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It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
#26

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 01:46 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Worrying about what other people are wearing is a very Southern Baptist thing.

Hold my beer.

Sincerely, Muslims.
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#27

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 02:13 PM)abaris Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 01:13 PM)Aliza Wrote: So you think right after a stampede, people went to retrieve candles (and matches!) and they returned to the site to pack themselves in once again and block response units from doing their jobs?

According to news coverage, they did exactly that.

Can you link me? I'm trying to find it.
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#28

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 02:51 PM)Aliza Wrote: Can you link me? I'm trying to find it.

I could only link you to german sources claiming to get their reports from Israeli media. The BBC report comes as close to my sources as it gets.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56943755

That's from the Israeli Times:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-dead-w...sh-horror/

Quote:MDA spokesman Zaki Heller told the Ynet news site that the deaths were caused by severe overcrowding.

Quote:At around midnight Thursday, organizers had estimated that some 100,000 people were at the site, with an additional 100,000 expected to arrive by Friday morning.


Quote:Earlier police struggled to clear the crowds from the scene to allow access to ambulances. Loudspeakers called in Yiddish and Hebrew for people to make way and let rescuers come through.
Israel’s Chief Rabbi Israel Meir Lau, who was on one of the stages at the time of the apparent collapse, remained there with other leading rabbis, saying psalms for the wounded.

Another one about them not following instructions.

https://broadway.me/hajj-disaster-at-lea...rael-news/

Quote:And as The Times of Israel reported, they did not follow police instructions. There were also arguments. The newspaper quoted one of the attendees as saying, “They are preventing us for no reason.” “I wanted to pray.” Pictures of the confrontations were also shown on television.

And another one.

https://pledgetimes.com/mass-panic-in-is...-festival/

Quote:The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, some by rescue helicopter. The police blocked access roads and cleared the area. According to media reports, however, hundreds of believers refused to leave because they wanted to pray.
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#29

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 03:08 PM)abaris Wrote: Another one about them not following instructions.

https://broadway.me/hajj-disaster-at-lea...rael-news/

Quote:And as The Times of Israel reported, they did not follow police instructions. There were also arguments. The newspaper quoted one of the attendees as saying, “They are preventing us for no reason.” “I wanted to pray.” Pictures of the confrontations were also shown on television.

And another one.

https://pledgetimes.com/mass-panic-in-is...-festival/

Quote:The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, some by rescue helicopter. The police blocked access roads and cleared the area. According to media reports, however, hundreds of believers refused to leave because they wanted to pray.

Oh, I thought like thousands upon thousands of people stayed to pray, blocking rescue workers. 100,000 people attended the event, but only "hundreds" refused to leave. That's not a religious people problem as a whole, that's just a handful of stupid assholes (who by all rights should have been arrested).
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#30

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
You don't have to be stupid to act stupid under the influence of a belief. I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent people who believe the U.S. election was stolen and are pressured to act accordingly. I'm reminded of the man who drove a train beyond the end of the tracks, hoping to ram it into some center where something he thought was going on, with the intent to disrupt activities. It was the belief that made him act in a stupid fashion, not any native stupidity.
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#31

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 03:28 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 03:08 PM)abaris Wrote: Another one about them not following instructions.

https://broadway.me/hajj-disaster-at-lea...rael-news/

Quote:And as The Times of Israel reported, they did not follow police instructions. There were also arguments. The newspaper quoted one of the attendees as saying, “They are preventing us for no reason.” “I wanted to pray.” Pictures of the confrontations were also shown on television.

And another one.

https://pledgetimes.com/mass-panic-in-is...-festival/

Quote:The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, some by rescue helicopter. The police blocked access roads and cleared the area. According to media reports, however, hundreds of believers refused to leave because they wanted to pray.

Oh, I thought like thousands upon thousands of people stayed to pray, blocking rescue workers. 100,000 people attended the event, but only "hundreds" refused to leave. That's not a religious people problem as a whole, that's just a handful of stupid assholes (who by all rights should have been arrested).

But it's the ultra religious types who tend to be the biggest assholes.  Tongue
Sometimes you just have no words all you can do is laugh at the stupidity. Deadpan Coffee Drinker
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#32

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 03:28 PM)Aliza Wrote: Oh, I thought like thousands upon thousands of people stayed to pray, blocking rescue workers. 100,000 people attended the event, but only "hundreds" refused to leave. That's not a religious people problem as a whole, that's just a handful of stupid assholes (who by all rights should have been arrested).

No, no religious problem at all. Apart from the fact that more than a 100.000 attended at a site designed to host around 10.000. Which caused the disaster in the first place.
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#33

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
As usual, politics seems to be at the heart of the matter!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/01/world...mpede.html


Quote:Successive Israeli governments were blamed for turning a blind eye to safety issues on the mountain for more than a decade to avoid alienating the ultra-Orthodox Jews who attend the annual celebration, known in Hebrew as a hillula. Seven of the last nine Israeli governing coalitions have relied on the support of ultra-Orthodox parties.


Heaven forbid that anyone tells the assholes "No!"
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#34

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 04:11 PM)abaris Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 03:28 PM)Aliza Wrote: Oh, I thought like thousands upon thousands of people stayed to pray, blocking rescue workers. 100,000 people attended the event, but only "hundreds" refused to leave. That's not a religious people problem as a whole, that's just a handful of stupid assholes (who by all rights should have been arrested).

No, no religious problem at all. Apart from the fact that more than a 100.000 attended at a site designed to host around 10.000. Which caused the disaster in the first place.

I think the value is 25,000 that the event was meant to hold. It's my understanding that they were promoting this event heavily because they didn't think they'd get even 25K. It was the first legal public event following their supposed successful vaccine campaign, but I guess they anticipated people would be hesitant to attend. I think the same kind of confusion could have happened at any other type of event, be it sporting, music, or a massive parade to honor the color green.

They expected 25K, they were surprised with 100K.
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#35

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 04:21 PM)Aliza Wrote: I think the value is 25,000 that the event was meant to hold. It's my understanding that they were promoting this event heavily because they didn't think they'd get even 25K. It was the first legal public event following their supposed successful vaccine campaign, but I guess they anticipated people would be hesitant to attend. I think the same kind of confusion could have happened at any other type of event, be it sporting, music, or a massive parade to honor the color green.

They expected 25K, they were surprised with 100K.

See min's post above.
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#36

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 12:55 PM)Aliza Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 05:06 AM)Inkubus Wrote: Imagine you're a graduate from a western university and you've been invited to Tel Aviv to run the tech department of a new company. And this monkey is conducting the interview.

[Image: 4436-jewish-men-with-sidelocks-peoth-BP5K0Y.jpg]

You would grab the next flight home. How can anyone take these clowns seriously?

Why would you go to a foreign country to interview for a position if you didn't know who was interviewing you?

... and if the tech company was in Israel, why would they need to hire foreign help?

[Image: eb3f008ae3541a5b996fdd627b0323dc.jpg]
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#37

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 01:13 PM)Aliza Wrote: ...I'll bet their prayers didn't harm anyone at all, and may have even soothed those 100K people and their families who were just involved in a terrifying experience.

Unfortunately, this is an all-too-common defence by the religionists when a disaster occurs
at large religious gatherings such as the Lag Ba'Omer pilgrimage—where the attendees were
actually praying during the gathering.  Which clearly illustrates the pointlessness of
prayer (by any/all religions).

Obviously prayer per se  doesn't harm anybody in a personal sense, but en masse it can often
lead to disastrous consequences, such as Mount Meron, where we saw mass hysteria, collective
illusions of danger, blind panic, deadly self-preservation, and heedless egocentricity which resulted
in the avoidable deaths of numerous other worshippers. What sort of religion can condone this?  
Why has this scenario been repeated so many times in the past in Israel?  Will they never learn?

And for anybody to say that praying "comforts" distressed people;  well, that's a total unknown
as no objective evidence exists—or can exist.  It's simply a claim made by the people praying in
tacit support of their own  religious beliefs.

[And Aliza, this is not  intended to denigrate your beliefs personally in any way—it's purely
intended as a commentary on this specific event and its deadly outcome.]   Sun
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#38

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
Quote:...I'll bet their prayers didn't harm anyone at all,


But they don't do fuckall to help, either.

Remember:

[Image: thumb_prayer-helping-people-feel-better-...372939.png]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#39

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 06:06 PM)SYZ Wrote: And for anybody to say that praying "comforts" distressed people;  well, that's a total unknown
as no objective evidence exists—or can exist.  It's simply a claim made by the people praying in
tacit support of their own  religious beliefs.

Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.
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#40

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
They're "dopes."
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#41

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 08:55 PM)Dom Wrote: Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.

LOL... I get my dopamine from chocolate.  Yum.

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I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#42

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
I don't mind if theistic crazies trample each other in fervor or fear. The fewer the better. If they ALL killed each other and the last remaining one was killed by a bus, I would cheer.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#43

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-02-2021, 07:54 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I don't mind if theistic crazies trample each other in fervor or fear.  The fewer the better.  If they ALL killed each other and the last remaining one was killed by a bus, I would cheer.

I'm not a fan of the ultra religious either, but your's is a disgusting point. At least in my opinion. Loss of life is never something to gloat over.
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#44

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes



They look like those pentecostal assholes we have over here.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#45

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-02-2021, 10:52 AM)abaris Wrote:
(05-02-2021, 07:54 AM)Cavebear Wrote: I don't mind if theistic crazies trample each other in fervor or fear.  The fewer the better.  If they ALL killed each other and the last remaining one was killed by a bus, I would cheer.

I'm not a fan of the ultra religious either, but your's is a disgusting point. At least in my opinion. Loss of life is never something to gloat over.

I am sorry you are offended (and *I* am not offended by YOUR reply), but I'm not going to apologize about it either. There are 7.9 Billion humans on Earth. If a few hundred theist lunatics kill themselves by mutual stupidity at one event, it doesn't really make much difference. And I do not hide the fact that I think of theists as superstitious idiots the world could be well rid of. My view of history is that religion and other superstitions are the major cause of human misery from the first damn idiot who conceived of a deity to the newest damn idiot with a corner church with a small bunch of suckers who give him/her money for being told they are sinners every week.

Theism is probably the 2nd most deadly thing in existence (got to hand first place to viruses and bacteria) to humans. But we didn't create viruses and bacteria. We DID create theism. We are apparently ALMOST our own worst enemy. The people who willingly give up their one life hoping for an afterlife have already mostly lost their's anyway. They were true fanatics.

I want to get one thing straight about the self-caused deaths of the theists at the event. I was not "gloating". I feel sorrow for the family members who loved them. I slightly regret what they may have accomplished in life had they survived. But their self-elimination does not distress me. It's not like *I* caused it. And to be honest, had I been able to prevent it, I probably would have. Just for their family and friends and even loved pets.

But just as equally, I won't miss them. And I should mention I am a big fan of The Darwin Awards. I fully and enthusiastically grant any damn idiot the right to self-removal. I want the world a better place for me to live in, and stupid people and theists (I know, a conflation in my view) seem to be actively fighting against that. I have reasons to think that way...

Climate-change deniers
Anti-vaccers
Theists
Evolution-deniers
Trumpists
Private militias
Telemarketers
Etc
Etc
Etc

OK?
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#46

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-01-2021, 08:55 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 06:06 PM)SYZ Wrote: And for anybody to say that praying "comforts" distressed people;  well, that's a total unknown
as no objective evidence exists—or can exist.  It's simply a claim made by the people praying in
tacit support of their own  religious beliefs.

Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.

Agreed.  Asking for objective evidence of an action causing an emotion seems unnecessary, like asking for objective evidence that sports or music or sex really make people happy, or getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel really hurts.  I mean, humanity could just be pulling a fast one and has been faking this shit for the last several hundred thousand years.
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#47

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-03-2021, 02:45 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 08:55 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 06:06 PM)SYZ Wrote: And for anybody to say that praying "comforts" distressed people;  well, that's a total unknown
as no objective evidence exists—or can exist.  It's simply a claim made by the people praying in
tacit support of their own  religious beliefs.

Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.

Agreed.  Asking for objective evidence of an action causing an emotion seems unnecessary, like asking for objective evidence that sports or music or sex really make people happy, or getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel really hurts.  I mean, humanity could just be pulling a fast one and has been faking this shit for the last several hundred thousand years.

Emotions can be studied scientifically. MRIs work well to detect changes in emotion.

And I will add that there is a difference between "getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel". One hurts more.
Atheist born and when I die, still an atheist...
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#48

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-03-2021, 03:38 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-03-2021, 02:45 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 08:55 PM)Dom Wrote: Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.

Agreed.  Asking for objective evidence of an action causing an emotion seems unnecessary, like asking for objective evidence that sports or music or sex really make people happy, or getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel really hurts.  I mean, humanity could just be pulling a fast one and has been faking this shit for the last several hundred thousand years.

Emotions can be studied scientifically.  MRIs work well to detect changes in emotion.

And I will add that there is a difference between "getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel".  One hurts more.

We know exactly how dopamine and serotonin and other body chemistry works. Dopamine - Wikipedia  Serotonin - Wikipedia

If you want to understand your emotions better, try reading these: Microsoft Word - EMOTION04.doc (wisc.edu),  Hormones and Chemicals Linked with our Emotion | Amrita Vishwa VidyapeethamNeural basis of emotions - Scholarpedia, and on and on.

Basically, cognition tells you what is happening, chemistry reacts to this information by sending various chemicals including hormones, which influence your reaction to the cognitive stimuli.
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#49

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-03-2021, 02:00 AM)Cavebear Wrote: ...I want to get one thing straight about the self-caused deaths of the theists at the event.  I was not "gloating".

Mate... this is not the time to rely on semantics to defend what you said:

Quote:I don't mind if theistic crazies trample each other in fervor or fear. The fewer the better. If
they ALL killed each other and the last remaining one was killed by a bus, I would cheer.

If that [bolded] is not gloating, then what is it?

gloat:  intransitive verb:  —to observe or comment about something
with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, or gratification: To feel
or express pleasure or satisfaction because of someone else's failure or
bad luck.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#50

It Isn't Only The Arabs Who Gather At Tombs of Old Dead Assholes
(05-03-2021, 03:38 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(05-03-2021, 02:45 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(05-01-2021, 08:55 PM)Dom Wrote: Well, praying does release dopamine (as do many other activities and also chemicals found in plants). Dopamine does have a calming effect. So, yes, praying does have a calming effect.

I'll go as far as to say that many people who pray a lot are addicted to this. Dopamine is a base for other addictions, too.

Agreed.  Asking for objective evidence of an action causing an emotion seems unnecessary, like asking for objective evidence that sports or music or sex really make people happy, or getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel really hurts.  I mean, humanity could just be pulling a fast one and has been faking this shit for the last several hundred thousand years.

Emotions can be studied scientifically.  MRIs work well to detect changes in emotion.

And I will add that there is a difference between "getting cheated on by your partner or having your face split open by a shovel".  One hurts more.

Dom already explained that regarding dopamine.  I was adding that that level of investigation isn't needed unless you are willing to believe there are no causes for any emotions.
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