treating it as a legitimate "stage on the road") but I think I did that once on TTA and it was a fricking disaster.  Weeping
Tongue

I think that actually describes me well. Before I wandered onto TTA, I had already taken steps to relax my observance and I'm far less observant now... but I'm still considered one of the more religious people in my family. I just don't see the harm in people thinking differently than others, and their ways of thinking may contribute to society in a good way. The diversity of thought and practice gives people more ideas and ways of thinking to choose from so our society can take the best of each culture and incorporate it into the collective norms.
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